Biodiesel SCAM

[cj hall]

biodiesel WHY?

Hello to all

Why are we stuck with Bio diesel ????? what are we going to do with the waste product?

the meth/soda-potash mix ?????

If you just burn it with out making it into biodiesel there is no waste product its gone.

Give me 30 gallons of clean veg oil I give you 35 gallons of biofuel blend that will work yes I need some petrol fuel to make mine. the mix i use is the same as running e85 85 % bio 15% petrol



If 130 gallons per acre of biodiesel if thats right then you get 160 gallons of vegoil



130 biodiesel and 35 gallons of waste (27% OF 130 ) This is what I have been told. this could be high



JUST REMEMBER BIO DIESEL IS THE BUY PRODUCT

THE REFINERS WANT THE GLYCERINE

ITS A MONEY THING

NOT A FUEL THING



crude oil is the product gasoline /diesel/propane/butane/ the list goes on, are all buy products or waste products.

there is a story in todays billings gazette about the tar sands of canada the conoco refinery is going to refine the heavy crude in billings for exchange for ownership of some of the tar sand in canada. they cost of getting this oil is somewhere in the 10 to 15 dollars per barrel that's 42 gallons but the price of oil is at 62 dollars per barrel and it states that this is way high for a crude oil at 10 to 15 (can we all say WOW THAT'S WRONG)



dont get me wrong we need fuel to run this country but its wrong for them to make that much money on a product thats that cheap its called greed



GOOD OLD AMERICAN GREED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! will take us to our death ... .....



cj hall

 

[DBond]

Hello to all

Why are we stuck with Bio diesel ????? what are we going to do with the waste product?

the meth/soda-potash mix ?????

If you just burn it with out making it into biodiesel there is no waste product its gone.

...



If 130 gallons per acre of biodiesel if thats right then you get 160 gallons of vegoil



130 biodiesel and 35 gallons of waste (27% OF 130 ) This is what I have been told. this could be high



JUST REMEMBER BIO DIESEL IS THE BUY PRODUCT

THE REFINERS WANT THE GLYCERINE

ITS A MONEY THING

NOT A FUEL THING



cj hall

I think it is great you are using Veg oil. Can I ask exactly what your blend is, what oil, what petro? What is the gel temp of your mix?



I have only used BD so far for several reasons which can be summarized as availability and testing. It is not practical or convenient for me to collect used oil, buy virgin oil, or make my own BD. I have not seen long term tests with engine teardown with veg oil on a HPCR engine. As information becomes available I will look into other alternatives. I am glad people like you are doing ground work.



I think the waste product form making BD is lower than you say. I have heard about 20% of the reaction is not BD, but much of that is the glycerine, which is a marketable product, and the residual alcohol can be recovered and reused in the next batch.



I have heard that the oil sands ("overall operations are profitable as long as world oil prices remain above $30 a barrel. " Motley fool Oh, Canada's Oil Sands) The differences in costs may be that stuff they extract form the sand is not crude oil as we know it, more like tar. This has to be processed "upgraded" to become the heavy crude that a refinery can process.

 

[cj hall]

hello debond

the oil that I use is canola/soy mix right now but all most any vegoil will work also it needs to be clear, not creamy or solid. Nonhydrognated oil is what it needs to be.

at this mix it will be good for use till about 30 degs if it gets colder then run more k1 or just mix in D2 if you do gell up the easy way to fix it is gasoline.

yes,yes I know I have heard that before but a little wont hurt i needed to put a little in on saturday 2 more gallons on top of 21 gallons of this mix then toped off with D2 its running just fine and the temps were in to the -teens



10% kerosine up to 25% (winter blend)

5% reg unleaded gas

dse style additive + power service (gray bottle)

05 gal = 1. 0 oz + 4. 0 oz

10 gal = 1. 5 oz + 7. 0 oz

15 gal = 2. 5 oz + 11. 0 oz

20 gal = 3. 5 oz + 15. 0 oz

25 gal = 4. 0 oz + 19. 0 oz

30 gal = 5. 0 oz + 22. 0 oz

35 gal = 6. 0 oz + 26. 0 oz

40 gal = 7. 0 oz + 30. 0 oz

45 gal = 7. 5 oz + 33. 0 oz

50 gal = 8. 5 oz + 37. 0 oz





have you read the thread i started last year about the dse type of fuel its got some great stuff in it



dse in truck 04/05 ctd

it will give you a bunch of info



thanks for reading



cj hall



heres a link to the billings gazette story

http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2006/11/30/news/local/20-oil.txt

 

[Champane Flight]

A lot of trouble for a maybe.....

