3K later, a ton of work and dead pedal is back.

[petersonj]

Here is my new issue. With the key on, and on the original ECM, the fuel pump would come on for 5 ish seconds and then shut off till the engine fired. Then 15 psi running and no issues. The new ECM, the first run of the fuel pump is at most 1 second.

The new ECM is performing normal. The FSM states,

"The transfer pump is self-priming: When the key is
first turned on (without cranking engine), the pump
will operate for approximately 1/4 second and then
shut off. The pump will also operate for up to 25 sec-
onds after the starter is engaged, and then disen-
gaged and the engine is not running. The pump
shuts off immediately if the key is on and the engine
stops running."

Something that I have always wondered. If (sounds more like when) you have the dead pedal problem again, try using cruise control if you can. The reasoning behind this is that the cruise control on a manual transmission truck uses only the ECM for control. It does not use input from the APPS.

I had the dead pedal issue only once - it turned out to be the APPS. But, I had to drive about 30 miles with the dead pedal occurring every couple of minutes. I didn't think of it at the time, but I should have tried using cruise control to see if the symptoms would have gone away.

What part of Alaska did you go to? I grew up in Fairbanks.

I hope things will be getting better for you.

- John

 

[JeepBuilder]

Thank you guys. I did lose a wonderful companion. Each day is an opportunity for something good. So I am trying to see them.
Funny my original ECM ran the pump for 5 seconds. I thought that was normal. What a relief to know the replacement is functioning like normal and as expected. And I will sure try the cruise control. If it continues. Deep down I am sick of this problem and hope I really did eliminate it with the different ECM. Great suggestion and appreciated on the CC. I will try the CC next time.

The guy who sold me the truck wants to buy it back... I want to keep it. But funny anyways...

I go to Juneau Alaska on August 11th. Liz has a sister there, Mom is buried there, a brother in Fairbanks, brother in Wasilla, and a brother in Sitka. All most outstanding and wonderful people. Liz will be interned in a vault at the Catholic shrine 20 miles north of Juneau on Sat the 13th. So I have not been back to AK yet. I will see them all shortly. I could not do anything with the covid madness going on. I am eager to put this behind me. I hope that answers the question. I have never been known for a short explanation...

I am taking the Dodgemahal and camper on a 2 hour drive shortly. For a test run. Hoping for the best here....

 

[SnoKing]

If you turn the key on pump runs for 3 seconds, bump the starter(not started) and it runs for 27 seconds. That is how you bleed air out when changing filters. 4 or 5 more bumps, until your fuel pressure gauge shows pressure. No fuel pressure gauge = shame on you. Every 24V should have one.

 

[JeepBuilder]

I have always had a fuel pressure gauge. I typically run about 15-16 PSI. I get the 1/4 second pump run with the key on now. I just completed a 145 mile run. It is running smoother than I can ever remember. And I had a pretty noticeable stumble at idle that I thought were bad injectors. The stumble is gone and it idles very steady and smooth. The APPS was new from Geno's recently. I might have finally found the problem. I guess I will see.

 

[SnoKing]

I am bringing this thread back to life. My dead pedal has returned. Backing up some... I had to read this thread again for a refresher. Reading about my wife Liz and my covid sickness was hard. We caught it again a month later ( a third time) and my beloved wife and best friend died on October 19th here at home. I too was so sick I did not realize she was dying. I miss her so very much. I am trying to move forward. My home is for sale and nothing is happening there. I have never been on such a difficult path. I fly her remains to Alaska next month to put her to rest.
I put the camper on the truck Friday to go up to the last place we were together. A campground up at Priest Lake where we went to try and get well after the August of 2021 two week sickness. It was one of our favorite places. A very beautiful place. I took some of her ashes there.
About half way there the truck slowly started dead pedaling again. After all the work I did I could not believe it. I don't seem to be having much patience or luck lately. I turned around and made it home bucking the whole way back. I went and retrieved the used ECM I bought and had reflashed to my VIN and installed it. Not wanting to give up I went up to the campground late in the day anyway. It ran well and did not dead pedal. I am still skeptical that my dead pedal is really gone since it is so random. I also want to claim that it was not my edge tuner. Even though the Edge repair ticket claimed a bad chip, and a good repair, it was not the edge tuner. I have not reinstalled the tuner. I had about 650 miles on the old ECM and all the new parts with no hiccups till now.

