21K, New Engine

[DonFitzwater]

More rumors and no proof. Nothing new in this thread and still no charges filed.

 

[TCDiesel]

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCOD...13-title42-chap85-subchapII-partA-sec7522.htm


Case No. 17-MD-02777-EMC Is the SanFran CA Civil case... I don't put any Merit in this Litigation.

 

[SmokinJoe]

Go try to order one, you can't. Then try to find a Dodge dealer selling a used one on the lot... They all go to auction for some strange reason...

 

[VernDiesel]

TC said "If you going to keep it in long term ownership You should tune." Wow that was four years in coming.

PPEI and GDE both have an ECM level tune. Neither has ever been promoted as any kind of salvation to my knowledge but rather as a smart investment for long term ownership. To turn off the EGR and better manage the regens as well as the other benefits for improved operation. Likely reducing maintenance and increasing the odds of better longevity. Having owned an ED since early on with high miles and a tune if I was ordering a new 2018 ED today and considering what I have seen both in what the tunes have done and how limited the practical risk of loss of warranty is. I would buy a tune asap after taking delivery.

My original engine pushed a head gasket out at 371k. I was lucky in that I was able to source and have a new one swapped into my truck inside a week. Complete engine including fuel pump turbo etc 24 month unlimited mileage warranty. I paid $5,500 plus basic R&R book hours runs about $1500 non dealership rates. Seems the guys on the other forum with new 18 EDs have mostly been going with a tune early as possible. That said I don't think it is any kind of requirement. Friend and former co-worker Steve bought his new never kept box stock had no issues and then had health issues that forced him to sell it at 214,000.

 

[17EcoRod]

As to the hero/zero engine....

Just got mine back from the dealer with a new engine after 27 days in the shop. 2017 RAM (manufactured 11/17, purchased new in May '18) with spun rod bearing at just shy of 6900 miles. Didn't even make it to its first oil change.

 

[DonFitzwater]

As to the hero/zero engine....

Just got mine back from the dealer with a new engine after 27 days in the shop. 2017 RAM (manufactured 11/17, purchased new in May '18) with spun rod bearing at just shy of 6900 miles. Didn't even make it to its first oil change.

I bought an 06 2500 with a Cummins and it also spun a rod bearing while being unloaded from the transport truck. That’s how an engine is suppose to fail, right away!

17ecorod, do you have a decent dealer service department?

 

[17EcoRod]

I bought an 06 2500 with a Cummins and it also spun a rod bearing while being unloaded from the transport truck. That’s how an engine is suppose to fail, right away!

17ecorod, do you have a decent dealer service department?

No problems with the dealer/service dept. at all. Put me in a new '19 Hemi (although, base model vinyl quad cab vs. my crew) immediately. They kept me posted on status without having to hound them, and it doesn't appear any additional damage to vehicle was done in the process (a problem I've had multiple times at a different dealer in the past). Also, did 4 recalls while it was there, including one that wasn't announced until after it was already in the shop. Very pleasant to deal with.

 

[TCDiesel]

17EcoRod, Do OAs on new engine, Consider tuning to shut down the EGR on the 3.0....My 3.0 just had another $2500.00 Repair , Up till now My Engine has received close to $5K in Warranty cost repairs 3.0 .....In 43K Miles.

Don C'mon 2006 VS 2017 QC, Ok lets compare 2016 3.0VM Production 2440-2600 Eco's produce 220-260 PM (Per Month) Engine failures ( Rotating Mass) for months in 2016,
Cummins failure's for Rotating Mass for all their 6.7 Built 1- Per 3000-5000 built PM ,You are 400 times more likely to have Rotating Mass failure in the 3.0 VS 6.7.

 

[DonFitzwater]

17EcoRod, Do OAs on new engine, Consider tuning to shut down the EGR on the 3.0....My 3.0 just had another $2500.00 Repair , Up till now My Engine has received close to $5K in Warranty cost repairs 3.0 .....In 43K Miles.