Petrol fuel prices finally come close to the rest of the world market, and people in the (spoiled) US go into a panic. Blaming it all on big oil, and making their own diesel. Now I am all for bio fuels, it is a great idea. But, until we can get the bugs worked out I say, no thank you. Like the old car salesman when asked by a guy buying a Ferrari, "If you ask what the mileage is, you cannot afford this car"...



I admire fellers like cj and the rest burning WVO, I mean they are the ones with the cohones to experiment with their equipment and someday find some witchs brew that opens the door to a new fuel source. I just cannot make myself pour that stuff in my baby...

 

[cj hall]

fuel

Hello Champane Flight

First of all Thank You.

I think its fine that you won't put anything but diesel fuel in your truck. I understand that but I do blame the refinerys for the mess we are in along with the govt.

Last week I went to a town hall meeting on engery hosted by Conoco Refinery in Billings Montana. IF YOU HAVE A CHANCE GO TO ONE THERE HAVING THEM FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS.



The head of Conoco Refinery thinks that the fuel price we pay right now is low but he thinks that with some R and D we can help with the problem also is pushing nuke engery. WHAT? he thinks all the power should be made this way that will free up other fuels so his Co. can make more Gas and Diesel. He does not think we have a future in fuels other then what we have now. he thinks that e85 is a bandaid thinks the same about biodiesel . he only wants to refine crude oil . this person is a good talker sucked the croud in real fast acted like he really cared. the next day the paper in billings reported about the meeting and said all in all it went good they thought about 100 people would show up over 300 came and they tought that was good also the paper said the this head person board member/ceo of conoco makes over (The person that was there)makes over 31 million a year in wages that's 2. 583 million a month. 645,833. 32 per week 92,261. 902 der day ,that's 3,844. 2459 per hr based on 24 hrs per day BASED ON 8 HR A DAY THATS 11,532. 737 PER HR. I dont make that kind of money and I bet you dont make that kind of money but he thinks the price of fuel is to low. I would only have to work 2. 25 hrs to make my wage for a year.



I know that this is only one co and that all the big co's over pay the people that run them , but how much money does one person need he did not start this co he runs it. thats it.



THINGS WILL CHANGE but if we only take the biodiesel front then this amount of money will go to ADM or some other big co. if we can have a co-op of farmers planting/growing/crushing/selling vegoil and the end user doing what he wants to with it making biodiesel/blending it or running it as is the cost will be cheaper and yes maybe he might just think wow I did get paid to much as he standing at wal-mart greeting people.



sorry if this makes people mad but it make me mad when I see greed ,

Good Old American Greed,



NOT BUYING IT / NOT BUYING IN TO IT

cj hall



JUST A NOTE I SEE THAT THE REFINERYS GAVE US AN EARLY CHRISTMAS GIFT SOME TIME TODAY GAS UP 4 CENTS DIESEL UP 4 CENTS ALSO



MERRY CHRISTMAS BOYS AND GIRLS

 

[Champane Flight]

Thats ConocoPhillips....

Hello Champane Flight

First of all Thank You.

I think its fine that you won't put anything but diesel fuel in your truck. I understand that but I do blame the refinerys for the mess we are in along with the govt.

Last week I went to a town hall meeting on engery hosted by Conoco Refinery in Billings Montana. IF YOU HAVE A CHANCE GO TO ONE THERE HAVING THEM FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS.