Here is my new issue. With the key on, and on the original ECM, the fuel pump would come on for 5 ish seconds and then shut off till the engine fired. Then 15 psi running and no issues. The new ECM, the first run of the fuel pump is at most 1 second. The truck starts fine and runs fine at 15 PSI. Is the ECM swap responsible for this change? Some of my troubleshooting clarity has been compromised from the long term covid fog. And next month will be 1 year of no taste and smell. I am frustrated to say the least. Since the truck runs well and starts fine, Should I be concerned about the reduced pump prime time? Can I correct it back to 5 seconds some how?

I walked in the same shoes on July 5th 2021, lost my DW of 40 years to ALS. ALS is a nasty disease, and I know she is in a better place, however it hurts a lot. She was my partner in everything we did. We called her Miss HGTV, and now she is re-decorating heaven. Hang in there, stay busy and remember the good times.

 

[JeepBuilder]

I walked in the same shoes on July 5th 2021, lost my DW of 40 years to ALS. ALS is a nasty disease, and I know she is in a better place, however it hurts a lot. She was my partner in everything we did. We called her Miss HGTV, and now she is re-decorating heaven. Hang in there, stay busy and remember the good times.

Snoking, So you just passed your 1st anniversary. I am sorry you lost her. 40 years is a long time to get to know a person. To bond with them and have them be your other half to the complete union you both made up together. I am sorry. I truly know how it feels. I was feeling pretty sorry for myself for not seeing the decline to her death. Liz herself lost her two twin girls to car accidents. Not one but two losses. She overcame it. So I keep telling myself to buck up and realize this has been going on for a very long time. For millions of people. So my feelings are nothing compared to what she and your wife gained. They are safe, free of earth based burdens, and waiting for us. So yes remember the good times. As Liz used to say... This too shall pass and do the next right thing.
Quite a club we have joined.... Good times and memories... Thank you Snoking...

 

[Diesel Gunner]

My condolences, JeepBuilder. The Lord has blessed me with a wife for 43 years. Eleven years ago she died (Brain Aneurism) sitting right next to me while we were in a meeting with our portfolio manager. I picked her up out of the chair and began CPR the old school way and God gave her back to me. Thirty-four days in the hospital (28 in ICU and 6 in a regular room) and she has no deficiencies. Those were what I thought were tough days. My heart feels for you, Brother. Hang in there and keep the Faith. I found out that it does get me through. Psalm 118:5. Got it tattooed on my arm. The only one I have in 66 years.

 

[JeepBuilder]

I just

My condolences, JeepBuilder. The Lord has blessed me with a wife for 43 years. Eleven years ago she died (Brain Aneurism) sitting right next to me while we were in a meeting with our portfolio manager. I picked her up out of the chair and began CPR the old school way and God gave her back to me. Thirty-four days in the hospital (28 in ICU and 6 in a regular room) and she has no deficiencies. Those were what I thought were tough days. My heart feels for you, Brother. Hang in there and keep the Faith. I found out that it does get me through. Psalm 118:5. Got it tattooed on my arm. The only one I have in 66 years.

I just read Psalm 118:5 When hard pressed, I cried to the Lord. He brought me into a spacious place.
I tried to revive Liz. She yelled my name and woke me up when she died. I was so sick I did not get up for about 20 minutes. I found her on the sofa and she was blue. I was to weak to do effective CPR. But she was gone already. It took the sherriff and funeral home 1 hour and 45 minutes to come get her. I sat and looked at her memorizing every piece of that image. She has let me know very clearly she is OK and with God. Very clearly.
Liz and I were reading the bible every day. To try and grow our faith. The best memories ever were sitting in the camper, after a day of exploring on the quad, doing a little kayaking and poking a stick at a camp fire, we would get out our home made ice cream and read the bible before going to bed. I remember sitting there looking at her and feeling the most gratitude and joy in my heart ever. I had my girl of my dreams. Right there... I have had to turn to God to get me through. It is getting better. And hearing people speak out about their trials with these things helps me a lot. I know I don't walk this path alone. I know this is supposed to be a thread on a dead pedal problem. But these messages have a purpose. I think that living here in the woods alone has been particularly difficult. I don't have any family left. I have a few here but they have lives to live. This last winter was beyond grueling sitting here alone watching the snow fall. But I made it. I have my home on the market. I did find a church in Wenatchee wa that really sings to me. I am trying to go there despite hating Wa state and the drunk on power governor Inslee. I guess I will see what happens. Maybe I am to stay here. I don't know.. It helps to talk about it. I am late to go up and cut firewood. I am grateful for these messages you guys make time for. Grateful as heck... I have been humbled...

