Dealer will not provide a copy to me. They state that it is proprietary and cannot divulge the information to the consumer.
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Bad injectors at 95K miles... is this normal?
- Thread starter fkovalski
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Dealer will not provide a copy to me. They state that it is proprietary and cannot divulge the information to the consumer.
They are lying to you. They likely have no idea how to interpret the test results.
It is YOUR truck. You have hired them provide answers and documentation for the solution. They have no legal right to deny access to the information they have developed on YOUR truck at YOUR request. If they want you to authorize them to fix any issues then they MUST provide the information and explain it to you.
RUN don't walk away from there!!!!
It is a rare event indeed but I am precisely in agreement with cerberusiam.
The situation is no different than you seeing your doctor to have an annual physical exam. When you pay the doctor's bill you have an absolute legal right to the results of the tests he performed and the results of his examination. It is your body, your test results, and your medical record.
I would demand the printed results or a refund of my money. I have received copys of that and other tests when performed by a Dodge dealer.
The situation is no different than you seeing your doctor to have an annual physical exam. When you pay the doctor's bill you have an absolute legal right to the results of the tests he performed and the results of his examination. It is your body, your test results, and your medical record.
I would demand the printed results or a refund of my money. I have received copys of that and other tests when performed by a Dodge dealer.
Yo Hoot
TDR MEMBER
I would bet the Cummins ethanol testing was done like drug companies do drug testing... . feed abnormal amounts, whether it be time or substance to accelerate symptoms.
cerberusiam isn't telling anyone to run seafoam for a significant amount of time.
I wouldn't be concerned about doing what he said and in fact may try it soon. My 04 at 128,000 miles has been exhibiting symptoms like rough idle and sputtering along with surging when cold. Maybe an injector cleaning might help.
Mike
cerberusiam isn't telling anyone to run seafoam for a significant amount of time.
I wouldn't be concerned about doing what he said and in fact may try it soon. My 04 at 128,000 miles has been exhibiting symptoms like rough idle and sputtering along with surging when cold. Maybe an injector cleaning might help.
Mike
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I have to call bs on this...
UPDATE... (warning: long post trying to describe symptoms)
The diesel shop did the initial testing this week resulting in no indication of injector failure. They said the only "real" way to confirm injector failure is to pull and bench test all 6. I had them do this. From that test (of which I have printed tech data of which I do not fully understand) they stated that 5 are bad. I went ahead and had them replaced all 6 along with "return tubes. " BUT...
... while I could tell a difference in the new parts there is still something not correct and it is frustrating the hell out of me. Further advice and comments would be appreciated.
A good thing I noticed (after the new injectors were installed) is that there is not as much RPM "drop-off" between shifting gears. It seems as if the engine speed remains more constant now which allows for smoother shifting. Before, I would really have to get wheel speed, manually bring up RPM, etc... to make for better shifting routines. Now it seems much better. I would have mentioned this in my initial post but did not realize the difference until after the injector install. I hope what I just described makes sense. There is much less black smoke even at the 9,000+ altitude.
The major symptom that is still present is what I call "machine-gunning. " It sounds like a an RPM dependent cyclical "machine gun" sounding miss in the engine. What I mean by this is that the motor still feel as if there is a "miss. " What I referred to as "knock" in my OP is not as prevalent. This "heavier" sound/ feel is not there as before... . but there is a HECK of a LOT MORE of a "ping" or "detonation" sound now. It is much worse after the new injectors.
The pinging is most prevalent upon low speed starting out in 1st and 2nd gears as well as in the higher gears when mildly stepping on the accelerator in order to maintain speed or slightly increase it. If I step hard on the accelerator there will be a very brief pinging but it goes away because I am asking the engine to do more work. I am still noticing a very slight decrease in power. The truck does not accelerate as quick as it used to.
I have not brought the truck back to the shop that did the new install; it is some 100 miles away.