Don C'mon 2006 VS 2017 QC, Ok lets compare 2016 3.0VM Production 2440-2600 Eco's produce 220-260 PM (Per Month) Engine failures ( Rotating Mass) for months in 2016,
Cummins failure's for Rotating Mass for all their 6.7 Built 1- Per 3000-5000 built PM ,You are 400 times more likely to have Rotating Mass failure in the 3.0 VS 6.7.

I've never owned an Ecodiesel.....yet, so I have nothing to compare besides my Cummins failure when new........which I would say is extremely rare. The failed Cummins was most certainly an anomaly. I've owned at least 16 Dodge/Ram/Cummins trucks and that 06 being blown up on the auto-hauler was certainly odd. Now, let's discuss my Ford ownership for moment to put some more perspective into the situation: One 2011 F350 with a 6.7 Powerstroke. It had three turbos and two engines by 10,756 miles. That sir is poor reliability.

 

[Miller]

Any up to date figures? As my 15 has blown with 78k on it!!!!!

 

[Bnks334]

17EcoRod, Do OAs on new engine, Consider tuning to shut down the EGR on the 3.0....My 3.0 just had another $2500.00 Repair , Up till now My Engine has received close to $5K in Warranty cost repairs 3.0 .....In 43K Miles.

Don C'mon 2006 VS 2017 QC, Ok lets compare 2016 3.0VM Production 2440-2600 Eco's produce 220-260 PM (Per Month) Engine failures ( Rotating Mass) for months in 2016,
Cummins failure's for Rotating Mass for all their 6.7 Built 1- Per 3000-5000 built PM ,You are 400 times more likely to have Rotating Mass failure in the 3.0 VS 6.7.

You seem to be trying to provide decently useful information, but, I agree with some of the others that it doesnt seem that you actually understand the info that you're relaying. Your posts come off as rambling and exaggeration. I own two inline 6 turbos... an ecodiesel and a bmw 135i. We have the same threads like this on the bmw forums... people rambling about things they dont understand.

Your math is off by several decimal places. It is not 400x more likely to have rod bearing failure in an ecodiesel over a Cummins. Please revisit your posts and fix your math. After you fix the math, please then reconsider the tone in which you write because your posts arent as factually representative as you infer they are. It's downright misleading even if there is some underlying truth to what your saying. You are spewing numbers extremely loosely.

Reality is that every engine fails. People with blown engines then gather on forums and blow things out of proportion. It's comical. These threads even exist on Toyota Camry forums!!! Beware of that evil Toyota death knock!

Diesel engines are hard on oil. Change it often. This is not the car to buy if you plan to do 15k mile oil changes. Fuel dilution is a real issue. Especially so for cars that do a lot of stop/go and dont get the oil up to adequate temperature to burn off fuel frequently enough. Hence, why id recommend shorter than factory oil change intervals. It might work for the statistical 90% of owners but you might just be one of those 10% people that ends of with fuel diluted oil and a spun bearing. To say there is some quality control cover up is just downright tinfoil hat talk though. Modern engine manufacturing is several decimal places more precise than the average joe can even measure in their garage with cheap guages. Manufacturing defects do occur but I doubt that it correlates at all to rod bearing failures. You implying as much while providing zero actual substantive evidence (or even theory) isn't helping anyone.

Bearing issues aside, there is underlying truth to the emissions related information as well. The class action was approved. It is all spelled out now as to what exactly occurred. Apparently FCA failed to disclose some emissions related ecu logic. Like, shutting down of egr during certain cruise situations. This failure to disclose is the root cause of the epa accusations of elevated emissions. .. the fix is out and it's a software update. The specific logic doesnt seem to imply that fca was trying to cheat anything, rather, they just weren't being 100% transparent as to what their emissions related equipment was doing.

So yeah, reading through your statement I felt compelled to make an account just to point out that what your saying really doesnt make much sense. I get it though, you've seen a few failures first hand and now you're convinced there is something wrong. Again, reality is the failure rate is relatively low and the failures modes have such a large didisparity that there is no underlying trend you can even point out. Youre not helping anyone by posting unsubstantiated claims of quality control issues in every single thread... just scaring people. Drive your cars and enjoy them. This generation of cherokees are some of the most well put together vehicles on the market. Stop the fearmongering.

 

[TCDiesel]

LMBO......at Your cheerleading.