The head of Conoco Refinery thinks that the fuel price we pay right now is low but he thinks that with some R and D we can help with the problem also is pushing nuke engery. WHAT? he thinks all the power should be made this way that will free up other fuels so his Co. can make more Gas and Diesel. He does not think we have a future in fuels other then what we have now. he thinks that e85 is a bandaid thinks the same about biodiesel . he only wants to refine crude oil . this person is a good talker sucked the croud in real fast acted like he really cared. the next day the paper in billings reported about the meeting and said all in all it went good they thought about 100 people would show up over 300 came and they tought that was good also the paper said the this head person board member/ceo of conoco makes over (The person that was there)makes over 31 million a year in wages that's 2. 583 million a month. 645,833. 32 per week 92,261. 902 der day ,that's 3,844. 2459 per hr based on 24 hrs per day BASED ON 8 HR A DAY THATS 11,532. 737 PER HR. I dont make that kind of money and I bet you dont make that kind of money but he thinks the price of fuel is to low. I would only have to work 2. 25 hrs to make my wage for a year.



I know that this is only one co and that all the big co's over pay the people that run them , but how much money does one person need he did not start this co he runs it. thats it.



THINGS WILL CHANGE but if we only take the biodiesel front then this amount of money will go to ADM or some other big co. if we can have a co-op of farmers planting/growing/crushing/selling vegoil and the end user doing what he wants to with it making biodiesel/blending it or running it as is the cost will be cheaper and yes maybe he might just think wow I did get paid to much as he standing at wal-mart greeting people.



sorry if this makes people mad but it make me mad when I see greed ,

Good Old American Greed,



NOT BUYING IT / NOT BUYING IN TO IT

cj hall



JUST A NOTE I SEE THAT THE REFINERYS GAVE US AN EARLY CHRISTMAS GIFT SOME TIME TODAY GAS UP 4 CENTS DIESEL UP 4 CENTS ALSO



MERRY CHRISTMAS BOYS AND GIRLS

For years the cost of fuel was stable, the oil companys struggled to hold their stock at a decent price. I heard no one saying "we need to subsidize the oil companys", like they do the airlines. No one bailed out the oil companys, and no one asked. The regulations came hard and fast that limited the building of new refineries and so no new refineries have been built for years. Now that the cost of oil is up it has driven the drilling of new wells in areas that were not profitable for decades. You also must realize that Billings would be a ghost town without that refinery. How many jobs do you think it provides the area?



I will give you a tip, BUY COP stock! We have several bio blending plants working in Minesota, we also have several ethanol jobbers working here in Colorado, we are expanding into those dreaded oil sands of Canada, we have holdings in Russia, Vietnam, Quatar, and all over the world.

I would not worry what Mulva has made, or is making. He has doubled our stock value, he deserves it, I might be able to retire before I die...

Here is some of the technology.

http://www.conocophillips.com/newsroom/news_releases/2005+News+Releases/111805_COP_to_install

 

[tgordon]

Hey champane, do you work for big oil?

What are the "bugs" you are refering to? last winter when they were having gelling problems in MN? I ran 20% blend all winter and never had a problem.

When somebody makes that much money, unless they actually did something new like an invention, most people call that greed. Warren Buffet is one of the richest men in the world and has his own investing company, he only makes $100,000/yr. I guess that is the differance between doing something for the company and doing it for yourself. If the airline CEOs would cut the salary of the top 5 positions in the airline what would be their savings? :-{} Heack if they were that bad off when the price was stable just cutting his salary in half would have covered that. What does he need more money for? I bet he has one heck of a severance package that amounts to more than you made the whole time you worked before retirement.

enough of that soap box

As for the jobs, how many jobs are created with every biodiesel/ethanol plant erected? Here in MI our economy is ranked about 49th because fuel cost is so high and our number one employer is the auto industry, but in a close second is agriculture and we are still adding more jobs in agriculture while the autos are losing.



CJ, those are some interesting calculations, and those unlike some others that people love to quote can actually be backed up As for the biofuels folks, all we have to do is look at Brazil where over 90% of cars operate on 100% ethanol. Rather than worrying about milage they started perfecting processing ethanol and compared to them the US ethanal industry is a mere infant and rather than reinventing the wheel they should be going there for ideas. As for the biodiesel after my wife finishes vet school and we settle down some where I am going to start experimenting with it myself. Right now I buy the biodiesel when I can because I would rather see my money go to the farmer than big oil paychecks :-laf

 

[obert]

#ad




How bout that in leau of typing?

