Bad fuel, dealer said entire sys needs replaced!

[hsmith]

Yep, that's the one. But then, if I had one of the newer ones I may have a different opinion.

 

[Bob4x4]

No thanks, I'll keep my factory 350 horse, quiet diesel. 12 valve-- blah!

:-laf I will keep both... ... ... . each has it's own set of advantages.

I still put way more miles on my relic '94

 

[MJReynolds]

I've been watching this thread and find some of the issues quite interesting. I agree that Dodge should not be expected to pay for damage from bad fuel in general. But, if there is a warning device on the vehicle that the owner is told (it's in the manual) will indicate when there is water in the fuel it's reasonable for the owner to expect it to work and give enough warning to avoid major damage. The failure of the FIW indicator to work IS Dodges problem and any damage that results from a lack of warning to the owner should then be Dodges responsibility.

I work with aircraft and they have all kinds of warning systems. If Boeing sells a plane to United that has a stall warning system then the pilots expect it to work. If a United pilot is flying the plane and goes too slow and stalls/crashes the plane and he never got the stall warning he was expecting you can bet that Boeing and not the owner (United) is going to be held primarily responsible. The pilot shouldn't have stalled the plane of course but he should have got the warning he was expecting AND that the manufacturer told him he would get if he flew too slow. There are lots of other examples but idea is the same, if Dodge is going to have a FIW indicator to warn/prevent the owner from driving with something that will cause major damage then it better work and work well. If the FIW are unreliable then Dodge is better off not having it at all and just telling the owners that they are on their own and good luck.

 

[HBarlow]

Didn't the guy say he was willing to buy it from Dodge, just not willing to pay any extra labor for install being that they are replacing the system anyways? I guess I don't see how that is trying to make Dodge pay for someones mistake.

I've put many miles on trucks also and have had very few problems, that doesn't mean the system is perfect. A better fuel filter would not cost much more for Dodge to implement and would eliminate many warranty jobs I would think. How many hung injectors could have been avoided with the common rails if there was a 2 micron filter from the factory? We will never know will we?

If you read the entire thread you'll see that the OP tried to bully Dodge into giving him one initially.

 

[HBarlow]

I've been watching this thread and find some of the issues quite interesting. I agree that Dodge should not be expected to pay for damage from bad fuel in general. But, if there is a warning device on the vehicle that the owner is told (it's in the manual) will indicate when there is water in the fuel it's reasonable for the owner to expect it to work and give enough warning to avoid major damage. The failure of the FIW indicator to work IS Dodges problem and any damage that results from a lack of warning to the owner should then be Dodges responsibility.

I work with aircraft and they have all kinds of warning systems. If Boeing sells a plane to United that has a stall warning system then the pilots expect it to work. If a United pilot is flying the plane and goes too slow and stalls/crashes the plane and he never got the stall warning he was expecting you can bet that Boeing and not the owner (United) is going to be held primarily responsible. The pilot shouldn't have stalled the plane of course but he should have got the warning he was expecting AND that the manufacturer told him he would get if he flew too slow. There are lots of other examples but idea is the same, if Dodge is going to have a FIW indicator to warn/prevent the owner from driving with something that will cause major damage then it better work and work well. If the FIW are unreliable then Dodge is better off not having it at all and just telling the owners that they are on their own and good luck.

The comparison of a Dodge pickup to a Boeing aircraft is a poor and meaningless comparison, in part for the reasons you mentioned. A commercial airliner carries and places at potential risk a very large number of passengers, will crash not simply pull over to the shoulder of the highway if failure occurs, costs hundreds of millions of dollars per copy, and is not mass-produced for consumers.

Of course Dodge could install a fail proof (idiot proof) filter system but the cost would be significant. I see little reason for one but prefer to make that decision myself. I can buy one if I feel I need one.

For those of you who feel Dodge should be responsible and should provide a bullet proof fuel filter system and claim you are willing to pay the additional cost, now's your opportunity to put your money where your mouth is. Contact your friendly local Dodge dealer and order one or drive into your friendly local Dodge dealer and have one installed. Dodge now offers a complete system engineered to manufacturer's standards to be compatible with our trucks. What a deal!

Individual choice is always best IMO.

 

[Rams-n-Hogs]

If you read the entire thread you'll see that the OP tried to bully Dodge into giving him one initially.