The industry standard is 1 per 1000min so here's your math, that's 1 per 1000 rotating mass failure ,Most makers randomly pull from the line,test until it fails tare down and inspect, VM the rats nest is 5 years into the same failure on the rotating mass.

You explanation of FCA is double laughable, I see you moral code doesn't comprehend lying/cheating

VM/FCA Max production was 2600 Eco Per-month the failures climb to 260 late in 2016 that's 10.% VS .1min and the actual VM VS 6.7/5.9 10.% to .05.

 

[Bnks334]

View attachment 113958 LMBO......at Your cheerleading.

The industry standard is 1 per 1000min so here's your math, that's 1 per 1000 rotating mass failure ,Most makers randomly pull from the line,test until it fails tare down and inspect, VM the rats nest is 5 years into the same failure on the rotating mass.

You explanation of FCA is double laughable, I see you moral code doesn't comprehend lying/cheating

VM/FCA Max production was 2600 Eco Per-month the failures climb to 260 late in 2016 that's 10.% VS .1min and the actual VM VS 6.7/5.9 10.% to .05.

As others have pointed out, you can't compare CURRENT production rate/month to the average failure rate per month. There is 0 statistical relationship there. You have literally grabbed numbers out of thin air and then drawn completely illogical statistical comparisons from those made up numbers. Sad to see people on this forum have supported your nonsense rather than question it...

Morals? You are completely blowing this out of proportion. A failure to disclose dme logic that had 0 impact on the actual testing the EPA performs is a far cry from intentionally cheating emissions requirements like VW was caught doing.

Still waiting for you to provide ANY tangible proof of this alleged VM quality control issue you keep spouting on about... Like I've already said, provide something tangible if you actually want to be useful. Otherwise you're just being a "fake news" alarmist sensationalizing every little tidbit of information you have and don't understand.

Again with your numbers... wtf is this even supposed to mean lmao:

that's 10.% VS .1min and the actual VM VS 6.7/5.9 10.% to .05.

Rotating mass failure? Air Conditioning failures? AND DUE TO WHAT? 95% of those failures could be from users putting windshield wiper fluid in their engines for all we know. VM rats nest? Apparently you've never seen the inside of a manufacturing plant before.

 

[TCDiesel]

Its People like YOU Bnks334 that are blind to the facts , Your the guy who would Question any man that stated he smelled a sunk , you would disagree that its a chicken.

You have 0 evidence to support your cheerleading. Its people like you Bnks334 that FCA behaves they way they have concerning the 3.0.

My check is on its way and My 3.0 is gone FCA paid handsomely to keep My happy.

By the Way I'm a former Dodge Franchise owner. Vested heavily into FCA products. But I'm not blind to tears and pain many 3.0 owners have suffered in what's going down in History as the worst overseas power plant to EVER makes in way into a truck.

 

[Bnks334]

Your the guy who would Question any man that stated he smelled a sunk , you would disagree that its a chicken.

What does this mean? I can't follow your rambling... a skunk isn't a chicken.

You have 0 evidence to support your cheerleading. Its people like you Bnks334 that FCA behaves they way they have concerning the 3.0.

What? This engine was awarded several years in a row as a top 10 engine. It's got a forged crank with 2.6" journals, 14mm head studs, single-piece bed-plate with 12mm main bolts, DOHC aluminum head (498lb total engine weight). This engine is TANK and comes highly regarded in every vehicle is has been put in. Soccer moms blowing them up because they put regular gasoline into them doesn't mean there is massive VM quality control issues and either does a class action lawsuit over fine print EPA violations. That is just opinionated and unsubstantiated claims on your part backed by fake statistics. My statement that it's a great engine, and the jeep is the most versatile car in its segment, is backed by countless reviewers and awards.

My check is on its way and My 3.0 is gone FCA paid handsomely to keep My happy.