 

[JeepBuilder]

My truck is running better and idling better than ever. I think is was indeed the ECM. I will keep driving it despite 6 bucks a gallon. I need to know it is reliable. I have a good feeling here. Just as a refresher for anyone reading this later. The Used ECM got flashed to my VIN by a company called 1 Engine Control. I was leary of them but they came through. Glad for this outcome.

 

[Timd32]

Just catching up on your thread, sorry to hear about your wife. Will keep you in our prayers.

Glad to hear you have made progress on the truck.

 

[JeepBuilder]

Just catching up on your thread, sorry to hear about your wife. Will keep you in our prayers.

Glad to hear you have made progress on the truck.

Thank you Timd32. Each day is a new one and offers the possibility of something good. Sometimes that is hard to remember. But it is there for the taking... Thanks for the prayers. That was all I had at some points. It nevers fails me.

 

[JeepBuilder]

So the dead pedal has returned. I am not sure what to do next. I drove about 200 miles and it kicked in hard. Lots of bucking and dead pedal. I did make it home using cruise control on the return trip a couple days later. A 4 hour drive. Thank you pertersonJ...
I did read of people having dead pedal while on cruise. But I got home... I don't trust this truck. I have replaced the VP44, and I just called OFI to ask if they could check the pump out. They said send it in, but I bet that is a waste of time. I will send it in after I check everything I should. I see thousands of Rams have had this problem. And funny there does not seem people posting what fixes it. I have replaced just about everything involved. Cleaned and sealed grounds, replaced the battery terminal ends, apps, ECM, removed the edge tuner. I did check AC voltage and it was below .05 but I think I will do that again. I do have a replacement alternator in the box though. What am I missing that I could do? My home is for sale and I need this truck to pull trailers on the same run I just did that I had dead pedal on. I am guessing 10-12 trips. I have been wanting to have a look through the manuals to see what the engine needs to run. One of these things is randomly failing. I am short on time. And tired of this to no end. I am wondering if this is a bad wire or connector pin somewhere. I would take any suggestion given.

 

[Chief USA]

So sorry to learn of the passing of your wife JeepBuilder. I cannot begin to imagine the sense of loss you are enduring. If you were closer, I would send you to my son-in-laws shop in Tennessee and have him take a look at your truck. He is good. Nuf said. If you haven't already, have you tried contacting Mike Nelson over on Mopar1973man? Mike has developed a LOT of knowledge and experience on these trucks. He may be able to help you out with cornering the gremlins. God bless and keep the faith.

 

[JeepBuilder]

Thank you for the words on Liz. I miss that girl. She was perfect for me. Why I am selling and needing to go. So funny I was just reading on mopar1973man's site. I found some interesting info on changing the grounds and getting the wires separated from the alternator. About a 2 hour mod and I guess it really helps eliminate the possible AC interference. Also seeing that if it were an apps issue it would throw a code. I wonder what Oregon Fuel Injection uses for a PSG on top of the VP44. A reman unit? A tested used unit? I hope for the cost it was a fully modern unit without the solder issues. I suppose another call may be in order. I had been thinking today I should pull the ECM connector and see about removing the terminals one by one and lightly crimping them. I have all the terminal removal tools. I need a plan first though. My receipt from OFI was 2016.63 for a tuner ready (slotted rotor head for the excess pressures generated by a tuner) VP44 pump. I see I was charged 400 for a core. Probably because mine was tuner tapped. I may remove it yet but I was hoping for that to be a last resort. Thanks for the suggestion for the son in law. I wish I were closer too.

