Biodiesel SCAM

[tgordon]

I'm not claiming that it is the answer, just another thing to add into the equation. I just love it when people come up with one more way to turn one groups garbage into something everybody wants, in this case fuel, and they will give it to you or possibly even pay you to take it, all the better :-laf



I will have to check out the site you found tommarow CJ, what are you thinking we should do, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't mke them drink, just look a champane

 

[cj hall]

hey flight boy did you really say these four things



#1 There are many factors ruling the price of fuel at the pumps, transportation, (contrary to popular belief, it does not magically appear at the pumps)



so this is why in billings we pay more for diesel than they pay in bozeman 142 miles away they (the oil companys) must pump it up to bozeman then turn around and send it back to billings (where its made) then they must send it to your house so you can see it then back. sounds like the same old BS from the oil companys.



#2 Yes, sorry to say, greed has its place in this equation also, I have never seen it in my companys dealings however



what ???????? come to montana and see it!!!!! take off those rose colored glasses





#3 If everyone in the USA did not buy any petroleum products for just one week, the price would fall dramatically



ya that's the ticket while we are at it lets stop doing anything for a week



#4 Greed goes two ways, if some are too greedy to buy a product, don't buy it



ok come on you can do better than this, its not greed not to buy something its called smart.





i got this today in my email we will see if things change i got 100 bucks that says in 5 years nothing will come of this and some other high paid slacker will be running this company



Date (12. 04. 06)

Starting the Conversation

ConocoPhillips and Montana residents discuss national energy solutions



Montana residents joined ConocoPhillips and Montana State University-Billings late last month to kickoff a conversation about the country's energy future.



"How we meet the nation's growing energy needs is one of the most important issues our country currently faces," said Jim Mulva, ConocoPhillips chairman and chief executive officer. "It's clear that a variety of sources are necessary to secure America's energy future-from traditional sources like oil and gas to alternatives like renewable fuels and others yet to be known. To solve these energy constraints, we need new ideas from a diversity of sources. "



Reflecting that need for diversity, the event included panelists representing the Montana Farm Bureau, the Alternative Energy Resources Organization and the Big Sky Economic Development Authority. Presenters discussed a range of topics, from traditional oil and gas development and consumption to alternative energy sources and conservation issues.



The Billings event marks the start of a national listening tour over the next year. Findings developed during the tour will be incorporated into the company's long-term planning process. As the conversation evolves, we welcome you to participate. Your feedback is welcome.



Exploring New Horizons

ConocoPhillips scientists focus on developing renewable energy technologies



ConocoPhillips employs a team of about 250 scientists, engineers, and researchers to explore viable alternative and renewable energy sources. Our scientists are studying everything from clean-coal technology applications to liquefied natural gas initiatives.



A major area of interest is in hydrogen research, which is why ConocoPhillips is a partner in the Freedom Car & Fuel Partnership, a collaborative including the U. S. Department of Energy, automakers and energy companies. The partnership explores energy, environmental and economic attributes of various pathways to hydrogen production, as well as the merits of hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicles.

Related Media

Follow up on press coverage of the first listening tour event in Billings.



Billings Gazette: Conoco's chief kicks off campaign for credibility



Big Sky Business Journal: ConocoPhillips Takes a Hard Look at the Future -- for the Nation & Billings



KULR 8



Continuing Conversation

As part of ConocoPhillips national campaign on energy, we will continue to brief you on recent events and issues that become an integral part of this debate. If you would not like to continue to receive these monthly updates, please click here.





cj hall

 

[cj hall]

horse to water

hello tgordon



I emailed the gov telling him this is what we need in montana I will post his responce here if I get one. he's one of us sick of the oil greed.



the horse thing is true and sometimes you need to hit them with a 2x4 to get the point across.



cj hall

 

[J.BURCHFIELD]

The Horse and Buggy days must have a better time. You don't miss what you haven't had and you never had to listen to the worlds problems. Processed foods weren't yet invented and people were healthy and happy. The part that is most appealing there were no Dealers telling us we did not read the fine print. My hat is off to the Amish. They knew a good thing when they saw it. A one horsepower vehicle is all you need.

 

[DBond]

Date (12. 04. 06)

Starting the Conversation

...



Exploring New Horizons

ConocoPhillips scientists focus on developing renewable energy technologies



ConocoPhillips employs a team of about 250 scientists, engineers, and researchers to explore viable alternative and renewable energy sources. Our scientists are studying everything from clean-coal technology applications to liquefied natural gas initiatives.



A major area of interest is in hydrogen research, which is why ConocoPhillips is a partner in the Freedom Car & Fuel Partnership, a collaborative including the U. S. Department of Energy, automakers and energy companies. The partnership explores energy, environmental and economic attributes of various pathways to hydrogen production, as well as the merits of hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicles.

