6 Speed Neutral Grind

[Cliffman]

I'm certainly not an expert on oil or transmissions. Everything that I've posted in this thread comes from what I conceder an "expert" on this subject. However, I could be mis-interputing what the experts are saying so here it is from the horse’s mouth. Quote from Jim Leonard "If your trucks clutch could hold the power with the springs you would
Hear the same rattle that you can hear in the 5sp because the springs
would be compressed all the way and they would not dampen the engine firing pulses. " Here, he’s talking about the “direct drive” rattle, 5th gear on 6th speed and 4th gear on 5th speed. In talking to Jim about the neutral grind or rattle (who I conceder an expert on this subject along with many others) he explained to me that the noise I’m hearing is the engine firing pulses rattling the transmission gears due to NO DAMPANING springs in the clutch (solid hub clutch). He also recommended changing oil to quite the noise. The OEM oil is not synthetic and its viscosity is that of 30 wt. using a synthetic 75/90 in two experts opinion (Jim and the engineer at Red Line) agree that this is a safe choice


[This message has been edited by Cliffman (edited 12-16-2000). ]

 

[Cliffman]

I have the SPA temp gauge installed and have a sensor in the transmission and the diff. I'm watching it like a hawk baby #ad
. There's no difference in the transmission temp sense the change from the OEM oil to Amsoil #ad

 

[Sled Puller]

Did you try Straight Amsoil with no Lucas whosit additive? Amsoil frowns on putting anything in their product.
Was it Amsoil Series 3000 5w-30?
Gene

 

[Cliffman]

MGM,

No, I went from the OEM to the Amsoil and added about 8oz of the Lucas additive. The Amsoil oil is coming out soon and the Redline is going in #ad
.

 

[Cliffman]

Yes, Amsoil 3000 5-30

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The NV4500 has linings like automatic transmission clutch material on the bronze (?) synchro rings where they ride on the polished steel cones. That may be a reason why NV had Castrol develop a lube just for that transmission. I don't know if there is such a special circumstance with the NV5600, but I would find out before experimenting with lubes that might cause synchro problems. No parts are available, AFAIK, for the 5600 and you can be sure DC would deny warranty if poor shifting was related to your adding some "mouse milk" lube or additive to the transmission. A new 5600 would not be a cheap date.

Go ahead and flame me, Amgmsoil! I don't care what lube you use in your transmission. I'm neither recommending nor discouraging the use of ANY lube, per se. However, being your own warranty station can get expensive. If you break a transmission because you have 600 hp, you expect to pay because you play. If you have to buy a new transmission because a magic aftermarket lube or additive trashed the synchro liners, you might not be so understanding.

 

[Sled Puller]

Ok, It is not mad science, it is a careful thought out plan that you have researched. Let us know how it works, and a temp guage before and after would be a great help! Is it too late for that?

I liked this quote best:
Quote from Jim Leonard "If your trucks clutch could hold the power with the springs you would
Hear the same rattle that you can hear in the 5sp because the springs
would be compressed all the way and they would not dampen the engine firing pulses. " end quote

I'm leaning toward an unsprung hub, and this is the kind of info I need!
A little rattle is the price you pay for performance, evidently.

Did ya hear that Steve St. Laurent???

 

[Cliffman]

Hey Joe,

Thanks for your input here. Your opinion is well taken by yours truly #ad
. Just to clarify, are you saying that if one should replace there OEM oil with an aftermarket oil such as Amsoil or Redline in there NV 4500 that there would be a sort of slow and silent "wear and tear" on the syncros and cause them to were out prematurely or would there be some sort of sign like a grind when shifting? I personally I'm not experiencing any shifting problems since I replaced my OEM oil with the Amsoil and the 8 oz. of Lucas additive AKA mouse milk LOL.

Joe,
Please pardon my ignorance but what does AFAIK stand for ???

