Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Broken truck with alot of money invested

[PMerrill]

Hello all,



My 1996 Dodge 3500 4x4 exhibited oil in the coolant. I replaced the head gasket and had the head checked, flatened and a valve job done. After reinstalling head I still had oil in coolant, only this time I had water in coolant also. Removed head again and also removed oil cooler. Took oil cooler to Cummins and had them check it for leaks. They found no leaks, reinstalled oil cooler with new gaskets. Found that I had damaged head gasket while reinstalling head. Replaced head gasket again, only this time I placed the head on the block with no gasket installed then raised it straight up and carefully slid gasket under head and placed head straight back down. After getting it running again was getting alot of pressure out of the overflow tube into the overflow bottle. Shut engine down and check oil level. Level was right where I had placed it. engine had run for about an hour during this process. Started back up this morning (1/22) to flush radiator some more. Checked oil level again and had water in the oil again. Just a note, I have used only Cummins parts. I have come to the decision to replace the engine. I am working on a limited budget just like everyone else. I have done several other things such as KDP repair and installed (I know) Banks Git Kit. Also had a clutch installed approximately 3 months before first head gasket replacement and had only put about 200 miles on it. After replacing head gasket the first time I drove it some and as soon as I started driving it the clutch started squalling. Took back to the guy who had installed it and explained the situation and he charged me an additional $750. 00 on top of the $900. 00 he charged me the first time he replaced the clutch. Upon asking what happened to previous clutch I was advised that the pressure plate springs had fell out of the plate. Needless to say I will never use him again for any repairs what so ever. I guess you can feel my frustration with all of this. I love this truck and use it to pull my 37'6" travel trailer (Even though it has been broken down since I have owned this trailer). The reason I am writing this (sorry if it is to long) is to ask if you guys can help me find an engine that I can install back in this great truck and hopefully get it back up and running? I have contacted Cummins and they have given me a price of $7,815 and some cents for a reman. My truck has 139,000 on it and this problem has destroyed me because I counted on this truck to last me at least a half million miles.



Thanks for lending an ear and I would appreciate any help anyone can give.

I am friends with Big Poppa and he is also on the case.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Just for the heck of it check your engine oil cooler. It is behind the oill fliter take it out and pressure test it they have been known to leak.



Go with a South Bend Clutch.

 

[SRath]

He already had the oil cooler tested by the local Cummins shop, Bill, if I read correctly.

(Excuse me for breaking down your story into paragraphs or events, but it is a little hard to read and follow as you typed it):

1>My 1996 Dodge 3500 4x4 exhibited oil in the coolant.
>>>I replaced the head gasket and had the head checked, flatened and a valve job done.

But you noticed no coolant in the oil this 1st time?

2>After reinstalling head I still had oil in coolant, only this time I had water in coolant also. (I believe he meant "coolant in his oil" this time, too)
>>>Removed head again and also removed oil cooler.
>>>Took oil cooler to Cummins and had them check it for leaks. They found no leaks, reinstalled oil cooler with new gaskets.
>>>Found that I had damaged head gasket while reinstalling head. Replaced head gasket again, only this time I placed the head on the block with no gasket installed then raised it straight up and carefully slid gasket under head and placed head straight back down.

Did you flush ALL the oil from the cooling system (is that even possible?) and coolant from the oil system? If so, how? I would have the oil cooler pressure & leak tested again, but this time by an experienced radiator repair shop.

3>After getting it running again was getting alot of pressure out of the overflow tube into the overflow bottle.
>>>Shut engine down and check oil level. Level was right where I had placed it. engine had run for about an hour during this process.

Now this statement sounds like you are getting compression gases in your cooling system like a bad head gasket or cracked head or cylinder would cause. Personally, it sounds like a cracked cylinder to me, assuming you can trust the testing and work done by the machine shop on your head. Another damaged gasket is also possible.

On a gasoline motor, you can put a tester with dye on your radiator while the engine is running. If combustion gases are present in your cooling system, the dye will change color. Auto Zone rents the tester and sells the dye. I assume it would work on a diesel as well, but can't say for sure.


4>Started back up this morning (1/22) to flush radiator some more. Checked oil level again and had water in the oil again.

So does this, though it could be remaining residual coolant from the first go-round.

Just a note, I have used only Cummins parts. I have come to the decision to replace the engine. I am working on a limited budget just like everyone else. I have done several other things such as KDP repair and installed (I know) Banks Git Kit.