 

[cj hall]

sorry conoco is conocophillips what did they sell dupont?



I would not worry what Mulva has made, or is making. He has doubled our stock value, he deserves it



he hasn't doubled anything but his wage wake up and smell the greed



if i could take a prouduct and make it all myself for around 15 to 20 cents per gallon and turnaround and sell it to people that have no way (they think) of making it themself for 2. 00 a gallon do you think i could make a lot of money?

do this on a grand scale and yes that works he might have doubled the stock price but he did it on the backs of americans him and all the rest of the greedy ceo of big oil co.



as far as a ghost town that wont happen ,to many people here if all the refinerys closed we would get more people here some one to clean up the mess they made. and are making!!!!!!!



one last thing if the names of these companys get any longer they might want to look it to nascar conocophillipscenexunion76citgobpmarathonfinaflynjsuncoexxontexacovp oil co is the proud sponser of the number 00 chevfordodge driven by some one thats great at turning left. its conoco get over it.



cj hall

 

[DBond]

How bout that in leau of typing?

great, thanks

 

[Champane Flight]

Sorry...

sorry conoco is conocophillips what did they sell dupont?



I would not worry what Mulva has made, or is making. He has doubled our stock value, he deserves it



he hasn't doubled anything but his wage wake up and smell the greed



if i could take a prouduct and make it all myself for around 15 to 20 cents per gallon and turnaround and sell it to people that have no way (they think) of making it themself for 2. 00 a gallon do you think i could make a lot of money?

do this on a grand scale and yes that works he might have doubled the stock price but he did it on the backs of americans him and all the rest of the greedy ceo of big oil co.



as far as a ghost town that wont happen ,to many people here if all the refinerys closed we would get more people here some one to clean up the mess they made. and are making!!!!!!!



one last thing if the names of these companys get any longer they might want to look it to nascar conocophillipscenexunion76citgobpmarathonfinaflynjsuncoexxontexacovp oil co is the proud sponser of the number 00 chevfordodge driven by some one thats great at turning left. its conoco get over it.



cj hall

You have been misinformed someplace along the line. . Phllips and Conoco merged in 2002, before that Phillips stock was running about forty dollars a share, Conoco was around thirty. They had held that price give or take a few bucks, since 1984, Phillips had actually still been recovering from a undercover buy out attempt and had come up from around seventeen bucks. In 02 the stock took another dump right after the merger. Then in 04 it took off, went from a 50 to 115, Before it split and is now running at 67.



I do not begrudge the CEO of a prosperous company his profit, it is not voted in by him, it is voted in by the board of directors. I do feel that if a company is not doing well it should reflect on his paycheck. He is the first one to take the heat when crap goes bad, which in buisness it does quite often. Contrary to belief, oil prices are not set by big oil, they are set by large producing nations such as Saudi, and oil brokers. The price of a tanker full of crude may change price several times before it hits port here in the US. .



Oh yes, bio is taking leaps forward, ConocoPhillips has made great strides in bio technology. They have been looking at different stock sources, such as different plants. It may not be long before we are all running on a 50% blend, or even a 75% blend in below zero weather. Like I said before, I applaud all of you for your inginuity and cohones to experiment with fuel sources. Me, I can still afford dino fuel, I only drive two miles to work, and most of the time can drive the TDI, which only needs a fill about once every two months! Oh yes, I do work for big oil, I put in around 100-150 hours every two weeks. They pay me well, I have a roof over my head and food on the table, I do not bite the hand that feeds me... Time to go to work...

