370 injector gasket thickness?

[HEMI®Dart]

drawson,

What thickness washers do you have under the 370's?

Any knocking like Joe D has?

 

[drawson]

I am running the small ones . 02. NO knocking just clutch slipping maybe after the clutch hold there will be a problem. I have the other washers and will change after Joe does his Dynoing.

 

[R.ebel]

Drawson,

By your signature I see we both have the same set-up except for the injector sealing washers and the Psychotty system.



How are your egt's? I got around to installing my 16cm housing and with my #11 plate slid back 1/32", temps will exceed 1300 in 4th and 5th if I stay in it long enough on hills, temps not to wild... liveable.



After the 16cm housing was put on I got up the nerve to move my fuel plate forward to the stock posistion(was concerned that my Centerforce clutch might start slipping). The midrange is incredible and I love it! but egt temps are out of control, in 4th and 5th above 2250rpm the egt's hit 1300 and climb like crazy. The good news is that the Centerforce clutch held the torque.



Was wondering what your egt experience has been with the thin washers and Psychotty TIA

 

[drawson]

I have not had aproblem with EGTs at all with this set up as of yet, but my clutch isn't holding. Your right on the money about the mid range it is incredible. The Psycotty system is worth about 150 deg of EGT drop.

I am sure that after I get clutched that I will be able to push the EGT through the roof, but by that time I'll be running fast than I should be with the load.

The injectors and the 16 CM2 housing really have turned my truck on BIG TIME #ad
#ad


------------------
EAT'M UP
97 2500 Club 4X4 3. 54, Forrest Green/Driftwood, LSD 5 speed, & Psychotty Air System, TST #11, 370 HP injectors, timing at 16 deg. , 16CM2 housing, AFC spring kit, Geno's Exhaust Blanket, TST EGT gauge & 0-60 boost gauge in A Pillar, Cat-be-gone, 4" Dynomax Bullet muffler, Crome 4" turn down, Rad fan removed, AmsOil Through out, Geno's trans filter kit, AmsOil Bypass system, Lund Winter front, Leer Cab Level Shell Driftwood , 255/85R16, Dyno'd 342 HP pre injectors & turbo housing *NRA/USPSA member and proud of it*

 

[dieselburner]

Originally posted by drawson:
I am running the small ones . 02. NO knocking just clutch slipping maybe after the clutch hold there will be a problem. I have the other washers and will change after Joe does his Dynoing.

OK lets here it. Has there been a consensus yet on which gasket thickness is the best to run under the 370's? I will be adding larger delivery valves tomorrow and that will be an excellent time to change the seals under the injectors. I have a very slight knock which only occurs at low rpm and it sounds like Joe is addressing that with his testing? Thanks in advance.

------------------
1998 2500 Quad Cab, 12V, 5spd, 4x4, HD Transfer Case, 370HP Diamond B Injectors, #4 TST, 16cm2 Housing, AFC Spring Kit, BD Governor Spring Kit and other governor modifications, Walker Muffler, 285/75-16 BFG AT's, Stainless Steel Tube Steps, Reese Fifth Wheel Hitch, Leather, CD, LSD Dana 80 Rear, 60 Front, Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch, Rancho RS9000 Shocks, Rancho Steering Stabilizer, ATS Exhaust Manifold, Psychotty Air Induction, BD Exhaust Brake

 

[R.ebel]

dieselburner,

As far as I know I'm the only one using the medium sealing washers under the 370's. I have not detected any engine knock whatsoever. However my pump timing is still stock which I hope to remedy soon. It will be interesting to hear from J. Donnelly after he completes his testing.

 

[Koa Man]

Rebel,
I too am probably running the "med" washers. I just used the ones that were
on them in the package I got from Joe D.
I did not notice the instructions to use
the thin washers until AFTER I installed
the injectors. At that point I said the
heck with it and tried the truck out. It
ran real good with a huge increase in
power so I just left it. After reading
this thread, I am beginning to feel better
about it. I kept wondering if I was
"losing" about 50hp running the thicker
washers. It appears that it may not make
much difference which ones you use.

