Def Delete Kit

[K9Kodi]

Out of curiousity, what is the perceived benefit of deleting your DEF system? The financial savings are a few dollars every couple hundred miles... but it will take a LONG time to recoup the investment into the system. I don't know how DEF affects fuel mileage or longevity of the truck either.

Can someone enlighten me?

There are many benefits:
1) less electronics, sensors and injectors to go bad
2) you don't have to purchase more aubstances and fill a separate tank with said substances
3) you are not running a egr system (exhaust gas recirc) system. You don't have to dump exhaust gasses back into your motor via intake
4) the base isb6 was designed originally without a full on egr and set system. It runs best without it.

The downside is a major:
1) cost
2) warranty loss
3) legality
4) cannot allow dealer to flash your computer

I however, know, if I could afford it and had enough free cash flowing to fix anything that went wrong without an issue outside of warranty I would do it.

 

[kthaxton]

Admittedly, I am a bit green when it comes to deletes, but why does EGR keep coming in a discussion about deleting DEF, is it because typically one always does them together?

 

[K9Kodi]

yes. Your gonna throw codes either way, so the new tuner will tak care of both

 

[smokin1cat]

Well once you do away with all said egr, dpf and scr systems you virtually have zero problems with these motors. Mileage and reliability go thru the roof. It does cost you your warranty but if you eliminate 90% of problems in a cummins powered ram what's the big deal?

 

[K9Kodi]

Motor breaths clean air, simply expels burnt air. Suck/compress-bang-blow. Not suck clean air, add used air, compress, implode, expel, add def, test the air for proper burn and no soot, hope there isn't a code and then do all over again

 

[NIsaacs]

Motor breaths clean air, simply expels burnt air. Suck/compress-bang-blow. Not suck clean air, add used air, compress, implode, expel, add def, test the air for proper burn and no soot, hope there isn't a code and then do all over again

Excellent description

Nick

 

[skiploder]

I heard from one of my local GM Service Tech friends, that Duramax is going away from DEF either by 17 or 18 but they did not have any information about what will be GM's pollution solution for the future?? Anyone else hear anything like this???
gtwitch in wyoming

Various manufacturers have talked about better atomization of diesel fuel to achieve cleaner emissions. The finer the fuel spray the better the efficiency of the combustion process and the associated formation of pollutants. Insufficient atomization limits the evaporation process in the engine and leads to inefficient engine operation and pollution formation such as soot and unburned carbohydrates.

We've also heard that the use of methanol injection may be the wave of the future.

Problem is, that these are still added emissions measures. Imagine more fragile and temperamental injectors and fueling systems. Imagine still adding fluids other than diesel for emissions purposes. These systems will go through a teething process.

The elimination of EGR would be great. I'd gladly trade my EGR/SCR setup for a water-methanol system that controls NOx in-cylinder. I'd do so only after such a system has been on the market for several years and has a proven track record.

I'm not crazy, however, about the idea of a more intricate fuel injection system.

 

[Ozymandias]

The new Truck Engine Generation from IVECO works WITHOUT EGR and has of course the Euro6 Standard.
They are the only ones that made an Engine today without EGR.

So, it is possible to make an Engine without this, competitors just dont have the knowhow to do it.

 

[skiploder]

The new Truck Engine Generation from IVECO works WITHOUT EGR and has of course the Euro6 Standard.
They are the only ones that made an Engine today without EGR.

So, it is possible to make an Engine without this, competitors just dont have the knowhow to do it.

Scania also makes a non-egr engine. I hear that DEF consumption on these units is pretty high.

 

[K9Kodi]

I'm very doubtful that cummins of Isuzu doesn't have the know how. It's not all about them. They may be the designers/engineers/producers but they are still a company building products to Spec for another company. If you don't think they aren't trying it as we speak you must be crazy. I would think ram or gm isn't sure about the idea so if anything those two companies are trying to produce one to show otherwise. If anything, sell the same motor with less crap on it, now for more money then the original non egr/scr/def units too

 

[Ozymandias]

http://www.iveco.com/en-us/press-room/kit/Pages/New-Eurocargo-HI-SCR.aspx

Every Manufacturer would like to have an engine without EGR, less parts, less wear and tear, cheaper to build, less fuel consumption , less maintenance so on.

They are just not all on the same level. That's a fact. That's why North Korea still tries to build an a-bomb - and you have it since 70 years.

 

[jhenderson]

Just because it passes Euro spec doesn't mean it'll pass US emissions. Not to mention the question of performance. HP and torque numbers along with displacement might change your mind.

