bomber lite, other mild turbo options for 3G trucks?

[JDerbedrossian]

wasnt ats comming out with a big turbo for direct bolt application with adapter. i saw their truck in tulare and it was on the truck but still in development

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

ATS is still in development, and Steve Benson told me it probably won't be ready by May Madness.

If you use a relatively small exhaust housing on the bigger turbo for better spoolup, and wastegate it, you will have fun getting clearance to the engine block. DD made up special parts to achieve clearance. Their custom compressor discharge elbow costs them more than you would expect. First they have to buy an oddball elbow from Cummins. Then it has to be cut, jigged up, and heli arc welded back together. Next they use custom hose and an intricately bent pipe to the intercooler. The result is that everything fits like the proverbial glove. Some hate to pay for a "kit" over a bare turbo, but then spend days fabricating the parts to make the turbo work. Bolting it to the exhaust manifold is the easy part.



I expect that by May Madness we will see some significant progress in the turbo world for the third gen Rams. However, it is more complex than for the second gens. I put a variety of bigger turbos onto my '97, with not too much pain, but much more fabrication is needed with the new '04. The better offerings will come with the parts to complete the installation.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I wonder how much the lousy stock manifold plays into the EGT issue? I think the ATS is more of an improvement over stock on the 3rd Gens than the 2nd Gens comparing stock to ATS, judging by the 3G pictures I've seen of it. Erratic turbulent exhaust airflow can't be a positive thing.



Vaughn

 

[RDietze]

bomber lite

the diesel dynamics MB103 sells for $1650 -- this is a far cry from piers $300 bucks 35/40. sure, dd's product is quite a bit more capable but where i am sitting, i say for nearly 2K you may as well wait for the innovations in turbos that are nearing production-reality - i think a ball bearing turbo would solve a lot of folks' problems - at least mine

till then, spending $300 will satisfy my immediate WANTS (i would have said NEEDS, but who am i kidding )





QUESTION: what are the ingredients to DDs turbo - is it a 40, a hybrid... . what?

 

[DLeno]

from my reading and talking with DD, their turbo is a new design, not really patterned after anything. Well, you gotta know that they were influenced by succesful designs out there; they won't tell us that, but it appears that it really isn't a hybrid or combination of parts from other turbos. They made the geometries precisely to fit the 03-04 trucks.



For me the jury is still out but at first glance I get pretty excited about the DD turbo. Then I let out a sigh of disapointment because you have to get their intake system as well and I am left asking why. I'm sure there are reasons, just like Banks exhaust isnt' compatible with the BD exhaust brake, but I dont like that approach. The kit approach is cool, don't get me wrong -- but if it cannot accomodate the standard intake plumbing connections then nobody else's intake system will work. maybe thats the only way they could achieve certain results, but it smells a little like marketing planning to me. I'd at least want to see a good credible explanation (like the new turbo just cannot be built to preserve std plumbing connections) why they chose not to target std connections. Kieth can you elighten us?



On the Piersified HY. this has a great deal of appeal to me because, like RDietze said, there is a good ROI there. Piers is saying this will buy 125 degrees and that some are reporting 200. Note that their not really saying "400 HP", they are saying "EGT reduction". I wish there was more information available about its behavior with the 6 speeds. an HX40 compressor with a 9 cm exhaust housing is pretty amazing to me, given what I've been reading.



yea, I think its reasonable to hamstring the TST box with EGT-based fuel cutback and use it on a bone stock truck. Such an approach allows the box to be the first and only mod initially, and paves the way for a lot more smiles when the dollars are available. You can make small incremental improvements with intake, exhaust, fuel system, piersified turbo, manifold, and then when you have an extra $1600 get a serious turbo.

 

[nascar mark]

Just to clear up some confusion! PDR will have 3 different confiqureations of the 03/04 turbo's once Cgarling receives his turbo. Chris will be testing a G1 turbo for his 03 which has a larger front wheel and a larger rear wheel with a machined out exhaust housing etc. If the turbo performs well, it should pull harder and have even lower egt's on the mid & top end.

