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99 Auto P or N to D or R Stalls
- Thread starter Joe Mc
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Timd32
TDR MEMBER
Been on mopar1973man for a few years, they are kinda known for these 2nd Gen issues and really have a ton of info on them. I don't participate much on there as my 96 is old school and I don't really know that much about the 98.5.and up stuff. But I've read tons of posts over the years. I'm still a member over there as they have a ton of resources and it's good to try to keep that around as long as possible.
There was a time frame when the grounds in the harnesses were really bad on these trucks and the harness was just down right poorly assembled from Dodge, as far as technical issues its down right scary what folks have found.
If you have not looked up that Ground Mod you might benefit from that. The AC ripple is a good starting point and the fix for that involves correcting parts of the harness that had issues and replacing maybe some internal parts of the Alternator, do they give a test report for the alternator, its one thing to bench test good, should repeat in the truck.
It's possible the TDR had an article on the ground harness corrections needed and the AC ripple procedure. They should sticky that stuff at the top of this forum.
If you need to borrow a better meter, just in case your amp clamp does not read that low I can loan you one. PM me your new address and send it back when your done.
You might benefit from someone walking some stuff thru with an IPad or Smart Phone video chat. It's an awesome tool.
I also have an AllData account if there is anything technical you might need I will look on there and can send you some decent color coded schematics, if anyone knows what ones would be best to pull.
I think when you changed your injectors you disturbed an harness and or have created a bad hard to find ground issue or something. And removing the Alternator could also disturb parts of these bad harnesses.
Wish I knew more about these years would walk you thru some stuff.
There was a time frame when the grounds in the harnesses were really bad on these trucks and the harness was just down right poorly assembled from Dodge, as far as technical issues its down right scary what folks have found.
If you have not looked up that Ground Mod you might benefit from that. The AC ripple is a good starting point and the fix for that involves correcting parts of the harness that had issues and replacing maybe some internal parts of the Alternator, do they give a test report for the alternator, its one thing to bench test good, should repeat in the truck.
It's possible the TDR had an article on the ground harness corrections needed and the AC ripple procedure. They should sticky that stuff at the top of this forum.
If you need to borrow a better meter, just in case your amp clamp does not read that low I can loan you one. PM me your new address and send it back when your done.
You might benefit from someone walking some stuff thru with an IPad or Smart Phone video chat. It's an awesome tool.
I also have an AllData account if there is anything technical you might need I will look on there and can send you some decent color coded schematics, if anyone knows what ones would be best to pull.
I think when you changed your injectors you disturbed an harness and or have created a bad hard to find ground issue or something. And removing the Alternator could also disturb parts of these bad harnesses.
Wish I knew more about these years would walk you thru some stuff.
Tim, thanks so much. I know of mopar1973man's site and recently tried to sign in, forgot password, after adding email got message email not found, then tried to start new membership, message account already exists with that email? As with my stall problem, I found myself running in circles trying to get on that site. I'm going to give it another shot and if I fail again will try new membership with alternate email.
As to the stalling, with your thoughts (disturbed something in wiring when initially changed injectors) I've wondered in the back of my mind for some time now if that's what happened? After everything I've gone thru and nothing that's been attempted to resolve has worked I feel it is very likely, as mentioned by you, a wiring ghost. My difficulties are; time is against me, lack of my proficiency with wiring, weather, and getting older (62). Guess I just need to put my big boy pants on and go for it. I just hope I didn't hurt something that wasn't an issue before by disconnecting batteries while running...
So I'm planning, before reinstalling alternator, to go thru the harness on that side of engine (since there's room with alternator out) and see if I can find anything obvious to address, put it back in and see if it'll fire up. Then go after mass of wires by back of rocker cover and that side of engine and go over all connections & grounds again.
Appreciate you offer and info. BTW my Fluke is a model 902 HVAC clamp meter. When the dial is turned to Voltage it has ac/dc and initial acv readout (not connected to anything) reads 0.0, so not sure if it'll read/display below 0.0 IE:0.01 or less.
It's raining today and have house stuff to address so hopefully I can peck away at the truck stuff.
Thanks again Tim and all the others for your continued support. <- sounds like an old Bartles & James commercial LOL
As to the stalling, with your thoughts (disturbed something in wiring when initially changed injectors) I've wondered in the back of my mind for some time now if that's what happened? After everything I've gone thru and nothing that's been attempted to resolve has worked I feel it is very likely, as mentioned by you, a wiring ghost. My difficulties are; time is against me, lack of my proficiency with wiring, weather, and getting older (62). Guess I just need to put my big boy pants on and go for it. I just hope I didn't hurt something that wasn't an issue before by disconnecting batteries while running...
So I'm planning, before reinstalling alternator, to go thru the harness on that side of engine (since there's room with alternator out) and see if I can find anything obvious to address, put it back in and see if it'll fire up. Then go after mass of wires by back of rocker cover and that side of engine and go over all connections & grounds again.