 

[cj hall]

conoco

look i dont care who does what in the greed world of the oil co, what i care about is the fact that we in montana have oil that the refinerys wont buy and if they do buy it they only will give 30 to 35 dollars per barrel so dont tell me thay the oil companys dont set the price of oil!!!!!



and dont tell me its a transporation problem is a problem with the way the refinerys run greed greed greed thats what they run on



wake up look around we as americans are going broke making these oil companys rich



the oil companys just pass on the costs to us thats what all companys do. but i tell you we have to pay we dont get to pass on the cost to any one and when you only make a few dollars after working for the company that has money issues because the industery that they work for is dependit on fuel its kinda hard for me as one to stand there bentover the barrel and take it for to long . dont tell me these people care the only thing he cares about is himself and that my friend is greed just plain greed

 

[tgordon]

Obert, thank you for that letter, I have seen both of those studies. As somebody who has been forced to read these things and help write them for school I will say this, Numbers can always be fudged to make things go in your favor :-{} It all depends on how much one wants to include. I have also seen reports saying that biodiesel(not WVO CJ ) requires more energy that it yeilds also, then in an article they brought out the same fact that your does obert, it takes more energy for conoco to get that crude out of the sand and refine it than to produe biodiesel, have we forgetten what they tell about the three r's, reduce, reuse, recycle. Down by Ann Arbor there is actually a small company that has started doing what cj does in his garage. They started this spring and I have not heard anything since I read the article about them starting.



As for big oil, my opinion is that this past yearthey found out how much the market will bear when they rose the prices this summer and now they are just aobut the same as the renuable fuels, besides if we quite sending $$$ over to the middle east, how will they be able to fund that hating of the USA????



Champane, if what we pay for fuel now is closer to what it costs to produce it, why are they paying $. 50/gal or less other places???? and don't say because of the taxes :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[obert]

"Figures never lie..... liers alwasys figure. "



I'm not out to stick it to the man here, but I cant help but wander, when a copmany raises retail price to record shattering levels, crying hard times 'cause the raw cost is so high, how exactly would one justify proffit margins also increasing past record levels, month after month after month?



Doesnt stock value increase with profit margin? Im just a mechanic, if I new about that stuff I'd have to wear a suit to work.



Sorry Champaine, I like the way argued your point, but grandpaw worked for an oil co for many years, retired comfortably, but even he will gladly tell ya theyre all as crooked as a dogs hind leg.

OIL = $$$$ Too much $$$$ has a habit of bringin the ugly out in people.

(oh the irony-- Pink Floyd is on PBS plaing 'money' right now :-laf Oo. )

 

[Champane Flight]

Making money...

Obert, thank you for that letter, I have seen both of those studies. As somebody who has been forced to read these things and help write them for school I will say this, Numbers can always be fudged to make things go in your favor :-{} It all depends on how much one wants to include. I have also seen reports saying that biodiesel(not WVO CJ ) requires more energy that it yeilds also, then in an article they brought out the same fact that your does obert, it takes more energy for conoco to get that crude out of the sand and refine it than to produe biodiesel, have we forgetten what they tell about the three r's, reduce, reuse, recycle. Down by Ann Arbor there is actually a small company that has started doing what cj does in his garage. They started this spring and I have not heard anything since I read the article about them starting.



As for big oil, my opinion is that this past yearthey found out how much the market will bear when they rose the prices this summer and now they are just aobut the same as the renuable fuels, besides if we quite sending $$$ over to the middle east, how will they be able to fund that hating of the USA????



Champane, if what we pay for fuel now is closer to what it costs to produce it, why are they paying $. 50/gal or less other places???? and don't say because of the taxes :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf

For some reason people think that the oil companys are not supposed to make money? They are supposed to be some magnanomous source that gives its profits to all of you? Sorry, it is a business. I hear no one bellyaching about some large firm of lawyers giving themselves million dollar bonuses from a insurance company settlement, even if it does raise your rates. I see no one bellyaching about the USA giving Iraqis . 25 a gallon gasoline! How about those plywood prices! We are spoiled kids, given a cheap lollypop for years and years, hooked...



There are many factors ruling the price of fuel at the pumps, transportation, (contrary to popular belief, it does not magically appear at the pumps) government regulations, (yes EPA, DOT, and others actually rule what rates pipelines can run, even when proven to them that they are capable of higher pumping rates in a safe manner). Some areas do not have a pipeline in the area, fuel is delivered by truck and rail, extra cost. We now have boutique fuels, blended gasolines to suit EPA emission regulations for certain areas, this does not come cheap, and is not just for some areas, every area of the US demands a different fuel... . And of course ULSD, demanded by the government. .