Let me reiterate: I know this is a diesel and I understand that they make more noise than its gasoline counterpart. I get that there will be some clattering and I am not trying to silence this motor. I have had this truck since purchased new. It is my second Cummins, (the other being a 2001. 5) I have noticed the symptoms of which I describe starting at approx 65K miles. I am very much "in-tune" with this because of being the original owner and the "miss" as I describe was very slight then and I have experienced it getting worse over time to where now in is not only more noticeable but downright annoying because something is not right.
I will reiterate what has been done thus far: new turbo, new injection pump (original stock in-tank pump), dealer professional BD injection service, valve adjust... now 6 new injectors.
PLEASE educate me on fuel delivery system components/ theory from the electronic end of this problem. Correct me if I am wrong, but is not this a "3 cycle injection fuel delivery" system (or words to that effect?) My understanding is that the pre-injection of the cycling is to reduce pinging. Is it possible that however this pre-injection fuel delivery is not happening? What components would need to be checked to determine if this procedure is faulty? What other components could be causing this continued symptom. Should the wiring harness to the injectors have been replaced?
The diesel shop did the initial testing this week resulting in no indication of injector failure. They said the only "real" way to confirm injector failure is to pull and bench test all 6. I had them do this. From that test (of which I have printed tech data of which I do not fully understand) they stated that 5 are bad. I went ahead and had them replaced all 6 along with "return tubes. " BUT...
... while I could tell a difference in the new parts there is still something not correct and it is frustrating the hell out of me. Further advice and comments would be appreciated.
A good thing I noticed (after the new injectors were installed) is that there is not as much RPM "drop-off" between shifting gears. It seems as if the engine speed remains more constant now which allows for smoother shifting. Before, I would really have to get wheel speed, manually bring up RPM, etc... to make for better shifting routines. Now it seems much better. I would have mentioned this in my initial post but did not realize the difference until after the injector install. I hope what I just described makes sense. There is much less black smoke even at the 9,000+ altitude.
The major symptom that is still present is what I call "machine-gunning. " It sounds like a an RPM dependent cyclical "machine gun" sounding miss in the engine. What I mean by this is that the motor still feel as if there is a "miss. " What I referred to as "knock" in my OP is not as prevalent. This "heavier" sound/ feel is not there as before... . but there is a HECK of a LOT MORE of a "ping" or "detonation" sound now. It is much worse after the new injectors.
The pinging is most prevalent upon low speed starting out in 1st and 2nd gears as well as in the higher gears when mildly stepping on the accelerator in order to maintain speed or slightly increase it. If I step hard on the accelerator there will be a very brief pinging but it goes away because I am asking the engine to do more work. I am still noticing a very slight decrease in power. The truck does not accelerate as quick as it used to.
I have not brought the truck back to the shop that did the new install; it is some 100 miles away.
Let me reiterate: I know this is a diesel and I understand that they make more noise than its gasoline counterpart. I get that there will be some clattering and I am not trying to silence this motor. I have had this truck since purchased new. It is my second Cummins, (the other being a 2001. 5) I have noticed the symptoms of which I describe starting at approx 65K miles. I am very much "in-tune" with this because of being the original owner and the "miss" as I describe was very slight then and I have experienced it getting worse over time to where now in is not only more noticeable but downright annoying because something is not right.
I will reiterate what has been done thus far: new turbo, new injection pump (original stock in-tank pump), dealer professional BD injection service, valve adjust... now 6 new injectors.
PLEASE educate me on fuel delivery system components/ theory from the electronic end of this problem. Correct me if I am wrong, but is not this a "3 cycle injection fuel delivery" system (or words to that effect?) My understanding is that the pre-injection of the cycling is to reduce pinging. Is it possible that however this pre-injection fuel delivery is not happening? What components would need to be checked to determine if this procedure is faulty? What other components could be causing this continued symptom. Should the wiring harness to the injectors have been replaced?
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Do you have any idea exactly what injectors you had the old ones replaced with? Genuine Bosch or something else? It makes a huge difference in what exactly you have in there. Any idea on the cost of the injectors alone? That will be a good indication of what you have.
