Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Cheap High Idle, Oem Feature?

[Gizmo 007]

ARRRGH!! Nothing should be this difficult!!



I checked out a dealer in Corsicana about this. They agreed to let me use the DRBIII. The tech plugged the DRB into the truck and started going through settings that are available. Can find nothing about PTO or Power Take Off anywhere. We set up the cruise control for smother operation and tweaked the VTSS and unplugged. The DRBIII is the only computer the dealership has.



Lo and Behold, my PTO no longer works at all, not even to 950(AAARRRGGG )!!! So I decide to call Cummins Southern Plains in Dallas. I spoke with the lead tech there. He did a lot of research in the Chrsyler ECM book that comes with Insite, but found nothing about a PTO feature :--) ! I may still go up there and test it, but I'm not sure when I can go. I'm about 1 - 1. 5 hours away, and attending college classes beginning Monday.



dsldoug, please elaborate on the MDS. This may be just what we are looking for.



Anything else guys? This is going to get bad quick.

 

[Mad Max]

I'M STILL IN...

My state inspection is up in Sept, I've already coordinated with my stealership to get in and do this. I faxed them the settings I would like, but I have not spoken with their tech to see what he's found out. Hopefully in a week or two I'll know if they can do anything, they do have the MDS system there.



This should not be this hard, the Jacob's e-brake sold through Cummins and DODGE require reprograming to enable the E-brake control feature on our ECMs. Now the clowms at CSP that hooked INSITE up to the Diagnostic port on my VP44 could not even access a menu, let alone kind the E-brake feature which has to be there, SO I KNOW THEY MESSED UP.



The Saga Continues.



MaX

 

[milehiscott]

I have news, but it's not good.

I went up to Rocky Mountain Cummins today and talked to their "Dodge Expert". He said that Cummins puts in 2 50 pin connectors for the ECM. Box #2 is the one that they would use to put on a switch for the PTO. However, Dodge only has 1 50 pin connector box. Therefore, Cummins CAN'T activate the PTO option as it is controlled through the Dodge ECM.

But wait!! There's more!

He also said that, even though there is the wiring, etc for a PTO on the trucks, Dodge did not put the program into the ECM. The ECM does not have the paramaters for a PTO.



He sugested that we look into a company in Saskatuan (sp?), Canada. It is either Pro Diesel or Diesel Pro. They make a widget that hooks into the cruse control servo and has all the wiring diagrams with it. And yes there is a problem with this also. The 2001 and newer 6 speeds no longer have the servo. They are controlled by the ECM. The Auto still has the servo, and he wasn't sure about the 5 speeds.



The end of what I get out of this (and at this point it's clear as mud ) we need to get some one higher up than a Dodge dealer (i. e. regional mgr. ) involved. However, it is definitely something that Dodge has to do. :{



Scott

 

[w-cummins]

Well there is a Pin on the dodge 50 pin ECM for the PTO it's pin 26 POT sence. There is NOT a pin for the e-brake like there is on the cummins 100 pin ecm. I have a 100 pin ECM I'm going to try to run on my motor but it looks like it will require a NEW engine ECM wire loom and I bet that will be KA-CHING $$$ I may have to open up the 100 pin ecm to take a look at it as it's marked with a Motorola sticker "sample for engineering evaluation only" and and "Motorola Confidental proprietary"

 

[TxDieselKid]

ok, now wait a second guys.



1)Giz took it to the dealer who hooked up a LAPTOP COMPUTER, and got it to work. DRB DON'T WORK.



2)People who have TALKED to techs about it say it can't be done, but people WHO HAVE WORKED WITH INSITE say it can.



Looks like you got to goto a GOOD Cummins Shop that actually KNOWS something about OUR ISB, or is willing to test, and find out. Just because they say Cummins don't mean they know anything about the ISB. For an example, the Cummins place in Lufkin had it put on the sign, "Now servicing ISB's". So I walked in for a oil filter and they didn't have one.



Keep looking guys as I too am waiting.



MadMax, let me know because I know we are close in location.



Andrew

 

[Michael Hughes]

Mad Max,

I didn't have to do anything to use my Jake brake. I just ran the wire to the ECM connector and it worked. Have they changed this with the new trucks? I have a 1999.

 

[thepitts]

My manuals

My factory manuals for my 2001 dos list the PTO and how it works but does not list how to make it work.

 

[Mad Max]

Michael H.

Apparently only the 98 1/2's need to be calibrated, the rest come programed, but one would presume that it is still in the features menu as it was for the early 24V's.



Here's a link to the Jacob's instructions if you're curious.



http://www.jakebrake.com/service/pdf/025997.pdf



See "IMPORTANT!" on the bottom left of page 2.



MaX



Ps. Sorry about the confussion.

 

[w-cummins]

I see the pin that the e-brake is using is not listed as having a function on my dodge ECM wiring diagram. there are other pins that appear not to be "used" does any one know what they are for? Pin 19 I now know, the others are 20, 22, 24, 43, and 46. I assumed that the listing was complete when I looked at it ( did not see the missing numbers



William...

 

[Texas Diesel]

Re: My manuals

Originally posted by thepitts

My factory manuals for my 2001 dos list the PTO and how it works but does not list how to make it work.

@#$% #$%%*()*(_)*@#$%326^&*%^&* Chrysler

 

[milehiscott]

Originally posted by TxDieselKid

Looks like you got to goto a GOOD Cummins Shop that actually KNOWS something about OUR ISB, or is willing to test, and find out.



