Anatomy of a Frantz toilet paper bypass oil filter

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Just a thought I had, one thing that would help the short filter change interval is to have a spare canister shell which you could have loaded ahead of time with TP and just swap it out. Then at your convenience clean up the dirty one and replace the TP and have it ready to go for the next change. That would be a good way to do it on the road if you hit 2500 miles on a road trip. With oil that clean I think you could run 3000 miles, I probably could with my '03 being the oil takes a long time to turn dark.



When you pop it apart to do a change, how messy is it? Do you have oil dripping all over or running down the side of the base?



Vaughn

 

[Froadin]

Gary, where do you put the return line on that setup?

It's funny that my dad had one of these on his old VW bug, and it worked great. I just never realized at that time that it was a BYPASS filter instead of a normal one.

As for cost, I would think that a group purchase would be easy enough to get together for these, and they have it listed for a price drop when ordering 6 or more. Who knows what a dealer for them might be able to do though.

The other thing about changing them when they are dirty, it doesn't matter. You basically go back to driving like you were before, with just the main filter. It just stops flowing oil through the TP after it gets totally saturated over time, but the worst thing is that you are back to your stock setup. No big deal as that is how most of have driven for many miles already.

 

[LandShark]

Interesting post. One thing that I'm curious about: The paper making process uses a number of nasty chemicals. Do any of these chemicals leach out after being soaked in hot oil? What effect would these chemicals have (if any) in the long term?



Here's a list of some of the chemicals used in making paper:



Acids

Benzoic Acid

Boric Acid

Citric Acid

Fatty Acid

Fumaric Acid

Hydrochloric Acid

Nitric Acid

Oleic Acid

Oxalic Acid

Phosphoric Acid

Steric Acid



Aromatics

Benzene

Isopropanol

Kerosene

Methanol

Methyl Ethyl Ketone

Mineral Spirits

Stoddard Solvent

Toluene

Xylene



Fatty Acids

Animal Acids

Castor Oil Derivatives

Coconut Acids

Glycerides

Oleic Acids Stearic Acids

Vegetable Acids



Flame Retardants

Ammonium Polyphosphate

Antimony Oxide

Chlorendic Anhydride

Chlorendic Diol

Dicyandiamide

Melamine

Melamine Borate

Pentaerythritol



Oils

Pine Oil

Plasticizing Oil

Soybean Oil

Sulfonated Oil



Resins

Alkyid

Alykidsilicone

Epoxy

Fumaric

Indene

Hydrocarbon

Melamine Formaldehyde

Phenolic Resins

Polyamide

Polyester

Polyethylene

Polyurethane

Polyvinyl Achohol

Polyvinyl Aceate

Polyvinyl Chloride

Resorcinol

Urea Formaldehyde



Sodium Compounds

Sodium Benzoate

Sodium Bicarbonate

Sodium Chlorate

Sodium Chloride

Sodium Chlorite



Starches

Corn Starch

Potato Starch

Rice Starch

Tapoica Starch

Wheat Starch

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

As for the "nasty chemicals" used in the paper-making process - what similar "nasty" chemical processes do you suppose go into making the P-A-P-E-R elements used in our OEM oil filters? And THOSE aren't even intended to be passed over our tender backsides!



I'm pretty certain the FDA would sorta frown on nasties left in TP...



Vaughn - I *DO* have 2 of the canisters, and do exactly as you suggest - TP changes at the engine take less time than reading this post will - and I then reload the spare when I feel like it... Since I normally change oil at about 5000 miles, swapping out one 80 cent filter, and adding a single quart of Delo at about $1. 65 is not TOO draining on my time or wallet!



As to oil mess, what you see above is what you get - not a DROP needed to be cleaned up outside the filter housing itself.



Here's a shot of my oil return line to the oil-fill cap on the valvecover:



#ad




That's a simple brass elbow into the cap, which since that pic, was changed over to a swivel fitting available from Amsoil for about $8 - that allows for easier removal of the fill cap.

 

[fkovalski]

Originally posted by Froadin



It's funny that my dad had one of these on his old VW bug, and it worked great. I just never realized at that time that it was a BYPASS filter instead of a normal one.

The "normal" filter on the ole' bugs was just a screen and a magnet on the bottom of the crank case. I can see how this would definatly improve the air cooled motor.



I might be interested in a group purchase. Am going to follow this thread closely. Not to dispute Gary, but want to make sure all the "poop" about this TP filter is up to snuff.

 

[Froadin]

Yeah, the screen those old VW engines used was a joke!



Gary, I was actually thinking that something like that would make the most sense, but I would take it that there are no one way valves in the setup, so it drains back down the input hose.

Anything you would do differently if you had to do it again Gary?

I see they have a new model out, but they don't talk much about what is different.