When you talk about a "miss" is that something you can feel like a dead hole? Does it happen all the time or only certain engine temps, throttle position, grade, etc?
The injector rattle, what sounds like pinging, is pretty common once the engine gets some miles. Mine has done it from about 50k on. It is worse on acceleration, much worse when engine temp is cold, goes away when you get the rpms over about 2500 or throttle position around 60-75%. It is also worse at low throttle minimal load cruising. There is a noticeable difference in the noise enpty as oppsed to pulling a trailer at the same rpms, it is much less under a load. In my case it is quite likely erosion of the tips and a spray pattern that is not perfect along with just normal wear. I have noticed that the harder and longer I work the truck the quieter overall it gets. The injector rattle has never gone completely away it only gets less under hard use.
These engines are better described as an "up to 3 event" injection cycle. Like the 6. 7 and its possible 5 events, the 3rd event is not alwasy present. It is used when the ECU determines it is neccessary for emissions, normally high load high rpm situations. You will always have a pilot and main event. That was the chief change from a single injectin event to quiet the combustion process. By using smaller explosions of fuel it limits the big bang of one event and the 2 events will partially cancel the pressure spikes which generate the noise. Injector rattle as it is commonly called is really combustion rattle from multiple combustion events colliding. Since the pilot is quite a bit smaller then the main event it tends to over power it. Under a light load everything has to be perfect in the cylinder and the injection event to not create noise. Injector balance, reaction time, lack of carbon in the cylinder, etc, all work together. If any of the components ar a little off you are going to get some noise.
This is where companys like Exergy and Big Bang can really quiet the combustion process down with some fine tuning and balancing on the injectors. It is precision work that the run of a mill injector just does not posses. Idle quality, noise, throttle reaction all improve but you definitely pay for that.
After the inector install, did you have a cylinder contribution test done to see where the percentages are at? That might tell you if there is still an imbalance that will potentially cause a perceived miss, power fluctuations, rattle, etc. Have you hooked up some heavy weight and driven the snot out of it for a while? At the altitude you are at carboning can be a real problem in the cylinder. That will introduce variables that can lead to your perceived problems.
The power loss is something else. Is this new noticed after the injector change, or, something that is different from 50k ago? How old is your clutch? A perceived power loss could be injectors, or clutch, or memory dilution. It is really a perception thing at times.
When you talk about a "miss" is that something you can feel like a dead hole? Does it happen all the time or only certain engine temps, throttle position, grade, etc?
The injector rattle, what sounds like pinging, is pretty common once the engine gets some miles. Mine has done it from about 50k on. It is worse on acceleration, much worse when engine temp is cold, goes away when you get the rpms over about 2500 or throttle position around 60-75%. It is also worse at low throttle minimal load cruising. There is a noticeable difference in the noise enpty as oppsed to pulling a trailer at the same rpms, it is much less under a load. In my case it is quite likely erosion of the tips and a spray pattern that is not perfect along with just normal wear. I have noticed that the harder and longer I work the truck the quieter overall it gets. The injector rattle has never gone completely away it only gets less under hard use.
These engines are better described as an "up to 3 event" injection cycle. Like the 6. 7 and its possible 5 events, the 3rd event is not alwasy present. It is used when the ECU determines it is neccessary for emissions, normally high load high rpm situations. You will always have a pilot and main event. That was the chief change from a single injectin event to quiet the combustion process. By using smaller explosions of fuel it limits the big bang of one event and the 2 events will partially cancel the pressure spikes which generate the noise. Injector rattle as it is commonly called is really combustion rattle from multiple combustion events colliding. Since the pilot is quite a bit smaller then the main event it tends to over power it. Under a light load everything has to be perfect in the cylinder and the injection event to not create noise. Injector balance, reaction time, lack of carbon in the cylinder, etc, all work together. If any of the components ar a little off you are going to get some noise.