 

[MLee]

What about if the fuel processors were able to improve there refining and eliminate all the bad stuff out completely and improve the fuel to where no DEF was needed and was able to do away with all the after treatment all together? You didn't hear this from me, but Telsaro is working that way. Secretly. Is it possible? Heard it from a person in the know.
OK got my armor on.

 

[Tuesdak]

Admittedly, I am a bit green when it comes to deletes, but why does EGR keep coming in a discussion about deleting DEF, is it because typically one always does them together?

Pre DEF you had to use a ton of EGR to meet NOx emissions. You couldn't burn the DPF clean at WOT pulling a 28' cargo trailer on a good grade as the soot coming out of the engine would plug the DPF just as fast as it burned off. Delete the DPF and leave EGR alone the engine will be smoking worse than a NA 6.2 GM diesel on a grade towing. (Non DEF engines that is.) The DPF has to deal with a lot of soot from all the EGR to keep NOx in control. This is why emissions equipment and turbos plugged solid with soot before DEF was allowed.

This is why VW is in so much trouble - they just cut the EGR back and let NOx go to get less DPF clogging and less needed regens. It's the EPA's fault for the stupid insane NOx limits and for not allowing DEF to be used instead of massive EGR because you had to add a fluid. The EPA didn't want to allow DEF at first.

DEF just reduces the NOx in the exhaust. So with reduced NOx you don't need as much DPF clogging EGR to be used. This is why EGR comes up with DEF all the time.

The EPA's government stupidity run amuck is costing you and me MPG and money. Cummins was ready to go with DEF and not being able to use it plus wanting to meet emissions early cost a big chunk of their RAM Cummins reputation. I understand the people responsible for this early emissions stupidity/cost to you and I/warranty nightmare from Ram/Cummins are no longer employed there. Good riddance! Sadly the new emissions limits affected all diesels and some people are dead as the ambulance stalled out due to emissions... No one from the EPA was fired for the reliability nightmare they gave diesels. Same for the toxic river spill that they then covered up with by going after VW for something you can't see unlike the orange river...

High Sulfur Diesel plugging the DPF is like high Zinc oil ruining cats. Mexico doesn't have ULSD and there isn't a lot of trouble with DPF's there in context of the average trouble with them here on ULSD. Again some theory like global warming, R12 ozone layer issues, and zinc in oil reducing cat life.

So no, you don't have to delete your emissions equipment in other countries. Now if you don't want to suffer problems like the Americans that have higher emissions than European countries then this is the reason to delete.

 

[Flash1034]

I think the bigger concern is not being able to get DEF in third world countries and having your truck shut down when the DEF runs out.
Also, I'm a little worried about DEF being hard to find and/or excessively expensive if the OEMs go away from DEF in the next gen trucks.

Flash

 

[Newsa]

If you delete it, there is no more egr.

When you delete the DEF, you would also delete the EGR & DPF.

 

[Ozymandias]

I think the bigger concern is not being able to get DEF in third world countries and having your truck shut down when the DEF runs out.
Also, I'm a little worried about DEF being hard to find and/or excessively expensive if the OEMs go away from DEF in the next gen trucks.

Flash

They not go away from DEF, this system is established now and works, even in africa def is available slowly more and more.
Europe runs DEF in nearly every new Diesel Vehicle, Cars, Trucks, Farm Tractors, Construction Equipment etc.
In Europe there is no difference between onroad and offroad vehicles.

DEF is sold everywhere where Diesel is sold.

 

[Ozymandias]

When you delete the DEF, you would also delete the EGR & DPF.

Yes so it is.

 

[Mingoglia]

They not go away from DEF, this system is established now and works, even in africa def is available slowly more and more.
Europe runs DEF in nearly every new Diesel Vehicle, Cars, Trucks, Farm Tractors, Construction Equipment etc.
In Europe there is no difference between onroad and offroad vehicles.

DEF is sold everywhere where Diesel is sold.

I definitely wouldn't question Europe on DEF, since they're ahead of the curve compared to the US. However, the argument is valid in Mexico. I have a bunch of friends who race down there and the logistics of making sure they can get, and more importantly get FRESH DEF is a logistical issue they run into with getting their tow vehicles to/from Mexico. Me being a good "friend" I couldn't give one of my friends enough of a hard time when his brand new $75k Ford got stuck in Mexico in limp mode for 2 weeks while the Ford dealer tried to deal with a DEF related issue. This is what friends are for.

 

[Ozymandias]

Give it a couple years and Mexico will run DEF to.
When DEF was introduced in Europe 2006 there was no infrastructure for it, 3 years later it was everywhere, 6 years later it arrived in africa.

The US and Northamerica is a little behind now but it will raise fast, i guarantee you that in 5 years we will laugh about it.