Yes, they are cutting us all checks thanks to people like you. yes, I thank you for that because I get one too! You successfully helped devalue your own car. Congrats man. Take your measly check and sell your eco-diesel for a huge loss lmao. I'm keeping mine because it's FANTASTIC. Double win for me

You keep bringing up emissions, you realize the EPA's nonsense is the reason why manufacturers are being forced to run tighter tolerance engines with thinner oils and more emissions logic recirculating oil and blow-by gasses back into the combustion chamber, right? All things that reduce the lifespan of the modern engine. Oh and those 12k mile oil changes on a DIESEL is crazy (to improve the engines EPA impact score). The move to lead-free bearings... the list goes on all in the last decade. This is an industry wide issue. Audi, BMW, Mercedes, VW, every car manufacturer on the planet has been revising engines to meet EU5 emissions and now EU6. Best part is that the EPA regulations getting tighter are due to LOBBYING not actual intentions on cleaning up the environment.

By the Way I'm a former Dodge Franchise owner. Vested heavily into FCA products. But I'm not blind to tears and pain many 3.0 owners have suffered in what's going down in History as the worst overseas power plant to EVER makes in way into a truck.

Dodge franchise owner? cool story bro. You know there is a stereotype out there that used cars sale-man are some of the dumbest and scummiest people on the planet... your posts and completely flawed statistics are evidence that stereotype might have a basis in reality. Is that how you sold cars too? Just made up numbers and made all sorts of unsubstantiated and exaggerated claims? Sounds pretty typical.

You are absolutely clueless if you think this is a bad power-train. Do you even know who makes the transmissions they mated these engine to? Literally the the best line of transmissions on the market... See comments about the engine above. The only place you can find anything negative about it is on forums from people like you LOL. Try owning a high mileage direct injected turbo BMW. You know of the tears of Camry owners who wanted to be cool by buying a Jeep and then got up-sold on a Diesel without having any clue how to maintain a car... 15 year olds buy BMW's all the time and shed the same tears "omg my 120k mile 11 year old bmw needs new injectors. I can;t afford $200 a piece!" "what a **** car." Welcome to direct injection, kid.

The demand for the eco-diesel is bringing it back for 2020... that's how "bad" it is.

 

[jhenderson]

Mr, you’d better do a little research before before accusing TC of lying. You’re looking more and more foolish as you post. He’s got more knowledge about these trucks and the inner workings of FCA than you’ll ever have. You might try going to his website for a little education.

 

[Bnks334]

Mr, you’d better do a little research before before accusing TC of lying. You’re looking more and more foolish as you post. He’s got more knowledge about these trucks and the inner workings of FCA than you’ll ever have. You might try going to his website for a little education.

I don't care who he is or what you THINK he knows. Nothing he is saying is correct. His numbers make 0 logical sense. That is just basic fact. You don't need to know anything about cars to know that is not how statistics work. You can't compare unknown failure statistics to monthly sales statistics and make inferences about an engines reliability.

I have rebuilt more in-line 6 engines than probably anyone posting on these forums. You'll question me but won't question the guy pulling numbers out of his ass for some local dealership that have 0 meaning in the grand scheme of things? OK.

Get back to me when you've built an engine and actually understand how stout and over-built these engines are.

 

[TCDiesel]

Bnks334, I doubt you own the truck You claim to love so Much....You can PM your VIN/info or give it to me over the phone.

Just to make matters clear to Ya Bnks334, I condemn the Engine... were is it I said anything ( Negative) about the rest of the truck?

BS the entire power plant intake, EGR, cooling, and Now they are catching on fire weekly. Check out all the complaints on AEM. It may be well designed until VM rat nest assembles the unit, it makes no different how stout when the production kills it with QC.

 

[TCDiesel]

I have power plants in My Shop that make 3000HP.........Look at My Avatar WHO do you think built that engine.

 

[TCDiesel]

Here's My 2019 If I dislike FCA why would I buy another, I have GM, and FCA products in my fleet of Trucks and the 2019 Hemi out pulls the VM 3.0 and the Hemi's mileage is stellar. Read My HC posting

https://www.ecodieselram.com/forum/...el-with-the-ecodiesel-option.3063/#post-21530

https://www.ecodieselram.com/forum/...-buying-2020-ecodiesel.3050/page-2#post-21607
post 28

https://www.ecodieselram.com/forum/...eco-diesel-burst-into-flames.3054/#post-21456