This is where companys like Exergy and Big Bang can really quiet the combustion process down with some fine tuning and balancing on the injectors. It is precision work that the run of a mill injector just does not posses. Idle quality, noise, throttle reaction all improve but you definitely pay for that.
After the inector install, did you have a cylinder contribution test done to see where the percentages are at? That might tell you if there is still an imbalance that will potentially cause a perceived miss, power fluctuations, rattle, etc. Have you hooked up some heavy weight and driven the snot out of it for a while? At the altitude you are at carboning can be a real problem in the cylinder. That will introduce variables that can lead to your perceived problems.
The power loss is something else. Is this new noticed after the injector change, or, something that is different from 50k ago? How old is your clutch? A perceived power loss could be injectors, or clutch, or memory dilution. It is really a perception thing at times.
A common failure item in these engines is the Fuel Control Actuator (FCA). When it goes bad a rough idle will sometimes result and a rattle like the pre-ignition rattle in a high compression gas motor. An FCA costs about $150 from Cummins and I think Genos sells it also.
Many will disagree but it is my opinion that when you take the truck to a shop that tests and rebuilds injectors they will always find bad ones in your engine. I believe the cylinder contribution test that a competent dealer service department can run with their dedicated software is a better test.
I had the cylinder contribution test done on my '06 when it had over 200k miles on the odometer. The test showed all cylinders were close to equal eliminating any bad injectors.
Many will disagree but it is my opinion that when you take the truck to a shop that tests and rebuilds injectors they will always find bad ones in your engine. I believe the cylinder contribution test that a competent dealer service department can run with their dedicated software is a better test.
I had the cylinder contribution test done on my '06 when it had over 200k miles on the odometer. The test showed all cylinders were close to equal eliminating any bad injectors.
New injection pump would pretty much rule that out as a source.
WARNING: long post alert... forgive me on this as I am venting my frustration by not getting worked up too much but rather needing to understand more of the technical side of all this... especially now all warranties are over and repairs are on my dime. I will answer some of your questions.
"you may be hearing the effects of timing?"
Tell me more about this timing. I know that it is electronically controlled solenoids at the injector fed via HPCR. Pretty easy concept. What components control the elctronic timing... I get that it is prolly a bunch of sensors feeding the computer which controls the timing to the injectors... . but how is timing set from the factory? Can it be adjusted on the truck with a special tool? Should the dealer who installed the injection pump set this up to insure proper timing with new inj. pump? Should the shop that installed the new injectors verify proper timing?
"Does the rattle change if you hit the go pedal a bit more from where it was rattling?"
I was very specific with dealer #1 (there have been 3) about this rattling sound. Very similar to a paint can. Dealer was able to determine some evidence to get the injection pump warrantied under the Cummins coverage. Turbo was also replaced at this time. The rattling went away which was the primary complaint at that time. I assume it was because (as alluded to) that the FCA was replaced as part of the injection pump. But after this work there came about the new symptoms as alluded to in my OP. Dealers were telling me this is normal. Another specialty shop cave me an opinion that alluded to worn injects causing my concerns. The most recent dealer concurred that injectors could be the cause.
Injectors I have come to learn are NOT part of the Cummins coverage unless a code is set. I had none according to the dealer. They could not warranty the injectors even though they indicated it is a cause of my complaint to them. Ask me how I know this... cause I tried as best I could in taking this concern high up the flagpole to the CARE call center. They will not cover new injectors even though I have been voicing this drive-ability concerns to 3 dealers.
"Do you have any idea exactly what injectors you had the old ones replaced with? Genuine Bosch or something else?"
the diesel specialty shop remans the injectors to new specifications in-house. They were some $1,500 less than the dealer to R&R and install new.
"Any idea on the cost of the injectors alone? That will be a good indication of what you have. " IIRC each were $350 after core refund.
"After the inector install, did you have a cylinder contribution test done to see where the percentages are at?" I do not believe this was done.
"Have you hooked up some heavy weight and driven the snot out of it for a while?" I have not put on the camper (#3000) since the repairs.
