6 Speed Neutral Grind

[Cliffman]

OK all you oil gurus, here's one for ya.

Just installed a McLeod duel disk street version clutch in my 01 ETH about 2000 mile ago.

With the truck idling at a stand still, in neutral with the clutch engaged (clutch petal out) there’s a rather LOUD grinding noise coming from the transmission.

I love this clutch except for the "neutral grind". #ad


According to expert opinion the neutral grind is caused by the duel disk clutch not having springs (un-sprung hub) therefore causing the engine pulses or harmonics to travel through to the transmission gears. Apparently clutch springs act as a vibration dampener. When the clutch is disengaged (clutch petal pushed in) the noise goes away. The warmer the transmission oil gets the louder #ad
the noise gets. The noise is so loud, when I pull up to a group of people with the clutch disengaged and then put it in neutral and let out the clutch people say "What’s that noise #ad
. I wouldn’t mind so much except for the fact that I really like the sound of my Cummins purrrring #ad
and the neutral grind is almost as loud as my precious Cummins #ad


I just replaced the OEM oil with some Amsoil 5-30 and added 8 oz of Lucas oil additive and still no help #ad
.

So, how about it guys. Any suggestions #ad
.


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2001 Driftwood 3500 Quad Cab 4x4, Long Bed, 5. 9L HO Cummins Diesel (ETH), 6-Speed HD Manual (DEE) Loven the shift thing (Arrrrrh), 3:54, SLT+, 3. 54 Anti-Spin Axle, Camper Special Group, Trailer Tow Group, 18,000 LB 5th Wheel Hitch, Leather, Sliding Rear Window, BDs E-Brake, Rhino Liner (gray), Velvet ride shackles, cup smoothy, Power Edge box / EZ Box w/elbo, DD Stage III injectors, McLeod Dual Disk Clutch, K&N, SPA Gauges, Jardine Exhaust, 16cm turbo housing. Love the smell of diesel in the morning. Hope your watchen DC cuz every thing you see here is a big lie, Hehe.

 

[Mike Vonada]

Cliffman,
I will be watching this one. Wheeeeeew, that neutral grind is some kind of loud!! I do love the way it grabs tho! #ad
#ad
#ad


I was talking with Jim and he said that he thinks there is a way to drill and tap the transmission case further up and add more oil to the transmission. Looking down through the top the gears and not totally bathed in oil. I am running out there this wednesday to see what he has done.

 

[Motorhead]

Cliffman, this is normal as you have guessed in your post. I work at UPS and alot of our trucks sound the same. At UPS, we REALLY know how to torture test drive components. Our clutches are heavy duty styles and transmit noise thru the transmissions at idle. Did this noise occur before the clutch change? #ad

 

[Cliffman]

Hey Chris,

I'll be sure to keep an ear out the next time my UPS driver comes by LOL. I do understand that this noise is normal given my current set of circumstances. All things considered, I'm happy with this clutch #ad
. However, I will continue to pursue a fix to this neutral grind. What the heck, it can’t hurt. No neutral grind prior to McLeod clutch.


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2001 Driftwood 3500 Quad Cab 4x4, Long Bed, 5. 9L HO Cummins Diesel (ETH), 6-Speed HD Manual (DEE) Loven the shift thing (Arrrrrh), 3:54, SLT+, 3. 54 Anti-Spin Axle, Camper Special Group, Trailer Tow Group, 18,000 LB 5th Wheel Hitch, Leather, Sliding Rear Window, BDs E-Brake, Rhino Liner (gray), Velvet ride shackles, cup smoothy, Power Edge box / EZ Box w/elbo, DD Stage III injectors, McLeod Dual Disk Clutch, K&N, SPA Gauges, Jardine Exhaust, 16cm turbo housing. Love the smell of diesel in the morning. Hope your watchen DC cuz every thing you see here is a big lie, Hehe.

[This message has been edited by Cliffman (edited 12-11-2000). ]

 

[MikeR]

Are you really sure it's not throw-out bearing or pilot bushing noise? Wether the clutch pedal is in or out wouldn't make any difference on what type-or-how (over)full your transmission oil is.

-Mike

 

[Cliffman]

MikeR,

Most definitely not the throughout bearing #ad

 

[Bart Timothy]

Swap out ot a Sach's clutch. No neutral noises on my ETH/DEE.

 

[Cliffman]

Bart,

I considered the Sachs but decided against it because of the stiff petal pressure and the need for ceramic pucks to hold 400+ HP and over 800 ft. lbs. of torque. It's my understanding that the ceramic pucks are hard on the drive train and chatters quite a bit. Is this correct? How much HP and torque are you cranking out? If you’re under 700 ft. lbs of torque then it’s my understanding that the organic facing will hold. Do you have the organic facing or the pucks?