5>Also had a clutch installed approximately 3 months before first head gasket replacement and had only put about 200 miles on it.

6>After replacing head gasket the first time I drove it some and as soon as I started driving it the clutch started squalling.
>>>Took back to the guy who had installed it and explained the situation and he charged me an additional $750. 00 on top of the $900. 00 he charged me the first time he replaced the clutch.
>>>Upon asking what happened to previous clutch I was advised that the pressure plate springs had fell out of the plate.

This has me baffled. The question here is: Is this botched new clutch job in any way related or responsible for the coolant-to-oil and oil-to-coolant issues? It doesn't seem likely, but the proximity in time of the 2 events is suspicious. And how in the world does ANY new clutch fall apart in 200 miles if it was installed correctly? Did the guy install the disc backwards? How did he support the motor? Could anything he did doing R&R even possibly have damaged or cracked any component causing the oil/coolant problems?

I have no advice having had no similar experiences with any of the above on a Cummins, but I do wonder if it is possible for oil and coolant to interchange due to a bad water pump after reading this?

I sure hope one of the more qualified guys here can help you figure this out. Good luck.

 

[hsmith]

I'm saying oil/coolant contamination from the water pump is not possible. Would not be the first time I have been wrong though.

 

[flyby night]

How are you bleeding the air out of the cooling system after getting engine back up and running? They can overheat very quickly with air trapped in the cooling system.

Definitely get the oil cooler tested by a reputable radiator shop.

I think I have seen a cylinder leak tester that fits in the injector holes in the head. This may help with some of the head gasket diagnosis.

oil/coolant contamination from the water pump is not possible on the cummins as there is no oil near the water pump like on other engines such as Detroit S60's and on them it is something that is unlikely.

 

[PMerrill]

While filling radiator I have the upper radiator hose disconnected from thermostat housing. Engine temperature stays below 190 while idling and that is all it has done since being put back together. I believe Cummins would be pretty reputable at checking oil cooler, that is who checked mine and gave it a good bill of health.

 

[flyby night]

Don't get me wrong, Cummins makes a great product. Their representation by their network of service/repair distributors, is in my opinion often lacking. I have had experience with Cummins actually causing more problems than they solve. Just cause they are Cummins, does not mean they can not make a mistake or miss something. If it were me I would rather spend a buck or two getting a second opinion on the oil cooler, before a new motor. If you end up pulling the head off again, you can get a 3 step product for identifying cracks. I would follow the directions and check each cylinder bore.
I would have to look at it again, or someone on here might know, if it is possible to have this problem with any gaskets in the front cover?

Good luck, hopefully you can save the motor!

 

[hsmith]

As one poster said recently," Trying to keep the Dodge parts from falling off the Cummins engine" can be a challenge at times.

 

[PMerrill]

Thanks so much for the interest. I did not replace the dowels while replacing the head gasket and have been told that these dowels can sometimes throw the mating surfaces off. Twisted Shifter has agreed to come on board and help me. So here we go with tearing the head off again. Thanks again for everyones interest in helping me to resolve this issue, I will let you know how it goes from here.

 

[DThweatt]

if you do need a reman. you can check rockauto .com. they sell marshall reman eng/trans.



I priced a reman through them and it was 3500 for a long block i believe. they also have an ext warranty on the motor.

 

[BDaugherty]

Did you have the head checked for cracks?

 

[SRath]

One of our Cummins Volvo tractors came into the shop this morning with the radiator overflow reservoir thick and milky with oil. The oil looks the same.

It was the cooler.

The motor still ran with no knocking or other problems, but they were figuring on a complete overhaul. I suggested a series of flushes followed by just running it locally for a while and see what happens. The worst would be a short towing bill and the overhaul. Maybe I'm wrong, but that motor still sounded pretty good.

 

[PMerrill]

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!! After two years I have some answers. Cavitation hole in #5 cylinder. Installing short block. Don't believe the hype that a Cummins 12valve will not have problems with cavitation. If you run a quality coolant in it you will probably be safe. But I can tell you mine will be run with DCA additive in it from now on. Even with all the problems I have had with this one issue I still own the best diesel truck on the market. Thanks for everyones post and attempts to help. TDR is #1 in my book.

 

[Skydiver]

First I've ever heard of that. I work with water every day. Does your water have a high hardness content?
I had a cousin that replaced nearly every thing on his ford 6. 9 17 years ago and was still spewing compression. You guesed it. Hole in cylinder wall.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Good reason to use Distilled water instead of tap/well water.