"At the altitude you are at carboning can be a real problem in the cylinder. " Would not the fuel system cleaning service by the dealer reduce some of the carbon build-up in the cylinder (or am I thinking totally wrong by asking this question?)
"The power loss is something else. Is this new noticed after the injector change, or, something that is different from 50k ago?" I seemed to notice the slight difference after the new injection pump (and turbo) install. Rattle gone, but not quite the same with the slight knock and power difference.
"How old is your clutch?" Stock original with 96,xxx miles.
"A perceived power loss could be injectors, or clutch, or memory dilution. It is really a perception thing at times. " (my highlight)
Absolutely! I could not agree more! In fact, with the 3 dealers and 1 brand specific shop telling me it is normal, it is worn/ dirty injectors/ no harm being done... well I kinda' listen to them as they are the experts. OK, I got it that DC will not cover no matter how hard I tried, so I bite the bullet and pay for new injectors.
I can tell a difference by the new injector install (my post earlier re: no RPM drop when clutching) But there are more prevalent symptoms now that I feel have been present all along, but are so much more evident with the recent work.
I am no diesel expert (even though I stayed a a Holiday Inn. . LOL) ... and call me crazy but there is something just 'aint right. I get that it is a diesel. I get that is not brand new. But everyone says that for less than 100K miles these things are just getting broken in. It 'aint running like that. I know this is a 95K motor. I do not mind investing in parts to keep it going. But somewhere somehow, something got missed because there are a lot of new parts that have been installed and it is not solving my issues (and is getting worse) that started out with a simple rattle. The rattle is gone, but all this other crap!!!
Thanks for listening, not just for the tech advice put also for having a "diesel psychiatrist's" couch available allowing me to vent.
EDIT: My original post about he rattle is here: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?232410-quot-Rattling-quot-type-sound-during-acceleration
"you may be hearing the effects of timing?"
Tell me more about this timing. I know that it is electronically controlled solenoids at the injector fed via HPCR. Pretty easy concept. What components control the elctronic timing... I get that it is prolly a bunch of sensors feeding the computer which controls the timing to the injectors... . but how is timing set from the factory? Can it be adjusted on the truck with a special tool? Should the dealer who installed the injection pump set this up to insure proper timing with new inj. pump? Should the shop that installed the new injectors verify proper timing?
"Does the rattle change if you hit the go pedal a bit more from where it was rattling?"
I was very specific with dealer #1 (there have been 3) about this rattling sound. Very similar to a paint can. Dealer was able to determine some evidence to get the injection pump warrantied under the Cummins coverage. Turbo was also replaced at this time. The rattling went away which was the primary complaint at that time. I assume it was because (as alluded to) that the FCA was replaced as part of the injection pump. But after this work there came about the new symptoms as alluded to in my OP. Dealers were telling me this is normal. Another specialty shop cave me an opinion that alluded to worn injects causing my concerns. The most recent dealer concurred that injectors could be the cause.
Injectors I have come to learn are NOT part of the Cummins coverage unless a code is set. I had none according to the dealer. They could not warranty the injectors even though they indicated it is a cause of my complaint to them. Ask me how I know this... cause I tried as best I could in taking this concern high up the flagpole to the CARE call center. They will not cover new injectors even though I have been voicing this drive-ability concerns to 3 dealers.
"Do you have any idea exactly what injectors you had the old ones replaced with? Genuine Bosch or something else?"
the diesel specialty shop remans the injectors to new specifications in-house. They were some $1,500 less than the dealer to R&R and install new.
"Any idea on the cost of the injectors alone? That will be a good indication of what you have. " IIRC each were $350 after core refund.
"After the inector install, did you have a cylinder contribution test done to see where the percentages are at?" I do not believe this was done.
"Have you hooked up some heavy weight and driven the snot out of it for a while?" I have not put on the camper (#3000) since the repairs.
"At the altitude you are at carboning can be a real problem in the cylinder. " Would not the fuel system cleaning service by the dealer reduce some of the carbon build-up in the cylinder (or am I thinking totally wrong by asking this question?)