Of course if this turbo works out, the cost down the road will be more than the $300 turbo's that are currently available due to more machining and parts needed to make such a turbo.

Other customers have one of the other 2 different compressor wheels on their turbo's. I don't know were the Bomber Lite name came from, as we haven't named our 03/04 turbo's yet.

We are trying or best to bring our customers a less costly alternative to the other big $$ turbo's.



Mark

PDR

 

[DLeno]

great comments, Mark. thanks for clearing that up! I for one will be axiously awaiting the possible low cost re-work of the stock turbo that has larger back wheel and machined exhaust housing. That concept has great appeal to me because, as long as the cost is reasonable, it may still represent a significant and measureable performance improvement without having to throw away the stock turbo altogether, and become a good stepping stone towards a complete replacement.

 

[nickleinonen]

Originally posted by Hawkeye 04

Are there any turbo options for the 600 or is that another subject all by itself? Also, what is the general cost for a piers and DD for the 03-04? Do they have better "whistling" capabilties? Sorry about my ignorance, but I never pursued the issue before...

the 600 has sensors in the compressor housing too... along with the electronic w/g. there looks to be a speed sensor for the turbo and a temp sensor for the air charge all in the compressor housing.

 

[KLockliear]

Originally posted by DLeno

Then I let out a sigh of disapointment because you have to get their intake system as well and I am left asking why. I'm sure there are reasons, just like Banks exhaust isnt' compatible with the BD exhaust brake, but I dont like that approach. The kit approach is cool, don't get me wrong -- but if it cannot accomodate the standard intake plumbing connections then nobody else's intake system will work. maybe thats the only way they could achieve certain results, but it smells a little like marketing planning to me. I'd at least want to see a good credible explanation (like the new turbo just cannot be built to preserve std plumbing connections) why they chose not to target std connections. Kieth can you elighten us?

Sure, I have the answer here actually. When we first starting playing with our 3G truck, there were no mods available. By the time we determined that injectors already overstretched the stock turbo, we had just put on a conical AFE kinda like what came in the older Dodge kit. We already knew the airbox was extremely restricting and were waiting for AFE to get a box built.



Moving on, we designed and built the turbo kit for the truck. Once Lawrence was happy with it all, I got back on the phone to AFE to find out where the airbox was. Still not even in R&D yet. Well, we built our own. After many, many phone calls, and even seeing them at SEMA in 2001, we determined they were not interested in using our design and that their production schedule was way slower than what we wanted. After all, we couldn't sell a single turbo kit until someone had an airbox.



So we did a production run of our own box. Trust me, with everything else on our plate already, we were not looking at getting into the airbox business... but when all other things hinge on one piece, the boss gets to work. Obviously the piping that we designed for the turbo kit was setup to work with the box we built, so that's why we say you need our box.



If you want to run our turbo kit with any other box out there, that's fine, but you'll probably be fabbing or at least modifying the tubing between the turbo and airbox yourself. Each airbox has a certain height and angle of outlet piping, and that's what you have to line up with. Like I can tell you the Air Raid and K&N systems put the outlet pipe almost 4 inches too high to work with our kit. Sure, you can extend the piping with another set of clamps, another piece of hose and piece of pipe, but that's not what we want to offer our customers. If that is your choice though, more power to ya.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Originally posted by nascar mark

I don't know were the Bomber Lite name came from, as we haven't named our 03/04 turbo's yet.

Mark you can blame me for the "Bomber Lite" moniker. . . I just wanted to name it something to make it easier to discuss and call it what I expect it to be.



I realize I was probably jumping the gun to discuss this turbo and it's not really ready to be officially marketed but I kept seeing posts pointing to a need where this turbo would fill a void and wanted to let people know something is coming down the pike. I was quite impressed with the turbo I ran, the very first one he modified, even though he's planning more R&D.



This all started after I asked/encouraged Piers to do such a thing since I realized there was a turbo void for the HPCR Cummins. He had one laying around so he modified it and let me run it as well as BHaner. Next it's going to another truck then back on mine next month.