 

[My 6 Eats V8's Old File]

something for us higher powered to remember
THERE IS NO PERFECT CLUTCH FOR US
I wish this market was bigger to constitute a 3 or 5 disc clutch. #ad

 

[Cliffman]

Originally posted by My 6 Eats V8's:
something for us higher powered to remember

Hmmm, are we just talking trucks here LOL. I'm honored to be included in the same HP range as "My 6" #ad
. We should start an "over 400 HP club" #ad
#ad
. It's true though, the more HP your add the more radical (if you will) the truck becomes. Wouldn’t be nice to add 400+ HP and still have a smooth clutch, steady idle, smooooth acceleration in the higher RPM's and no smoke, NOT #ad
.



[This message has been edited by Cliffman (edited 12-12-2000). ]

 

[kevin1]

hey don't get to comfortable atop the hp mountian there boys we have been having some interesting discussions down at the shop possibly some big medicine coming in the near future only this will be drug free power LOL

 

[kevin1]

hey cliffman do you remember the part number for your clutch I ordered one and just remembered the input shaft is bigger on the 6 speed

 

[Bart Timothy]

I'm convinced thst we could all get together and agree to what would be the perfect clutch but given the physical limitations inside the bell housing, or the invention of some new magic lining material, it will have to be "different strokes for different folks". One thing I know for sure; it doesn't take much of a clutch to beat out that wimpy stock ETH unit.

What sold me on the Sachs was the quality, rugedness, and sprung hub. Joe D. had samples in his garage of all different kinds of clutches for these trucks. Chryslers tendancies seem to be moving toward more damper springs rather than less, or none. Joe had a stock disk sample which had 2 sets of springs! That's got to be saying something. There's simply not enough room inside the bell housing to use sprung hubs on a dual disk unit, so if you use one you stuck with sold hubs. Plus you've got to have further clutch pedal travel to get a clean disenguagement which is needed to keep from wearing out the syncros or getting the trans into gear.

At first, I didn't like the pedal pressure on my Sachs but I'm used to it now. Joe has the same cluch on his "Sickly", which has over 500 hp and no slippage, and his pedal pressure wasn't any greater than stock units. There's probably been some kind of a hydralic linkage change between '97 and now. If so, then the pedal pressure issue would be easy to fix.

I went with the brass pucks and medium spring. The clutch gets pretty sticky when it gets wamed up but the chatter is minimized using proper driveing techinique and would be helped further with a lighter pedal pressure. Getting the techinique mastered was no worse than leaning to shift the 6 speed soothly.

The hub is very beefy and out of some medium duty truck application. The organic lining is roughly twice as much as that on the stcok ETH unit. I believe using the oganic lining with the light spring (different spring rates are avialable) would be more than adiquate for 95% of the bombers out there and certainly with any bombed ETH without a modified injection pump (another story).

Most of all when I looked at the Sachs sitting next to all the other units, the quality and heft really stood out. It was head shoulders above the rest.

 

[My 6 Eats V8's Old File]

So WIZ whats up down in the ol #2 tractor shop?
I know its something good #ad

I wanna play too #ad

Did you guys go meet the twin turbo guru?

 

[kevin1]

Hey adam is your rig back together Pias is out of town so we need to wait till he gets back but we will next week

 

[Cliffman]

wiz1,

I had Jim Leonard purchase and install my McLeod. I think his prices are pretty competitive.

 

[My 6 Eats V8's Old File]

ALRIGHT, I finally got my rig back on the road. #ad

Wiz if you need help I'm getting pretty good at doing these clutches myself. Lets see somewere around 7 or more times on my truck now. I talked to Nowel yesterday said we're all to meet him next week when he returns uh?

 

[Cliffman]

Just talked to one of the engineers at Redline and I'm going to give their MT 70/90 a shot #ad
. Can’t use the Amsoil 70/90 because their friction modifier makes it hard for the syncro's to line up.

[This message has been edited by Cliffman (edited 12-15-2000). ]

 

[Sled Puller]

You are right! PLEASE do not use the Amsoil 75w-90 in the Six Speed!
I question the Redline 75-90, or any 75w-90 for this unit.
I don't think your problem is oil related, but it soon may be! #ad

Has to be in the clutch, and trying to band-aid the noise created by the clutch with thick oil, is mad science in my book!
JMHO.
Is anyone running the Mitchell clutch having these noises?

Gene

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1997 Cummins Dodge 4x4 Bombed & Amsoiled. Amsoil Premiere Direct Jobber, Member of: NRA Business Alliance, GLTDR, WANTED: Wrecked Dodges.
www.awdist.com

 

[kevin1]

I believe that clutch has a floating intermediate plate and that is what is causing the noise I may have a fix for it when mine shows up we will see