"The power loss is something else. Is this new noticed after the injector change, or, something that is different from 50k ago?" I seemed to notice the slight difference after the new injection pump (and turbo) install. Rattle gone, but not quite the same with the slight knock and power difference.
"How old is your clutch?" Stock original with 96,xxx miles.
"A perceived power loss could be injectors, or clutch, or memory dilution. It is really a perception thing at times. " (my highlight)
Absolutely! I could not agree more! In fact, with the 3 dealers and 1 brand specific shop telling me it is normal, it is worn/ dirty injectors/ no harm being done... well I kinda' listen to them as they are the experts. OK, I got it that DC will not cover no matter how hard I tried, so I bite the bullet and pay for new injectors.
I can tell a difference by the new injector install (my post earlier re: no RPM drop when clutching) But there are more prevalent symptoms now that I feel have been present all along, but are so much more evident with the recent work.
I am no diesel expert (even though I stayed a a Holiday Inn. . LOL) ... and call me crazy but there is something just 'aint right. I get that it is a diesel. I get that is not brand new. But everyone says that for less than 100K miles these things are just getting broken in. It 'aint running like that. I know this is a 95K motor. I do not mind investing in parts to keep it going. But somewhere somehow, something got missed because there are a lot of new parts that have been installed and it is not solving my issues (and is getting worse) that started out with a simple rattle. The rattle is gone, but all this other crap!!!
Thanks for listening, not just for the tech advice put also for having a "diesel psychiatrist's" couch available allowing me to vent.
EDIT: My original post about he rattle is here: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?232410-quot-Rattling-quot-type-sound-during-acceleration
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the diesel specialty shop remans the injectors to new specifications in-house. They were some $1,500 less than the dealer to R&R and install new.If you can find a dealer with certified NEW Bosch injectors and not the crappy Mexico remans, grab them. Most of the crap the dealers are over charging for is not worth the time to install.
In order to correctly and accurately reman a Bosch CR injector it takes precision equipment that costs about $1. 5 million and specialized training to operate it and do the reman correctly. Even Bosch will miss periodically on a reman injector and they are NOT sharing all the trade secrets to remans. The share just enough to suck in the shops willing to invest and turn them loose. ANY injection shop that claims to be able to adequately reman these injectors is highly suspect on the face of it. They may run and be better in some aspects but the performance of reman injectors has been abysmal to date.
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Would not the fuel system cleaning service by the dealer reduce some of the carbon build-up in the cylinder (or am I thinking totally wrong by asking this question?)Not completely. There is no way to clean it up with just a treatment. High sustained cylinder heat and miles is th eonly way to flush it out compeltely.
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I seemed to notice the slight difference after the new injection pump (and turbo) install. Rattle gone, but not quite the same with the slight knock and power difference.Since you noticed the difference after having it to the dealer I would bet they flashed the ECU with the updates that caused that. There were flashes meant for emissions, functionality, and starting issues with the manuals that did just what you describe, changed the way the truck felt and drove. In some case it was a 2-3 mpg hit on fuel mileage. What you have may be what it is from Dodge.
Address the "miss" you describe a little better. As I asked before, is this something you can feel or more an auditory thing? A cylinder contribution test would be a good thing to start with to see if these new injectors are performing correctly. An injector that is over fueling will introduce a pause, rattle, or a slight dead spot in a following one as the ECU compensates. That will show on the electronic tests.
Timing, duration, etc, are all handled by the ECU. Swapping parts does not require anything be reset, nor can most dealers even do that. That is reporgramming of the tables in the ECU. The most they can do is flash the ECU with the lates updates. Given that all the mechanical are good it shold make no difference.
The "machine-gunning" miss is more felt as opposed to heard. The ping/ detonation is audible. The "over fueling" that you mention: should not the new injectors prevent this... or is over fueling a function of the electrical components feeding the solenoids?
Are you actually feeling the truck buck as this is happening? A real faster shuddering maybe? Does it effect the mirrors or tach? Does it only happen at hard throttle? Light throttle? or ??