 

[JeepBuilder]

This was brought up earlier in this thread years ago. And it crossed my mind before reading what I just did at Mopar1973man. I have my Fass pump running at 15 PSI. I see 10-12 PSI under WOT. I am reading that under WOT it should not be below 15 because of the bypass closing at 14 PSI. Meaning it is no longer cooling the PSG down. So I will bump my fuel pressure to 17-18 PSI and check WOT to see if I am staying above 14 PSI. And I will do the ground modification that separates the grounds from the alternator charge wire. I just saw on page 1 I was at .08 I don't think I corrected that. So two more things I can do on this issue. I don't want to throw in the towel on this truck. But I'd take a 80's Chevy 3+3 long bed dually with a 12 valve conversion any day... This computer control is a PITA. I am curious if any other makes have dead pedal issues like the dodge's.

 

[Ozymandias]

Sure they do, everyone uses the same technique.

 

[petersonj]

I have my Fass pump running at 15 PSI. I see 10-12 PSI under WOT. I am reading that under WOT it should not be below 15 because of the bypass closing at 14 PSI. Meaning it is no longer cooling the PSG down.

The W-T ground wiring modification (on the MoparMan site) is a sound practice for eliminating a lot of electrical interference on the VP44 trucks. It could help with your dead pedal problem.

However, I strongly encourage you to not get caught up in the myth surrounding the operation of the 14 psi overflow valve inside the VP44 injection pump. The lift pump pressure has zero bearing on return fuel flow passing over the 14 psi overflow valve. There is a positive displacement vane pump (called a feed pump by Bosch) inside the VP44 that supplies all fuel flow needs for the injection pump, including fuel returning to the tank through the 14 psi overflow valve. The regulating valve for this feed pump is set for over 100 psi.

There were fuel return flow tests performed with a flow meter that document that there is always the same volume of fuel at a specific engine rpm returning to the tank regardless of lift pump pressure. These flow tests were documented in April of 2001 right here on the TDR by MoparMuscle and others. Repeated flow tests with different lift pumps and different lift pressures consistently showed no change in return flows of 18 gph at idle, 24 gph at cruise speed, and 30 gph at wide open throttle.

A couple of years ago, I even took the flow testing one step further. At engine idle I recorded 19 gph passing over the overflow valve and returning to tank. Lift pump pressure was 12 psi. I then performed the same test with a fuel line routed around the lift pump and with the lift pump electrically DISCONNECTED. The return fuel flow remained exactly the same at 19 gph.

If the myth regarding the 14 psi overflow valve operation were true, then my VP44 should have died years ago. My replacement VP44 covered by warranty in 2005 along with the in-tank lift pump retrofit (also covered by warranty) had only 6 psi at idle and 3 psi at wide open throttle. I drove that combination for over 150,000 miles, then I switched to a frame mounted lift pump. The in-tank lift pump was still working fine; I just wanted to be able to do a roadside replacement in an emergency. Anyway, the replacement VP44 has logged over 288,000 miles and the highest lift pump pressure it has ever seen is 12 psi.

Your lift pump pressures are fine just the way they are.

- John

 

[JeepBuilder]

OK, I am just reaching for anything I can. Not only do I want this problem to stop, I need this problem to stop. Thanks for the good detailed information.

 

[Road Dog]

I haven't read the entire thread but sorry for your loss. My occasional dead pedal had a different cause. After replacing the VP44 and APPS the problem was still there. It turns out a loose hose clamp at the fuel tank allowed air to get sucked into the fuel line (at WOT sometimes). That causes the VP44 to fault and go into limp mode for a few seconds. They're tiny bobbles but it's enough. Blue Chip Diesel has a test for that.

At least my VP44 has the latest upgrades.

 

[JeepBuilder]

Interesting and appreciated. I had the supply line get a cut in it from the cab pinching it. I cut it and put in a brass fitting and clamped it. Noting the fuel line seemed aged and stiff. It was probably put in with the Fass pump. It is blue. I think I will put new lines in and make sure that is not happening. I was reading Blue chips documentation last night. I saw that. The random surfacing of this dead pedal where it runs great for 600 miles then falls on itself for an hour is nuts. I will nail this sooner or later. I expect to get my home sold and that is when I need this truck to shine.