I don't know Piers wants to go about selling the turbos, whether to go with a "send it in to be modified" approach or like the PDR35s for the 2nd gens where your purchase a modified turbo outright for $700ish.



The $300 tossed around came from my comment on another thread the 3G turbo with modified compressor housing only would be in the $300s. . . most likely more than $300.



If I've drummed up interest in a Piers 3G HY35 in the wrong way or been misleading I appologize, especially if he decides to go with selling outright for much more than $300 and end up making a few guys unhappy on my part.



I am happy to hear PDR is doing one with a modified exhaust housing, we all know how much help that side needs!



Vaughn

 

[CurtisvilleCummins]

Guys,I know 3G is completly different,I have the DD turbo on a 96 12v. it spools better than the 35/16 i took off,egts down by 200 to 300 degrees pulling some pretty steep hills at 70 to 100 MPH .

 

[Metalaram]

hey vaughn actually mark and i were talking last week and we did name the turbo you called bomber lite. it is now officially FRED! which personally i like that name better than the one im getting the G1. maybe we can change the G1 to BARNEY!. anyway i should be recieving barney and a black coated ATS manifold middle of the week and it will be installed on saturday. i will post on it after the 200 mile break in when i can get on it. this should be a lot of fun!!!... . chris

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Well then cgarling, you go ahead and flog Barney and in the meantime I'll run the caca out of Fred :-laf

 

[DLeno]

DD air box

thanks for the comments, Kieth. well I assume then that it was not possible for the new turbo to be mfg with an intake that accomodated the stock intake connections. not that you would want to use the stock box, but in the interest of standardization it would have been nice. that way, everyone else's intake box that was built to hook up to the stock turbo would work with your turbo. I'm guessing, without having seen you turbo, that the geometries were just to gnarly and you couldn't support the standard intake geometries?



Oh, and vaughn and BHaner: II'll be waiting for Fred to be evaluated...

 

[KLockliear]

The stock airbox doesn't flow enough for a stock motor with an EZ... it would never flow enough for a higher HP motor with a bigger turbo. No point in making anything work with the stock airbox.

 

[DLeno]

I think you missed my point. I'm not suggesting the use of the stock airbox with an upgraded turbo, as that would indeed be silly. I'm asking why the new turbo could not have been designed with generic intake connections in mind. I could be mistaken, but I do not believe the B1 requires a proprietary air box and can be used with a pro-gaurd-7, scotty III, etc. folks can chime in and calibrate me on that, please.



I may not have the whole picture here. What I'm noticing i(and wondering about) s that there are several air boxes now that hook up to the stock turbo. they all designed around the stock turbo connections and will for that reason hook up to any turbo that presents the same intake hookup geometries. Your turbo does not present the same intake connection geometries and so cannot be used with any of those after market air boxes already out there. why?



standardization, man. its a beautiful thing when it can be accomplished.

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

When DD built the turbo there were no aftermarket airboxes out yet. They tried to get AFE to build one to no avail. They (DD) are the inovators in the industry and cant wait for everyone to catch up. How many other airboxes do you need Leno? Only got one intake right? Get the box that bolts up to your turbo. I will probably run the DD turbo in the future. Therefore I will buy their box when the time is right.



Just to make things clear..... I only run their stuff that I can afford to buy. I haven't even gotten a free shirt yet!

 

[Agades]

Im running a scotty 3 and would like to keep it



has anyone tried to hook up a scotty to the DD turbo??



send me a turbo, Ill try it Oo.

 

[ChrisRyan]

I know im coming in kinda late here but I have been tearing my 03 3500 down so missed the start.



what about a turbo for about 500rwhp?

My Hx-40 didnt last very long even though never pushed more than 40 psi with it(broken shaft inside of 3 weeks) but im pretty hard on things.

 

[KLockliear]

DLeno, as Greg said, nothing else was out when we designed ours, so there was nothing to standarize against. We built ours to work with what we had built for a turbo, then standardized the airbox to work with the stock turbo.



There's the standardization.