The over fueling is from tolerances to high on the fuel delivery circuit, pintle seats worn, injector not seating correctly after firing, etc. All the solenoids do is lift the pintle off the seat to allow high pressure fuel into the nozzle to be delivered. The solenoids themselves not function up to spec can cause rattle or surge or dead spots or other problems you feel. However, if a solenoid does not perform correctly by the electrical specs a code is set for the bank then for the individual injector.
That doesn't mean a solenoid is "good" because there are no codes, it just means the ECU could not determine there was a performance problem based on resistance, amperage, etc.
The same goes for the mechanical portion of the inejctor. If all the pieces ar enot to spec and do not work correctly the ECU does not know but you will for a variety of reasons. Here is a pictorial or a CR injector. The red areas are high pressure fuel, the yellow areas are operation pressure and circulation. There are several ports that circulate fuel around the solenoid to cool it, lubricate the moving pieces, and actuate the pintle for injection. The injector relies heavily on ALL the pieces to spec and very close tolerances. By pass too much fuel for cooling\lube, have small imperfections on the pintle rod or seat, or have ANY leaks sealing the nozzle to the body and it loses efficacy. There are springs in the injector that MUST operate at spec or the whole operation is out of synch.
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Yo Hoot
TDR MEMBER
What injector is that?
To clarify, correct me if I'm wrong... the solenoid does not lift the pintle off the seat. It opens a port that bleeds pressure off the top side causing the pintle to lift due to pressure imbalance. At least that's how I understood the injectors in my 04 work.
To clarify, correct me if I'm wrong... the solenoid does not lift the pintle off the seat. It opens a port that bleeds pressure off the top side causing the pintle to lift due to pressure imbalance. At least that's how I understood the injectors in my 04 work.
That is a cross section of a Bosch CR injector. You are correct, the solenoid lifts a pin that holds the check ball in its seat allowing rail pressure to lift the pintle by acting on the shround surface attached to the top of the pintle. The green arrow indicates the ball and seat that is the most common wear point. The yellow areas are orifced fuel return circuits for lube an cooling. Once those wear, along with the ball and saet, you start getting high return rates and rail pressure drops in the injector itself. the lube on the pintle itself is also critical as those tolerances are very close. Any marring will lead to hangs as the pintle opens and close. That last wear point is the pintle seat. If it does not seat correctly or fast enough you get extra fuel injectoed or dribbling between events.
The bulk of these injector failures are not electric and cannot be detected by the ECU. Mechanical portion failures will be for more prevalent. Thats why the dealer and\or Coprorate refusing to do anything unless a code is set is total BS. There ARE tests that will detect problems along with visual problems clues that cannot be ignored by a competent mechanic. Doesn't say a lot for a fair share of dealer mechanics, service advisors, or STARR help. That blasted truck could be sitting there shaking at an idle and puking out white smoke and a slong as there are no codes its bad fuel or needs ot be warmed up and they wash their hands of it.
A favorite trick when you take it in for a cold start problem is leave it in the shop overnight where it is warm so it starts an runs good when they test it. You then get the famous "Cannot replicate customer complaint" ticket. The streatment the OP is reporting is just too prevalent.
The bulk of these injector failures are not electric and cannot be detected by the ECU. Mechanical portion failures will be for more prevalent. Thats why the dealer and\or Coprorate refusing to do anything unless a code is set is total BS. There ARE tests that will detect problems along with visual problems clues that cannot be ignored by a competent mechanic. Doesn't say a lot for a fair share of dealer mechanics, service advisors, or STARR help. That blasted truck could be sitting there shaking at an idle and puking out white smoke and a slong as there are no codes its bad fuel or needs ot be warmed up and they wash their hands of it.
A favorite trick when you take it in for a cold start problem is leave it in the shop overnight where it is warm so it starts an runs good when they test it. You then get the famous "Cannot replicate customer complaint" ticket. The streatment the OP is reporting is just too prevalent.
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