 

[R.ebel]

KoaMan,
Was wondering what your egt's are like during a hard pull (full throttle in the upper gears) and do you have your timing advanced any from stock? TIA

 

[Koa Man]

Rebel,
My timing is still stock, although I want to try it at 14. 5 to 15. 0 My EGTs are not bad if I have O/D off, even pulling 6% grades with a GCVW of 15-16K. Easily controllable. If I run that same grade with O/D on, it gets too high and I have to keep backing off the throttle to the point where it is going slower than with O/D off. I need to get a 16cm2 housing on there. That is my next planned modification, although that Majestic turbo is getting my attention.

 

[drawson]

Koa Man, What size turbo are you running?

 

[Koa Man]

Running stock turbo. 12cm2.

 

[Piers]

The reason for the . 020 washers is emmisions. You get a cleaner burn with the injector a little closer to the piston. Moving the injector . 040 further out raises the smoke level a bit. As for burning up a piston if the injector is too close, you stand a better chance of burning it up with the injector further out as the spray pattern hits the top of the piston rather than the combustion bowl. But niether the . 020 or the . 060 washer will cause a piston meltdown problem... too much fuel does, or at least too much fuel for too long of time will. If ya want to play with big fueling watch your egt's

------------------
Piers, BD engine R&D

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Another chapter to that story is that the cleaner burn may also mean more of the fuel is burned = more hp. If I get a chance to try different washer thicknesses on the dyno, I will be looking to see if hp is higher. If not, look at smoke for daily driveability. If hp and driveability are the same, the thicker washer might be "safer" for high fueling levels. This is a fine tuning issue. It is unfortunate that the big guns who are selling so many high performance injectors through group purchases, etc. are not helping BD/Piers and me with some research of their own. Understand that BD cannot fund research just to give another company all the sales. Nor can they/we develop new products for other companies who are not adding value themselves.

 

[Koa Man]

If using the thinner washers will lessen smoke, then I will probably give it a try when I feel energetic enough or get bored on a weekend. Since I installed the stack exhaust the smoke is not much of a problem now. I don't see cars dropping way behind me to avoid smoke like before. BTW Piers, I was bummed out reading about you selling that '98 for under $25k. I am looking for a '98 QC, 5 spd. here but would have bought your auto without a 2nd thought.

 

[R.ebel]

Joe and Piers,
First off I'd like to thank you both for your input on this fine tuning issue #ad
#ad
you guy are the masters of 12 Valves and your knowledge base truely astounds me.

1st Question, what is the max allowable egt you will tolerate for a short duration of a few seconds? I understand that 1300*F in the exhaust manifold (pre-turbo) is the maximum allowable for continuous operation. What about an occasional drag race with temps around 1400-1500*F?

2nd question, will a setup that provides for a cleaner burn (less smoke), with the level of fueling remaining the same have lower egt's?

 

[My 6 Eats V8's Old File]

I can attest to having over 1700 for short burts, or should I say pulls. No problems at 135k of hard use. #ad

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The higher the egt, the shorter the time it should be allowed. Also the more attention that should be given to removing sources of hot spots that could induce cracking. Hence head porting, 3 angle valve job, etc. Any time you go over 1300, put some $ into the cylinder head and piston fund for future needs #ad

 

[R.ebel]

My 6 eats V8's,

#ad



1,700*F+ ,WOW that's TOASTY

Brass monkeys must envy you #ad
It amazes me that these engines can take so much punishment and keep on ticken #ad


[This message has been edited by R. ebel (edited 02-05-2001). ]

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Thin. (0. 02" thick). If you got the right 370s from the right place, you already have them #ad

 

[bholcomb]

Is it necessary to replace the copper gaskets on the return line manifold?

Brian