Bad fuel, dealer said entire sys needs replaced!

[sag2]

If it was water it should not have caused internal engine damage unless it stuck a couple of injectors open and it was driven hard enough to melt a piston or two. The other possibility is stuck open and hydo locked a cylinder, and the last is it wasn't water but something corrosive and it rusted up/stuck the rings. You need to ask the dealer why they think they have internal damage.

Also a comment on the WIF sensor. The only way it can work is if the liquid is conductive. So if you have water from condensation it likely does not have enough mineral content to turn on the light. I guess I need to try it, pour tap water in the canister and then try distilled water. It would be interesting to see which one turns on the light.

 

[JWadford]

If it was water it should not have caused internal engine damage unless it stuck a couple of injectors open and it was driven hard enough to melt a piston or two. The other possibility is stuck open and hydo locked a cylinder, and the last is it wasn't water but something corrosive and it rusted up/stuck the rings. You need to ask the dealer why they think they have internal damage.

Also a comment on the WIF sensor. The only way it can work is if the liquid is conductive. So if you have water from condensation it likely does not have enough mineral content to turn on the light. I guess I need to try it, pour tap water in the canister and then try distilled water. It would be interesting to see which one turns on the light.

very true needs minerals to be conductive.

 

[Wygate]

If it was water it should not have caused internal engine damage unless it stuck a couple of injectors open and it was driven hard enough to melt a piston or two. The other possibility is stuck open and hydo locked a cylinder, and the last is it wasn't water but something corrosive and it rusted up/stuck the rings. You need to ask the dealer why they think they have internal damage.

Also a comment on the WIF sensor. The only way it can work is if the liquid is conductive. So if you have water from condensation it likely does not have enough mineral content to turn on the light. I guess I need to try it, pour tap water in the canister and then try distilled water. It would be interesting to see which one turns on the light.

I was driving with the cruse on most of the trip (70ish) so no the hard driving that would melt a piston.

In my D-max the WIF senser was a float, the Dodge is done using current? I have only had the truck for a few months and most of it I have been deployed TAD, so I am not as up to speed as most of you.



As of right now USAA is still hanging with me, they have authorized a tear down to figure out whats what.

 

[Wygate]

I am hearing stories (Diesel power sight) of Dodge having a very big issue with this fuel sys and they have a few fixes out that no one has brought up yet. Anyone see anything first hand?



I have had 3 certified Cummings guys tell me the filter will get overloaded and fail, to the point the filter will let all the crap pass into the Injection pump and injectors.

 

[Grizzly]

Griz thanks,

I have a good chance of getting transfered to Homer, AK next summer. I thought you said something about makeing that drive, any pointers.



I am still hoping that "they" will do the right thing.

Wygate, we've made the drive twice and hope to make it again many more times. I'd be happy to tell you anything you want to know about Alaska, provided I have the answer. Just send me a PM. A good source for information on Alaska is my thread of Feb 06 titled, "Alaska trip in a Cab-Over-Camper". The easiest way to log on to the thread is to click on my name, Grizzly on this post.



Then click on, "View Public Profile".

Click, "Show All Statistics".

Click, "Find All Threads Started By Grizzly".

Go to page #2

Look for, Alaska Trip... , which has 172 posts.



There is a wealth of great information by many TDR members from Alaska, Canada and the lower 48. We loved Homer and the Homer Spit as well as all of Alaska, BC and the Yukon.

 

[Wygate]

Can anyone confirm that we can put additives in out fuel to help with the water issue. I seem to recall something or someone stating we could not put the fuel treatment in as it will negate the warrenty.

 

[Bob4x4]

You do not want to use any additive with an alcohol (or similiar)base that will allow the water to be mixed into the fuel

 

[PFranzese]

You do not want to use any additive with an alcohol (or similiar)base that will allow the water to be mixed into the fuel

This is going to be a very newbie question but its what I am so here it goes. :-laf



What bad things happen when the water is mixed vs the water not being mixed in?



I would assume that mixed in the water gets burned but appearently not.