 

[Cliffman]

Bpine,

In talking to the Redline engineer he explained that the reason for the third gear grind was due to the "friction modifier" in the Amsoil 75/90. Something about the friction modifier being too slippery for the syncro's to line up. Redline doesn’t have the friction modifier in there MT-75/90. It's my understanding that the OEM oil is petroleum based and the Redline 75/90 is synthitic, thus making the Redline 75/90 exceptable for use in place of the OEM oil as per Redline engineer.

I would still like to try this remedy to the neutral grind. Is there someone out there that could tell me what signs to look for in damaging my transmission i. e. grinding when shifting, high temps or hard to get into gear or would this experiment be a silent killer to my transmission?

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I don't know if the 5600 has clutch lining in the synchros, but I was bringing up the point so those contemplating lubes for it would check into that type of thing. That issue is related to but separate from the "soft metals" issue.

I am sure Sickly will tow the line as needed. 510 hp ready and willing #ad
If you mean toe the line, that is different; Sickly can be cantankerous. #ad
Again, the soft metal issue is one thing; the clutch-type lining to the synchros is another and no other brand than Castrol has addressed this point in their protestations of greatness and superiority. #ad


I must have done something wrong if MGM agrees with me 100%. rrrrrrr, wonder what it was???

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

AFAIK = as far as I know

 

[Sled Puller]

Joe for once we are in 100% agreement!
Cliffman,
The Amsoill 5w-30 was and is 100% safe for the 6 speed!
Putting that additive in voids the Amsoil warranty.
The Series 2000 75w-90 is 100% safe for the 5spd. It carrys the MT-1 rating that addresses the soft metals Joe is talking about. GUARANTEED by Amsoil. It will not wear and tear your components.
Using a 75w-90 where they are calling for a 5w-30, you are on your own. Good luck!
If you want a real oil expert, contact Amsoil tech services.
Gene

 

[Sled Puller]

Joe,
I only flame you when you make a blatantly false statement. And then you refuse to retract the statement even after the facts prove you are wrong!
So far, on this thread you have not. You are definately towing the line though! #ad

It seems the only thing we have a problem with is the NV4500 warranty issue. Another thread, another time! #ad


Gene

 

[BPINE]

Hey Cliffman do you remember the results of running the amsoil series 2000 75-90. If I remember correctly you had a grind going into third gear, IMO I don't think Redline 75-90 would be any different. Obviously the trans was designed for a light weight oil and we better stay there or you no what might happen. Again IMO I don't think there is any lube out there that is going to help much with the neutral grind, but we can do damage if we are not careful.

 

[Cliffman]

I know of 2 NV4500 (5 speeds) that have the McLeod clutch and neither one of them have the neutral grind #ad
. What’s up with that #ad
. Could it be due to the fact that the NV4500 uses thicker oil, 75/90? Hmmm, this is very apiculture #ad
.

 

[Mike Vonada]

Cliffman, my money is on you to solve this problem for us!

 

[HVAC]

Cliffman, I had the nuetral noise that you currently are experiencing. It surface at the point where I was faced with finding a resolve to my clutch troubles. As you know I installed the McCleod and it is holding well. But that is about the time the nuetral noise surfaced. I have switched over to Amsoil 75-90 many months ago. However, I may have sinned in that I added some of the Prolong slippery stuff as well as some of the special Slick 50 transmission elixer #ad
The 5-speed is clumsy to shift and while I'm not sure the transmission shifts any better I have noticed (I think you did to) that I don't have the nuetral noise. Could all that teflon and molybdenum and gorilla snot that comes in those pretty bottles have had a bering on the noise?

------------------
Nowel/Performance Diesel

 

[Cliffman]

I could not have put it better HV #ad
.

 

[Brandon]

boys i hate to say this but I am with mgm and joe D

Lets becareful about VOODOO maintainance


b... ... ... ... ...

 

[Cliffman]

The Redline engineer has assured me that there would be no damage to my transmission due to using the Redline MT90.