 

[fkovalski]

I have seen a bypass filter on another member's truck once at a wrench day. He related to me how it works (as similarly stated in this thread. ) He expressed the same workings with a percentage of oil "bypassing" the normal route into a finer micron spin- on filter. I fully see how this system can be justified... . However- If going to a by pass system, why not just use a finer micron spin on filter instead of the TP route? Is it a matter of cost? (not trying to deny the results as posted here, just trying to get all da' facts)

 

[Froadin]

fkovalski, Finer filtering? Frantz's site states that the TP will filter down to 1/10th of a micron.

 

[Froadin]

Oh, and the only part that is disposed of is the TP, instead of wasting the metal, and other BS with the spin on filter.

Oh, and the TP absorbs water as well.

 

[fkovalski]

Originally posted by Froadin

Frantz's site states that the TP will filter down to 1/10th of a micron.

Thanks for the numbers- Was'nt sure of what is "fine" number of filtration would be. (Definatly better than a VW screen )

True there is the wasted metal case too. Good points! I am intrigued to say the least.

 

[LandShark]

Gary: RE my previous reply about chemicals in TP and paper towels: Any chemicals used in paper filters are engineered into the product. Your logic here seems to be that since it's safe to wipe your butt with it, it must be safe to soak it in hot oil and let it sit in a engine for months at a time.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

NO, *MY* logic is based upon something FAR more concrete, OIL ANALYSIS, and over 40 years use with excellent use and NO problems - that isn't advertising hype. or second-hand info, it's my own... Here again is one of my typical oil analysis reports with the Frantz - check it against one of your own, using whatever oil/filter combo you prefer, and show us the result:



#ad




But hey - like I said, these filters are NOT for everyone - and *I* certainly don't stand to gain or lose a thing based upon the decisions of others, I have nothing to "sell" - if TP outside the bathroom scares ya, don't use it outside the bathroom!

 

[Pawpaw]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

As to oil mess, what you see above is what you get - not a DROP needed to be cleaned up outside the filter housing itself.

That's the only part I don't understand. Please help me out.



The filter cannister is mounted "upside-down"... the opening is at the bottom. You already said you let the truck sit for a while (usually overnight) before changing the TP.



I just don't understand how there wouldn't be at least a drop or two of leakage when you lift the cannister (with TP inside) off the center post.



Add me to the list of people who are considering the Frantz filter. It makes perfect sense as you've explained it. I can't quite figure out where I could mount it on my '04.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"However- If going to a by pass system, why not just use a finer micron spin on filter instead of the TP route?"



HMMMmm - can you just IMAGINE the physicaal size filter needed that would be capable of filtering down to 1/10 micron, while still allowing passage of the sheer VOLUME of oil the Cummins puts out?



Some here still don't seem to "get it", the full flow filter (of practical size!) is simply not CAPABLE of extremely fine filtration while still permitting the lubricant flow the engine must have for proper lubrication and cooling - that is exactly why the bypass filters were developed to begin with!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"I just don't understand how there wouldn't be at least a drop or two of leakage when you lift the cannister (with TP inside) off the center post.



A picture is usually worth a thousand words = and that is why I provided so many of them in this thread! Go back up to the top, LOOK at the pic showing the removed filter next to the base housing and securing clamp, and you will SEE *all* the "loose oil" that was present when the top was removed! That's IT!



Sure, you CAN insist on removing the top when the engine and oil is still hot and the cannister full, and make the same sort of mess you will if you do the STOCK spin-on full-flow filter the same way - but why would you wanna DO that?

 

[jcarey]

Gary,

Thank you very much. It took a lot of time and effort to provide us with this info. You are one of the reasons why TDR is such a wealth of knowledge. I have found this an extremely valuable thread. Bottom line... I'm going for one. Jim

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

Gary thanks for the excellent post, I had never even considered a bypass filter before but now that I've read this post it is definantely in my mind. Very nice work!

 

[Froadin]

Yeah, thanks Gary.

I have known about these for quite some time, but never really thought they would work that well on a diesel. Obviously I was wrong about that one, and I will be seriously thinking about one in the near future. I HATE seeing black oil, no matter the reason.

 

[LandShark]

Gary: Once again your logic fails to hold 'oil'. Oil analysis is designed to report on elements and chemicals that are either part of the engine (iron, copper,zinc, etc... ) or in the oil, or other likely contaminants (silicon) that could NORMALLY be introduced in normal engine operation. It does not check or report on the dozens of chemicals that may be introduced by paper broken down by hot oil!



BTW: The main reason to use oil analysis is to show trends. If you use a filter that is so good that it will always give a good analysis, then what's the point of doing the analysis? Is it to indicate that you are using a 'super filter'?

 

[Rman]

man how many times does gary have to say this one... but here goes again.



What in the world do you think a spin on type oil filter is made of?



When you can name this mysterious item that you trust so dearly, reread your post and ... do the math.