Appreciate you offer and info. BTW my Fluke is a model 902 HVAC clamp meter. When the dial is turned to Voltage it has ac/dc and initial acv readout (not connected to anything) reads 0.0, so not sure if it'll read/display below 0.0 IE:0.01 or less.
It's raining today and have house stuff to address so hopefully I can peck away at the truck stuff.
Thanks again Tim and all the others for your continued support. <- sounds like an old Bartles & James commercial LOL
Timd32
TDR MEMBER
I hate linking thru but if the TDR has an article on this maybe someone can post it up, or give a reference to it.
There was a way I figured out how to search all the TDR electronic magazines, I never pulled thr trigger on the time needed to do that, but they used to have an article summary in them that covered basic areas for what the articles were written. And they are in the same location in the Magazines which is nice.
Either way here is his article on a common grounding issues on certain year trucks.
https://mopar1973man.com/cummins/ar...ectrical/w-t-ground-wire-mod-simplified-r574/
There was a way I figured out how to search all the TDR electronic magazines, I never pulled thr trigger on the time needed to do that, but they used to have an article summary in them that covered basic areas for what the articles were written. And they are in the same location in the Magazines which is nice.
Either way here is his article on a common grounding issues on certain year trucks.
https://mopar1973man.com/cummins/ar...ectrical/w-t-ground-wire-mod-simplified-r574/
Timd32
TDR MEMBER
One other thought was a mechanical knick in a harness as you physically move the shifter, thinking about what is happening when that shifter is physically moving and what signals are being looked at and where.
Maybe someone understands that whole process better and can explain it out, you have some mechanical movements of the valve body, and electrical in the column, and internal to the transmission like the range switch. Then the OD and Gov pressure harnesses internal to the transmission any way those could be rubbing anything mechanical as this motion is happening.
Something in either the column or the physical harness with the internals of the transmission are shorting something out. Drawing an absolute blank on the name of that deal in the column.
Have to set a trap up to catch this issue somehow or eliminate some stuff and then see if it happens.
Would be nice to eliminate a mechanical transmission pressure situation where something like the TCC lock is engaging somehow vs a short taking out the electrical signals to make the engine run.
Has to be someway to isolate this to a certain cut off system.
I have a large knot of wiring just below where your drivers feet are under the truck and had a few wires rub thru, it was intermittent and very hard to find.
If you need that meter I have a few handy, I know they are not super expensive, but sounds like you won't need it that often, the one you have is very nice for the needs you have.
Maybe someone understands that whole process better and can explain it out, you have some mechanical movements of the valve body, and electrical in the column, and internal to the transmission like the range switch. Then the OD and Gov pressure harnesses internal to the transmission any way those could be rubbing anything mechanical as this motion is happening.
Something in either the column or the physical harness with the internals of the transmission are shorting something out. Drawing an absolute blank on the name of that deal in the column.
Have to set a trap up to catch this issue somehow or eliminate some stuff and then see if it happens.
Would be nice to eliminate a mechanical transmission pressure situation where something like the TCC lock is engaging somehow vs a short taking out the electrical signals to make the engine run.
Has to be someway to isolate this to a certain cut off system.
I have a large knot of wiring just below where your drivers feet are under the truck and had a few wires rub thru, it was intermittent and very hard to find.
If you need that meter I have a few handy, I know they are not super expensive, but sounds like you won't need it that often, the one you have is very nice for the needs you have.
Failed is .1 so maybe the meter will do ok. My approach before getting into that mess of wiring
1. re-install alt.
2. check for AC ripple
3. If ripple found repair Alt.
4. If problem persists chk. wiring
If it has ripple it may or may not fix the problem as the damage may have already been done but needs to be addressed so that to me is the first test.
1. re-install alt.
2. check for AC ripple
3. If ripple found repair Alt.
4. If problem persists chk. wiring
If it has ripple it may or may not fix the problem as the damage may have already been done but needs to be addressed so that to me is the first test.
I must share in post 8 I incorrectly commented. I went back to the site and re-read = poster suggested disconnecting alternator while running and not batteries. Stupid me. Going forward I'm not disconnecting anything with an engine running again. BTW Thanks for replies I'm taking off today and may jump in to it tomorrow.
David and others, please understand my intent in post #47 above was an effort to clarify what I entered in post #8 was not a correct statement on my part
- and read -> "I posted a thread on another forum with above information and a reply was "if you get it running and disconnect the batteries does it still stall when placed into gear?" He continued "if it does stall then the alternator brushes are likely bad".
- In actuality the poster from the other website said disconnect the "alternator" = I misread as "batteries".
At this point, and as mentioned in #47, "Going forward I'm not disconnecting anything with an engine running again."
I'm aware of disconnecting batteries before doing any electrical work. Just stupid of me to misread and thinking because back in the days of old you could "jumper cables to the leads on a car without battery to get it fired up and as long as you kept it running all was fine" and that now it wouldn't be different.
One of those "I'll never do that again" moments.