 

[TCDiesel]

You do not want to use any additive with an alcohol (or similiar)base that will allow the water to be mixed into the fuel

Or if The state you live in has Bio-diesel, The Hydroscopic media filters (Quality) do a much better job than the W/S do, If you listen to the Marketing or the cheerleaders or Key stoke experts you may pay dearly at some point. Chrysler did not contaminate the fuel in most case(s) it the station owner(s) lack of handling or care "DEMAND ANSWERS, WHAT TYPE OF FILTERS DO YOU HAVE INSTALL AT THE PUMP”? I need to see the drop (sheet) that was from the last delivered fuel drop(S). In MN all of these documents MUST be at the disposal of the end user, and believe Me I have ask for them and they were not available, so I said call the Police Because I am not paying for this fuel until I get to see the documents (I carry a copy of the Statue) that are require to be on hand... I did not pay for it 1 time at Moto and the next Day someone from the corp call and thank Me for bringing it to their attention. . That fill up was free and now the documents are posted at the counter. GTG.

 

[HBarlow]

I am hearing stories (Diesel power sight) of Dodge having a very big issue with this fuel sys and they have a few fixes out that no one has brought up yet. Anyone see anything first hand?

I have had 3 certified Cummings guys tell me the filter will get overloaded and fail, to the point the filter will let all the crap pass into the Injection pump and injectors.

My advice would be to take what you read on the other sites with a grain of salt. Opinions are cheap and everyone has at least one. Anyone with a computer and keyboard can show up on the web and post anything that comes to mind. Much of it is nonsense.

TDR has a higher average age and higher maturity level than some of the other sites. Among TDR members there are many ISB6. 7 engines in service and taking the total numbers of trucks and aggregate odometer miles into consideration there are few serious problems reported. There were a few posts about CELs and sooted DPFs and EGRs, primarily on '07. 5 trucks. Yours is the first and most serious post I remember reading about the fuel system and it is not yet known what the true cause of your problem is.

Among TDR membership and regular posters there are at least three (3) known trained, experienced, knowledgeable Dodge dealership Cummins techs. I have personally met and talked with one of them and can testify that he is who he says he is and is as knowledgeable as I assumed he was before I met him. I trust what our three TDR member/techs tell us. They know the trucks and have no reason to tell us anything other than the truth. If you have a question, ask them.

 

[Wygate]

My advice would be to take what you read on the other sites with a grain of salt. Opinions are cheap and everyone has at least one. Anyone with a computer and keyboard can show up on the web and post anything that comes to mind. Much of it is nonsense.

TDR has a higher average age and higher maturity level than some of the other sites. Among TDR members there are many ISB6. 7 engines in service and taking the total numbers of trucks and aggregate odometer miles into consideration there are few serious problems reported. There were a few posts about CELs and sooted DPFs and EGRs, primarily on '07. 5 trucks. Yours is the first and most serious post I remember reading about the fuel system and it is not yet known what the true cause of your problem is.

Among TDR membership and regular posters there are at least three (3) known trained, experienced, knowledgeable Dodge dealership Cummins techs. I have personally met and talked with one of them and can testify that he is who he says he is and is as knowledgeable as I assumed he was before I met him. I trust what our three TDR member/techs tell us. They know the trucks and have no reason to tell us anything other than the truth. If you have a question, ask them.

Thanks Harvey,

Thats what I had though about TDR and D. Power, just not real sure as I am new to this world of posting and spelling as you may have seen!



I expect to hear from someone with some mussel today to get this resolved once and for all. I just want what I am paying for (made a payment end of last week) a dependable truck.

 

[Wygate]

New development

Just talked to the dealer, the new injectors they installed are BAD! They don' know how many yet, just that is the issue as the eng has over 400lbs of compression on each cyl well within speck as I am told.

Dose that compression sound correct to you guys?



Is it possible to have any worse luck? Guess we still have our health!

 

[sag2]

The chances that all the new injectors they installed are bad is slim to none. What other parts did they replace?

 

[HBarlow]

Wygate,

I'm becoming more convinced with each of your posts that the dealer service department that has your truck is not trained or experienced with Cummins diesel engines.