Andrew

From what I understand, the problem is not on the Cummins side. The problem is that we all have a Dodge wrapped around our Cummins. My understanding is that the Cummins ECM (2 50 pin connectors) has the PTO and everything is easy. However, we have the Dodge ECM (1 50 pin connector), and they have deleted the PTO program from the ECM. IF the programming is in the truck ECM, then you can access it with Insite. However, it seems that the programming is not there, so people can't get into it with Insite, even though you should be able to.

Also, I don't know for which model years this is true. It may be a different story for the older trucks.



Scott

Originally posted by Texas Diesel





@#$% #$%%*()*(_)*@#$%326^&*%^&* Chrysler

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by milehiscott



From what I understand, the problem is not on the Cummins side. The problem is that we all have a Dodge wrapped around our Cummins. My understanding is that the Cummins ECM (2 50 pin connectors) has the PTO and everything is easy. However, we have the Dodge ECM (1 50 pin connector), and they have deleted the PTO program from the ECM. IF the programming is in the truck ECM, then you can access it with Insite. However, it seems that the programming is not there, so people can't get into it with Insite, even though you should be able to.

Also, I don't know for which model years this is true. It may be a different story for the older trucks.



Scott

From everything I have read about Insite(quite a bit), it can be done. Even with our "joke" of an ECM. It's just that some Cummins dealers don't have the InlineII connector that is only used on our Dodge trucks. Guess time will tell.



Andrew

 

[Evan A. Beck]

INLINE II is not just used on the Dodge trucks. It is used on any system with a J1939 electronic protocol. I have used it on everything from Dodge trucks to large motorhomes and trucks. INLINE II supports communication with both the J1939 and the J1587 protocols. The kit comes with the converter box and adapters for connecting to 3, 6, and 9 pin datalink ports. The 6 and 9 pin are typically used on larger trucks.



The last time I had INSITE hooked up to a Dodge truck, there was very little I could change. However, I was not looking for a PTO option. I have a foot in the door with an electronics guy at Cummins here in WA, and I plan to pick his brain over this one. I know for a fact the PTO, when engaged, disables some OBDII functions. What those functions are, I do not know. As for the idle control, there is most likely a set-idle point, with a parameter for constant-load operation. That is, RPM will stay the same, regardless of the load being put on the engine. For example, if you had a generator hooked up to your PTO. As the demand for power increases, the load on the engine increases at the same rate. The programming in the ECM would see the load, and adjust the throttle accordingly. Make sense?



I have seen the PTO option menu with INSITE while working on a 275HP ISB in a Frieghtliner chassis. There were 5 set points, all of which had a box next to them where you can type in a value. This, as far as I know, is ONLY true on the dual-plug ECM. I have pinouts of both ECMs, and there are many things we are missing out on. PTO controls, cruise control, remote throttle, fan clutch operation... The list goes on and on.



The ECM in the Dodge is a stripped-down unit. It runs the engine, and thats all it was designed for. After all, who needs a electric fan clutch or 5 different PTO speeds?? You gotta remember what people actually do with these trucks, and that is why Cummins made the decision to not have all these other functions. They are just not going to be used. I hate to sound negative here, but when you think about it, it makes sense. All that extra wiring for the less than 1% of the people who will actually use it. It becomes cost-prohibitive.



So where does that leave us? Still in the research stage. We need to know more about what this "PTO switch sense" actually does. Surely it is more than just adding a few RPMs at idle...

 

[n7gxz]

Re: I have news, but it's not good.

Originally posted by milehiscott

The 2001 and newer 6 speeds no longer have the servo. They are controlled by the ECM. The Auto still has the servo, and he wasn't sure about the 5 speeds.



Scott

Scott,



I have a 2001 ETH/DEE 6-speed with a Feb 2000 build date that has the vacumn servo for the crusie control. If the servo was dropped it was on the later 6-speeds.



Kevin

 

[RustyTRanch]

TTT



Has anybody hooked up to Insite or inlineII yet.





mike

 

[Diesel Freak]

to see if you have the Vacuum cruise control, look next to the drivers side battery. There should be a diaphragm there if your cruise control is vacuum operated.

 

[Ladders]

MARCO - Where r u?

when we had questions before HE had some answers - so where is Marco now and his ECM's?? Maybe he has the answer(s)/programing/what we needs??





SOTSU!!

\\BF//

 

[jstarnes]

whish I had a 100 pin ecm

Sorry for the mis information guys! I talked to our tech at work and he said he would hook up to my truck so we started gathering all the stuff (laptop,harness,connector?wheres the connector?)so I ask him "how many pto's have you put on a dodge?" "none" he says "but Ive done a lot of F650's and they have the same engine!" "yea the same engine but a different ECM" so I looked all throughout the book I have and not one mention of "does"or "doesent" work On dodge trucks???



So again Im sorry BUT I still want a 100pin ECM!!!

 

[jalberring]

Has anyone thought about checking with a work truck/wrecker building company? A lot of these trucks have to have PTO's and the company probably knows what to do. They may not want to share their info though. And now that I think about it I haven't ever seen a Dodge wrecker.

 

[w-cummins]

Re: whish I had a 100 pin ecm

Originally posted by jstarnes





So again Im sorry BUT I still want a 100pin ECM!!!

Well I don't think that you do, I don't think that the 100 pin ECM will get along with the dodge PCM. so that would effect lots of stuff you would "want" to have... . The gauges, ABS, AIRbag's, charging system, the transmission if an Automatic etc..... I have the Cummins people looking up the cost of the wiring harness for the engine I will post the bad news on the price when they "give it to me"