Thanks again.
- and read -> "I posted a thread on another forum with above information and a reply was "if you get it running and disconnect the batteries does it still stall when placed into gear?" He continued "if it does stall then the alternator brushes are likely bad".
- In actuality the poster from the other website said disconnect the "alternator" = I misread as "batteries".
At this point, and as mentioned in #47, "Going forward I'm not disconnecting anything with an engine running again."
I'm aware of disconnecting batteries before doing any electrical work. Just stupid of me to misread and thinking because back in the days of old you could "jumper cables to the leads on a car without battery to get it fired up and as long as you kept it running all was fine" and that now it wouldn't be different.
One of those "I'll never do that again" moments.
Thanks again.
We understand. I will plead the 5th and not tell of questionable things I have done 
. We all do it just some will admit and others will not. Now get back to work or we will never get this figured out. Hows it going on the friends PCM's and ECM ?. Might want to be sure to do the ripple test before changing parts so he gets usable parts back, just in case ya know.
. We all do it just some will admit and others will not. Now get back to work or we will never get this figured out. Hows it going on the friends PCM's and ECM ?. Might want to be sure to do the ripple test before changing parts so he gets usable parts back, just in case ya know.
NIsaacs
TDR MEMBER
The point I was making, is that your problems started with the injectors, both sets. You have said numerous times.....it "never never ever ever" did this before the injector switch.
Nick,he ran these for years and no problems. Removed, rebuilt and been a mess since.
NIsaacs
TDR MEMBER
Yes, I know. That is my point. The truck was fine, forever, until the recent injector change. Two sets produced the same issues. Why? I know the rebuilder is quality, but...
It keeps pointing to injectors as the problem.
Yeah I think we were all on that same path so he bought a new set and same problem so who knows.
Ozymandias
TDR MEMBER
Mmh, no he bought the same Injectors again. So, same problem? Maybe?
Far as I know brand new set of the same type he removed that ran for years. Mach 5.5 or whatever. They are the same as he had with no problems and that is the only reason I am not condemning them.
petersonj
TDR MEMBER
I think @Ozymandias makes a good point here. The injectors that @Joe Mc bought years ago that never gave him a problem could have been built differently than the same injectors he just installed in his engine, even though the injectors are the same model number. Parts sources are constantly changing, tooling changes, engineering changes, etc. I do not have experience with running high horse power injectors, but to me, trying to make a set of high fuel flow injectors idle could be problematic, especially when loading the engine at idle (shifting into drive). It would seem to me that it would not take much of a change in the way an injector is built to bring on this symptom with high horsepower injectors.
@Joe Mc , when I am having serious trouble diagnosing a problem with my truck (and I have had plenty of those), I take one factor into consideration as to how I will proceed. That factor is - for now, can I drive the truck the way it is? If the answer is yes, then I will not spend any more money on the problem until I know the result of the expense will be productive. In the meantime, if I was in your situation, I would start conversations with people who have trucks with similar enhancements that your truck has and have the same drivetrain that your truck has. I would also talk to your injector supplier and pick their brain on possibilities of how the injectors you received could be different than the injectors you ran for years, even though they are supposed to be exactly the same.
A few posts back, I think you said that you were given the opportunity to install RV275 HP injectors. I think would have tried them. My hunch is that the problem would have disappeared just because the ECM would have had a much easier time controlling idle with the injector's lower flow rate.
- John
@Joe Mc , when I am having serious trouble diagnosing a problem with my truck (and I have had plenty of those), I take one factor into consideration as to how I will proceed. That factor is - for now, can I drive the truck the way it is? If the answer is yes, then I will not spend any more money on the problem until I know the result of the expense will be productive. In the meantime, if I was in your situation, I would start conversations with people who have trucks with similar enhancements that your truck has and have the same drivetrain that your truck has. I would also talk to your injector supplier and pick their brain on possibilities of how the injectors you received could be different than the injectors you ran for years, even though they are supposed to be exactly the same.
A few posts back, I think you said that you were given the opportunity to install RV275 HP injectors. I think would have tried them. My hunch is that the problem would have disappeared just because the ECM would have had a much easier time controlling idle with the injector's lower flow rate.
- John
BigPapa
TDR MEMBER
I agree with John, I would have taken the opportunity to try them and see if there was any change. That would rule them out completely since the whole issue started with the injector change.
Also, just my $0.02, but I'd also put in a new set of Crossover Tubes, new O-rings, Injector Seals, O-rings, and Washers, and make sure you don't have any washers left in the holes that need to be removed. Also, check with the builder and see if you need to use the stock washers or a thinner/thicker one.
Also, just my $0.02, but I'd also put in a new set of Crossover Tubes, new O-rings, Injector Seals, O-rings, and Washers, and make sure you don't have any washers left in the holes that need to be removed. Also, check with the builder and see if you need to use the stock washers or a thinner/thicker one.
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
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Renew
Subscribe
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Back Issues
Subscription Status
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