Yes, sorry to say, greed has its place in this equation also, I have never seen it in my companys dealings however, I have seen it in individual dealers/jobbers though. I have seen it right here in River city, all of the dealers have banded together and set their prices the same. If anyone dares lower their price, through their combined buying power they can squeeze them out. That is why our little towns prices (right next to a pipeline and terminal) are ten cents higher than a town sixty miles away (same fuel)!



Stock prices have many factors for rising and falling, price of crude is the big one, speculation, fear, greed, solid business practices, futures, and even corruption. If all of you went out tomorrow and bought a million dollars a piece of COP stock, the price would rise... Another thing we could all do, reduce consumption! If everyone in the USA did not buy any petroleum products for just one week, the price would fall dramatically!



Greed is but a small factor involved with the oil buisness. If you think you have it bad take a look at some of the other areas of the world, some areas of europe are paying four/five dollars per LITER! Gasoline still is not as high as bottled water! Greed goes two ways, if some are too greedy to buy a product, don't buy it.

http://www.enertechlabs.com/price_of_fuel.htm



http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/price.html

 

[tgordon]

Yeah, sure on the pipelines. Jackson,MI about 5 yrs ago had a pipline leak and they denied it for a couple days, and why do they want to put in a new right of way to run another pipe line when they have not used up the area next to it that they already have it for? In europe, what are their taxes and why are the tires there so cheap? And back to the thing I still wounder about, Why does anyone need to make 31 million per year, our gevernment, as crooked as most of them are, are not even paking that much and the president does a lot more than that. Plus I would like to know some details, or broad facts, about what he will get for a pension after he leaves the company? :-{} As for making money, thats fine, it's when the profits are records, the ceo bonus and payments are record that I start to wounder if there is not some thing wrong with the eqation.



Two final final thoughts about alternative fuels. At this time we do not have the ability to operate completly on what we alone can produce, and yes there may be a negative energy balance. But what is the energy balance of converting the oil shale into diesel fuel? I belive the article I read said something about -60%, seems like we would be wasting more energy to fallow that route than to process the oil seeds.



Two, Lester Brown of Earth Policy Institute claims the amount of corn required to fill a 25 gallon suv tank with ethanol could feed one person for a year. At 100% ethanol that is a little shy of 9 bushels of corn. I wounder if they can find anyone willing to only eat corn and no more than nine bushels for the next year?

 

[EDankievitch]

I like how every one says that Biodiesel costs more than you get back. Who paid for those million years that it took to make the Dino Diesel. When we pump the stuff out of the ground we get it for free, but if you were to add up all the energy it took to make it would be many times what it takes to make Bio. Also the amount of Co2 you get from burning Boi is equal to what the crop will use when it grows. When you burn Dino oil you release Co2 that has not been around fro a million years. Hey nothing is the answer but we have to start some place. Waste deep frier oil is a great place to start. Get the facts Read Biodiesel Mag.



2005 6speed 4x4 quad cab stock, running on 100% Biodiesel for over 20,000 mi

 

[tgordon]

Sources other than oil seeds

My wife picked me up a magazine talking about sources of biodiesel other than oilseeds such as sunflowers and soybeans. They are talking about using animal grease and fat from slaughter houses. :--) It should work, heck we use to fry stuff in it.

 

[DBond]

My wife picked me up a magazine talking about sources of biodiesel other than oilseeds such as sunflowers and soybeans. They are talking about using animal grease and fat from slaughter houses. It should work, heck we use to fry stuff in it.

The issue with animal fats is the gel temps are higher than with soy / canola oil, and those aren't so great themselves. Now if it is being blended with lots of #2, and / or used in warm climates it's not an issue.

 

[cj hall]

This is a post that we should be looking at doing something with. Only 112 people have looked at it. the web site is cool ,will I think it is.





diesel fuel from garbage



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



There is a new technology to make synthetic diesel from solid waste. See this site : www.cleanenergyprojects.com . Estimated cost per gallon is $. 52 to $. 58 . Zero pollution ! Sounds to good to be true. The oil companies will fight it BIG TIME.





MAYBE HAVING A BIG GARBAGE DUMP WONT BE A BAD THING AFTER ALL

cj hall