...

cj hall

Conoco really shows their cards here. They say "renewable" then talk coal, natural gas, and hydrogen. This is all fossil fuel. Yes commercial hydrogen is made from natural gas, that is why oil companies are interested in it.

 

[DBond]

so this is why in billings we pay more for diesel than they pay in bozeman 142 miles away

cj hall

When did you see this happen?

I spend a few months in Billings every year, and have always found Billings fuel cheaper than Bozeman. Right now I see it about $2. 74 in Billings vs $2. 84 in Bozeman. I'm not saying that this doesn't happen, there are many factors in price. The size of the market and how much competition are big factors too.

 

[cj hall]

Price

hello



diesel in billings 2. 84 at conoco on 24 and central this am also 2. 89 at conoco at the trading post by the highway



not sure why this is

the price is higher here most of the time, summer is the worst.



cj hall

 

[Champane Flight]

Flight boy?

Just another bunch of whinners, if you cannot afford to fuel your rigs, don't buy em... Go get a hybird... :-laf :-laf



How many gravity tests do you do on your bio before you put it in your tank? How many freeze tests? Flash tests? Sulfur level tests? Do you check your addititive amounts daily? Do you do conductivity tests? Three level testing to see if your fuel is stratified in the tank? I do understand you like to put gasoline in your diesel cj, that is a big mistake. When you can match the attention we give our diesel on a daily basis, I will think about putting bio in my truck.



ConocoPhillips is in the oil buisness, not homebrew, they also have been audited by the US government and no gouging has been found. If you guys want to blame someone for your high priced fuel, blame yourselves, your demand has risen the price of fuel, not the companys supplying it. Brainwashed? Do you think that some major oil company is supposed to give you their product? That prices are going to stay the same through the years? If you do, you are the ones who are brainwashed, not I.



http://www.eerc.und.nodak.edu/centersofexcellence/nafl.asp



http://www.amex.com/newsDetails/CmnNewsDet.jsp?id=XpressFeed_NewsDetails_1160585423268.html



http://www.environmental-expert.com/events/worldbiofuelsmarkets/worldbiofuelsmarkets.htm



Now if you want to take a few lines from the local meeting with ConocoPhillips and put them out of text, go right ahead, but it does not change the facts. Put your hats on boys, you might be freezing a few brain cells in the wilds of Montana... . :-laf

 

[cj hall]

fuel

ok so they test it



you need to remember a few things

the diesel was invented buy mr. r diesel not the oil refinerys

he ran his engine on vegoil not petrol

the oil companys had a waste product that with a little work to the diesel engine would burn in his engine

this is the start of the greed of the oil companys

they priced the waste product lower and what you could grow and make veg oil.



I have been told about one thousand times that I should not put gasoline in my diesel. but they dont say why? not sure I care !!!! THE AMOUNT IS SO SMALL. BUY THE WAY SOME OF THE ADDITIVES THEY PUT IN GAS/DIESEL WILL KILL YOU RIGHT, BUT THE AMOUNT IS SO SMALL.



All I am saying is we need other ways of powering this country what conoco wants is the same old, same old , they have done nothing as of yet and they won't they only want the same old same old.

wheres that 2x4 I need to swing it at someone



cj hall

 

[J.BURCHFIELD]

In the Philippines during WWII they ran the diesels in motor launches on Coconut oil. Don't know if it caused any problems. Rode only once (Nov. 43) in a launch using coconut oil. The diesel of choice for motor launches in the Philippines was Buda before WWII. Two big cylinders. Had to be heated with blow torches before they would start then hand cranked. Had to be a strong man. When you see things that fascinate you it is easy to remember, even if you are a kid.

 

[DBond]

Regardless of any calculations, the simple fact of the matter is, according to the best minds on the subject,-- using accepted farming practices of today, it takes 1 1/3 BTUs to produce 1 BTU of product...

Please give references to your source of this information.

Whose mind? What fuel? ...

DJW

Still waiting for the source of your statement.

 

[DBond]

I have been told about one thousand times that I should not put gasoline in my diesel. but they dont say why? not sure I care !!!! cj hall

A few reasons that I can think of;

gas has very low cetane and will lower the cetane of your fuel.

gas has very low flash point and will lower the flash point of your fuel

gas has no lubricity and will lower the lubricity of your fuel.



Now how much gas is too much, I have no idea. Biodiesel is higher than #2 in all the above specs, so MAYBE a small amount of gas in BD would be ok.

What is the cetane, flash point, lubricity of veg oil?

 

[cj hall]

gas in vegoil

Hello

I dont' run biodiesel you can't get any in billings?