Harvey,



I have been following this thread from the beginning, and even after re-reading the thread, I still can't find where the OP tried to "bully" Dodge into giving him the updated fuel system. Questioning Dodge on why they couldn't install it on his truck since they have the system apart on it anyway, is not the same as bullying. He even offered to pay for the system, if I read correctly. By Dodge even having the TSB, they know there are potential issues.



As far as the aircraft/Dodge truck analogy, the concept is the same. If there is some sort of safety system built into whatever machine you might want to discuss, that safety system should be expected to work. Equate it to the brake system light on your truck if you want. If your brakes decide to quit working, and the light doesn't come on, how do you know your brakes aren't working, until you hit something, or someone.



FWIW, I personally think diesel fuel has gone downhill the last few years, and with the advent of ULSD, has gotten even worse. 12V's can pretty much run on anything, but CR's, with their high pressures, are going to have issues.

 

[MLee]

Its our responsability as owners to maintain the fuel systems as much as we can our selves. By that I mean as suggested in the manual, drain the water separator as suggested/ required, and check for water, it does not always show up on the dash indicator, I think you would need about 2-3 Oz to light up the light. I have read on here where guys don't ever check for water. Thats way you have a separator, to keep out of trouble. Personaly, I have only seen water once when I have checked for it, and that was a few drops.

 

[Wygate]

The Truck is dead, the shop said it needs a new engine now, that will put my total up to around $30,000 plus the cost of the truck!



Regaurdless of what is being said about me the first time I demanded anything was last night, I feel that 14 days of being stranded is long enough! Up to this point I asked very nicley I might add.



I dont care to spend my days defending myself I have better things to do, I will only post developments as they come.



Please continue to use your right given by our country to say what you will, I am done.

 

[firemansdiesel]

Are you having your insurance write it off, with the 30 grand bill?



I believe if you drain the W/S every fill up, you should be good. There are some instances that is uncotrollable of the owner of the truck to get a filthy tank w/o knowing until it's too late (I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER happens).



Also change the filter when your supposed too (10,000-15,000 miles). More towards the 10,000 miles for me w/ the fuel now.

 

[Regcabguy]

The Truck is dead, the shop said it needs a new engine now, that will put my total up to around $30,000 plus the cost of the truck!



Regaurdless of what is being said about me the first time I demanded anything was last night, I feel that 14 days of being stranded is long enough! Up to this point I asked very nicley I might add.



I dont care to spend my days defending myself I have better things to do, I will only post developments as they come.



Please continue to use your right given by our country to say what you will, I am done.

Best of luck to you. You've been wrung through the wringer. I hope the insurance reimburses you through your comprehensive.

 

[JApol]

Wygate

I hope your insurance company does you right with the truck. If you still have your dodge and want to do some work on it I will be back in the Va beach area in about a month. I will be doing a bunch of work to my own truck but I can spare some time to give you a hand.

If you do keep your truck I would highly recommend a Gacier Diesel Power filter system, FASS or airdog to help filter the water.

Keep us posted on what happens.

 

[HBarlow]

Well it is the start of my second week with out a truck and 500 miles from home. My ins is paying to fix the truck, it needs the entire fuel sys short of new lines and tank!

I just got off the phone with the "factory" and asked them why they would not install the new TSB kit. They had been very helpfull until this phone con.
I asked them why they would authorize a repair that will most likely happen again when they have a fix! No response. They (and by they I mean us the consumer) have a big problem here and seem to know it, so far this new TSB is the 3rd re-do of the 7. 5 and up filtration sys that I am aware of! I did not pay $50k plus for a truck I can't trust with my family in it!

I am personally aware of 3 trucks that have had this same issue in the last 3 or so weeks. I just read a post that will make 4. The only thing I know to do is for us to call the factory and lodge official complaints about this problem.

This is the original poster's comments when he contacted the factory asking for the severe service filter.

I was wrong and hereby apologize to Wygate, the OP.

I guess I was reacting to more severe comments by other members and wrongly attributed their blaming Dodge and expecting more filtration to Wygate.

I do sincerely regret the trouble you have had with your truck and wish you well. My guess is USAA will step up and total the truck. It will all turn out okay in the end but I guess your family vacation was trashed.