If you ever get it back from them in running condition I'll be surprised and would worry about the potential long term or hidden damage they might do to a new truck.

My advice is still send a roll back wrecker to retrieve it and haul it to a competent dealership.

 

[Wygate]

I have talked to the tecs at RACOR, Heavy truck shops, Diesel shops, Chief Engineers of ships and some of the sponsors here on TDR. All of them said the almost the same thing, filters on the pressure side of a pump have an extremely hard time dealing with water. They should be on the vacuum side. I even stated my case wanting to buy their product and still said the best fix is the new (the ones that knew of it anyway) TSB. Also that the filter should fill and plug before it lets anything through.

This is not my opinon, it is fact from all asspects of the diesel world as these folks I talked to are the ones charged with keeping this stuff running.



I believe I will be getting TSB 14-003-09 as soon as I see my truck again, 22 days and counting and still stuck. It is my understanding that the Warranty side of Chrysler is now on my case as the dealership got and installed "bad new" injectors and ran my eng on the road until it was up to temp, then drove it back on what I was told "3 or so cylinders" (I did not get this call my self, a family member took the call when I was out).

I will get the strait story in the morning.

 

[TCDiesel]

The real Problem Is those same sponsors Have High pressure Pumps, if you run low pressure 10 Psi or less with a quality Hydroscopic media filter it will be equal to the vacuum side, if you get Bio-Diesel you will hate your Vacuum filter in -0 temps( unless pre-heated). High pressure makes any filter less effective. If I ran those High pressure Pumps I would want vacuum filtering, Pressure has its place but the CP3 Pump could care less about pressure, its only concerned with volume, Yes in extreme HP feeding the Modded CP3 with additional pressure will add HP,think about it hang a sheet from your cloth line then throw 5 gallons of dirty water in a bucket, see how much dirt stays on the correct side, Now Blast that same dirty water through a hose at 20 PSI,then see how much dirt gets through the sheet. Pressure Kills filtration when in demand. I challenge those sponsors and will put up the $$$$ if they equal it. . and all systems get tested with 5% Bio-Diesel @-0 temps. This scenario exits in about ½ the Midwest . Ship do not have their filters hanging above deck in -0 temps they are below where it's nice and cozy.

 

[Wygate]

The water in fuel issue is way bigger than we have thought. I logged an official complaint (early last week) with PA. D. E. P. Chris S. in tank insp. stated PA allows up to 2 inches of water in the tanks. As I am told that is a state statute, so you tell me that Chrysler dose not know that the sys should handel some water on a regular basis.

Please go to your states and find out what is the tollerable level of water for them.



It is now 23 days, I just found out that the "new" injector pump was bad, not the injectors. This Chrysler issued part has now cost me an extra week and change. The truck was run with the faulty part and I have not been able to get the exact run time or fuel ammount in the oil. I am working on that. It is being logged in the history.



Also I will be ordering the new TSB and will let you know how it goes on if infact I keep the truck I have allready been in contact with dealers. A little trust goes a long way!

 

[Wygate]

Wygate,

I'm becoming more convinced with each of your posts that the dealer service department that has your truck is not trained or experienced with Cummins diesel engines.

If you ever get it back from them in running condition I'll be surprised and would worry about the potential long term or hidden damage they might do to a new truck.

My advice is still send a roll back wrecker to retrieve it and haul it to a competent dealership.

Harvey,

I wish I could have it towed, not being in the area makes this even worse. I am so deep in multy issues here it hurts when I think of all the levels I am keeping track of. Thanks for looking out me.

 

[Wygate]

I just got word that my truck was run with faulty CP3 pump for aprox 20 min. It was shut down due to an increased idle and ruff sound. They drained the oil and found 8 GALLONS in the pan and crank case!! I have logged yet another complaint with Chrysler.

I know that there are levels of FO contamination that are acceptable as I have taken the samples and tested them my self, 5 gal is not in any engine!

More to follow

 

[JApol]

8 GALLONS?!?!

I wonder how much went out the breather tube before the truck was shut down?

I didn't know there was space for 8 gallons.