C-TANE IS 40 TO 55 FLASH POINT IS ? LUBE ? IT'S A LOT MORE THAN DIESEL any one out there want to test or help pay for the test ????



the amount of gasoline to veg oil is 8oz of gas to . 9375 gallons of veg oil

so that's 2oz of gasoline per 30 oz of veg oil. Not Biodiesel



THATS 15 OZ OF VEG OIL TO 1 OZ OF GASOLINE



if I was running biodiesel ,I would not need to thin it.



This is the problem I see is that the refinerys want all of us to be dependent on then and we are I am I need them I can't make gasoline I don't want to . but what I am trying to say is that you can blend the high priced fuel they make with a waste product from cafe's to make a fuel that works. This wont replace petrol, nothing will. We need to find the next oil supply this one we have is not working. All the other things they want if you look at what they want only makes us more dependent on them.



This works I have done it.

I will only need to have 150 gallons of kerosine 75 gallons of gasoline and 15 gallons of powerservice and 2 or 3 gallons of the additive I make plus the used veg oil to last me 1 year so I can make my own fuel AND YES ALL OF THESE COME FROM REFINERYS



biodiesel is a start but the only reason the oil companys are ok with it is it needs to be refined DO WE ALL SEE THE WORD THAT MAKES THEM HAPPY

AND WE ALL KNOW WHERE METHANOL COMES FROM RIGHT !!!!



cj hall

 

[DonS]

I use waste veg oil



the amount of gasoline to veg oil is 8oz of gas to . 9375 gallons of veg oil

so that's 2oz of gasoline per 120 oz of veg oil. Not Biodiesel

Where I live, a gallon is 128 fluid ounces. 8 ounces of gasoline per gallon of "blend" is an 8 : 120 gas : oil ratio, not 2 : 120.

 

[cj hall]

Ratio

thanks i fixed that

 

[DonS]

thanks i fixed that

Don't forget to fix the "THATS 15 OZ OF VEG OIL TO 1/2 OZ OF GASOLINE" part. It's 15:1.

 

[cj hall]

fuel

15 to 1 thanks, is this the same mix as a martini ? its close



cj hall

 

[DJW]

CBond reply to your question re ratio 1BTU to 1 1/3 was in a technical paper regarding alternative scorces of energy, can't quote Page, Chapter and Verse.



CF regarding the oil shortage some years ago, I have a friend a Mate on a tanker and at that time, he said there were brand new tankers on the hook in a fiord in Norway, and using a Tankers' expression he said that they never ever had oil in their bottoms, meaning never to have carried oil, and at the present supply of crude no cargos for the forseeable future, they were stored in the fiords as the fiords were fresh water, therefore free of salt water marine growth. Also around that time I was working at a plant to upgrade it, they also wanted to install more ovens. Their utilites supplier told them they could not increase their present supply of natural gas as they simply didn't have it to give. The plant's bill for natural gas was $5 M per year. Yes, I have a sneeky feeling those on the supply side may have a slight knowledge of the business. There was plenty of Sharking going on, but the fact remains there was a shortage at the time, as in War short supplies = Black Market.

 

[tgordon]

The Billings event marks the start of a national listening tour over the next year. Findings developed during the tour will be incorporated into the company's long-term planning process. As the conversation evolves, we welcome you to participate. Your feedback is welcome.



AKA: We have no ideas aand are looking for yours so we can take them for our own and make the money off of them so you don't, and even if you do we will come up with a way to squish you like a bug!



Just my interpertation of that one CJ



As for blending gasoline with diesel, why do I have a JD 4850 with over 10,000 hours of hard work that the engine has never had to be torn into and every winter we mix gasoline with the diesel to keep it from gelling. I don't know why but it is the only trackor we have this problem with and they are all fed out of the same tank.



DJW you seem to know how much energy it take to get the alternative power, but nobody has ofered up numbers on how much it takes to get the conventional to maket, any takers?????



FLight, I hope you never complain about the price of food. Especially considering farmers got little more for their commodities than their ancestors 3 generations ago. For now the price of grain has taken a jump and how long it will last there is anyones guess. If the oil companies care so much about products and not money, why have they not looked into bio based lubricants? A little crushing company called Thumb Oilseed had a great one for a while and now I cannot seem to find it. They had a contract to sell it to the USPS because they have to report every ounce of enviromental contaminate they go through and this would save them some time. Last I heard about it they were having trouble getting any sort of certification for it because the API would not give a rating for it because they only rate petroleum products, yet they also develop the standards that the oil blew away. Isn't that funny it is superior to what we can make so we won't rate it, perfect example of big oil squishing out any potential competition.

 

[cj hall]

tgordon



thats a good one :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf lol



as far as your 4850 is the tank exposed to more outside air than the other ones that might be an issue. not sure where the tank is mounted on those things.



how much gas do you put in the tank.



cj hall