 

[MJReynolds]

Of course Dodge could install a fail proof (idiot proof) filter system but the cost would be significant. I see little reason for one but prefer to make that decision myself. I can buy one if I feel I need one.





Individual choice is always best IMO.

I think you're misreading some of the posts. I and others did not say that the filter system should be perfect. It could be but it would be very expensive and in most cases not necessary. The issue that you seem to overlook is the complete failure of the water in fuel indicator to give any warning at all. If there is a protective or warning system on a piece of equipment the owner of that equipment has a reasonable expectation that it will work well enough to prevent major damage. I'm not asking for a "bullet proof" fuel system but if there is fuel in the water in sufficient quantity to damage the engine I do expect a warning. My owners manual tells me I should get one so I expect it to work. Enough said I'm done with this one.

 

[Wygate]

Still no word from the dealer, I did however talk to the ins adjuster. She was told I have fuel oil contamination (fuel in the oil). Still everone is pointing at the other, "its there fault".

I can say that when I left the truck it was idleing perfect, that does not sound like an engine that has internal damage, I am starting to think that the dealer may have caused a bigger issue while "fixing and running it"

My Ins has not dropped me yet, so at least I have that.



I can't thank all of you enough for your support, I have one shop and 2 fellas that have gone way out of their way to offer help, I may still be calling still have a few days before I have to get back to VA.



Harvy thank you for being big enough person to step up like you did.

 

[hsmith]

I like Bob4X4's reply. One new and one old dependable 12 valve. I'm keeping the old rattler for sure. Now if the wife will win the lottery, HMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!

 

[Wiredawg]

All.



I was freaked out enough by the this thread that I went on E-Bay and ordered a Raycor fuel filter/water separator w/ 12ea 2 micron filters. This is not the one shown earlier in the thread (Racor 777R), NEW GTB445 FUEL FILTER WATER SEPARATOR 120/GPH RACOR - eBay (item 310128581224 end time Nov-07-09 16:05:36 PST),

NEW GTB445 FUEL FILTER WATER SEPARATOR 120/GPH RACOR 310128581224. I have a spare FASS I've not installed yet, but gonna put that on my wife's '03. I feel this unit will give me additional protection without altering other componets of the fuel system. I know fuel contaminated by water is a real issue w/ these trucks as the driver from the delaership where I bought my 09 4500 told me about a bade experience he and the dealership had. He went to Tennessee to pick up an 09 3500. He appearantly bought contaminated fuel that ruined the fuel system at a cost of about $17K. had previously stated I would not mod this truck while under warranty, but the extra filtration plus weekly checks of both the stock and additional system may help prevent problems. I'm also extra careful about only buy diesel at truck stops and high volume dealers.



This should be good ins. I may also install dual fuel pressure gauges, one infront of the filters and one behind to ID potential problems.



Hope all works out in getting either Ins or the fuel dealer to make good on the truck.



Best Wishes,



Wiredawg

 

[Wygate]

Has anyone seen any other place that has postings on fuel sys issues on the 07. 5 and up?

Also I firmly believe that my dealer has caused further internal damage, any Ideas? I plan on getting a print out history from the ECU, just don't what else to do yet going to be hard to prove.

 

[Grizzly]

Wygate, I wish you well and hope you and your insurance company settle soon so that you can leave this nightmare behind you.



When you do purchase a new truck, don't give up on Dodge/Cummins. I don't know about GM diesels, but I do know that Furd PJ have many issues with fuel contamination.

 

[Wygate]

Wygate, I wish you well and hope you and your insurance company settle soon so that you can leave this nightmare behind you.



When you do purchase a new truck, don't give up on Dodge/Cummins. I don't know about GM diesels, but I do know that Furd PJ have many issues with fuel contamination.

Griz thanks,

I have a good chance of getting transfered to Homer, AK next summer. I thought you said something about makeing that drive, any pointers.



I am still hoping that "they" will do the right thing.

 

[Wygate]

I just recalled a conversation that I had with my service manager. He told me the WIF light was on when the tow truck droped it off a day after it left me. Based on the distance to the bay my truck was in and the fact it was taken back out, IT WAS PROBLEY DRIVEN (about 100/150 yds with a 180deg turn and uneven parking lot). This may infact be the cause of the internal damage, as it clealy states do not start if WIF is constant.



What will a print out from the ECU have on it?