2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission did BD copy the DSS

[Bob4x4]

This is just one of the reasons I bought the Defiant Steering Box support.



I believe to be more then a knock-off of the DSS, an actual new design to solve the same problem. It is also extremely well designed, well made, well finished and well packaged. However, if I hadn't bought the the Defiant, I would have bought the SSI instaed of the BD, if that matters... .





Here is a link to the Defiant;



Defiant Truck Products - 03 to 08 DODGE 4X4 2500/3500 STEERING BOX SUPPORTS





Paul, who makes them, is extremely knowledgable about our trucks and willing to problem solve.

It is still a knock off

 

[Bob4x4]

Call Harry at peak diesel they have what you want and great service!

1-877-858-7325

Piers Harry , Harrry and Louise own this company. They started PDR originally.



Ron

I second that great guys to deal with. I have been using them for years

 

[seafish]

It is still a knock off

Bob,

By ALL definitions, a "knock-off" is a copy or imitaion meant to sell for less then the original. Quality is ALSO not part of the definition of knock-off.
In short, while Defiant may or may not have been inspired by the original DSS to provide a steering box brace to cure part of the design flaws that plage Dodge front-ends, his solution is by NO means a simple "knock off".

While the Defiant utilizes a similar approach by using a bearing to support the bottom of the steering box/pitman arm, the bearing is supported by what I feel to actually be a superior design-- a piece of uniquely bent steel that provides a durable, partially flexible AND low profile support for the bearing.

The BD is DEFINITELY a knock-off, the Defiant IMHO is far from a knock off.
In fact, calling the Defiant a "knock-off" would be very much like calling Carli's stuff a knock-off of Kores, and we both know that AIN'T true. :-laf

 

[SnoKing]

If you order from RIP at Source Automotive, you get the real thing(. biz) and good service. SNOKING

 

[JMcCoy]

I was not aware that BD stole the idea from DSS. If I had, I probably would have rethought my purchases of the BD products. One thing I can say is that neither the steering box stablizer nor the 3rd gen track bar kit are cheap. They are both quality products. In fact the bd track bar bracket has 5 mounting points and the DSS only has 3. I do believe the BD bracket is overkill and a pain in the butt to install. 3 holes need to be drilled. Not easy drill'n.

Though I do feel the BD product is of high quality, I feel a companies ethics are important. I hate hearing about a large co. squashing the little guy. I will have to do a little research before I purchase another BD produuct.

 

[RDHamill]

which was on the market first? the . biz guy or the . ca?

 

[Grumpy John 4x4]

Dss

They all copied DSS! DSS was first!

 

[SnoKing]

which was on the market first? the . biz guy or the . ca?

SolidSteel. biz - Home of the Dodge Steering Stabilizer is/was Darin's original company. Marv was helping him market the product and then formed Windecker Machine Ltd. Home Page to compete! The Windecker site even has Marv@solidsteel. ca as contact info. Then came others.



So . biz is the original company. Russell is now running it, not sure about what happen to Darin. The inside story on Darin is a bit sad. I had one of the first DSS' and 3rd gen track bar kits from them and use to email back and forth with Marv, Darin and Russell.



SNOKING

 

[SRath]

It happens every day

I learned the hard way that even having a US Patent does not protect the little guy. You must also have the huge bucks to retain a lawyer to go after any patent violators. If they happen to be a big company with deeper pockets and more lawyers, you can expect it to get very expensive. Probably out of your league.

Conversely, if you find your invention is being knocked off by other "little guys", a lawyer will flat out tell you it is useless to sue since since they have nothing to go after. The best you can maybe afford is to pay a lawyer to write a scary-sounding letter on his lawfirm letterhead warning the other "little guy" of the consequences of continued Patent Violation. It sometimes even works. But each letter will probably cost you a hundred bucks or more.

Bottom line: A Patent is only as good as the money you have available to spend on lawyers. I'll never waste the money on a patent again. Just build and market your product and don't let up or look back. You WILL be ripped off if it is one of those "Gee, why didn't I think of that?" ideas that actually solves a problem. More so if it can be built by other guys like yourself without the need for specialized manufacturing.

Face it, most good ideas, like the DSS, fall into a "niche" market and are unlikely to make you "millions". And if it is not a "million dollar product", lawyers aren't interested in a contingency lawsuit. You have to pay, and pay dearly, up front. And there go your humble profits... and your house... and anything else you are willing to put up.

I, for one, did not realize there was more than one manufacturer of these Dodge steering support devices. I can tell you that the one I bought did not even come close to fitting and I had to remake my own mounting bracket for it. For all that hassle, the $200+ pricetag was a ripoff. I would have been much better off making the whole thing to begin with for all the time and welding I put into it. I would have to find my receipt to figure out which company made it.

 

[darkhorse]

Interesting story. I just has a DSS track bar installed. (got it from Rip, great service) The 3 holes on the bracket didn't quite match making it a wrestling match for my mechanic. He thought my 100k frame may have been slightly bent.

 

[CYDiesel]

The thing that really aggravates me is that Geno's Garage chose to market the BD product instead of the original.

 

[SnoKing]

The thing that really aggravates me is that Geno's Garage chose to market the BD product instead of the original.

Maybe they just did not know the whole story! If you order from Rip at Source Automotive, then you get the real deal! SNOKING

 

[Rip Rook]

I began purchasing the DSS (Darins Steering Stabilizer) from Darin @ Solid Steel in late 2002, or early 2003. I would have to dig in our archives to determine the actual date of our initial order. It was my understanding that Darin owned the busiiness & had 1 employee. I was not aware of a similar product available at that time.



A large, well known Canadian outfit used to be a reseller of the Solid Steel Product line. Now they no longer carry Solid Steel & have their own "completely redesigned" product line. Similarities ? You bet. Copy ? Knock off ? Who has the authority to make that call ?

Morals, ethics, integrity, honesty. You've either got them, or you don't... ... ...



SolidSteel. biz - Home of the Dodge Steering Stabilizer

 

[Cummins12V98]

I began purchasing the DSS (Darins Steering Stabilizer) from Darin @ Solid Steel in late 2002, or early 2003. I would have to dig in our archives to determine the actual date of our initial order. It was my understanding that Darin owned the busiiness & had 1 employee. I was not aware of a similar product available at that time.



A large, well known Canadian outfit used to be a reseller of the Solid Steel Product line. Now they no longer carry Solid Steel & have their own "completely redesigned" product line. Similarities ? You bet. Copy ? Knock off ? Who has the authority to make that call ?

Morals, ethics, integrity, honesty. You've either got them, or you don't... ... ...



SolidSteel. biz - Home of the Dodge Steering Stabilizer

Well said Rip!!!!!



Also their ATS look alike 3 piece exhaust manifold is a REAL winner!

 

[ChrisOlson]

I too purchased from Russel At solid steel They shipped it to me with a bill did not make me pay up front, They were great people to deal with. I am considering trying the 3rd gen trackbar thing as I am not fully sastified with my 2nd gen track bar and lukes link fix. Also whil i was on extended work in Portland I dealt with a BD dealer there one of the worst dealings I ever had I truly regret not going to source and rip I had started the process before I found about source and Rip. I WILL NOT BUY BD PROUDCTS BECAUSE of this BD Dealer and the solid steel ripoff of the steering stabliser.

Have a great day.

CHris Olson

 

[Hootguy]

RiP put it best,,"Morals, ethics, integrity, honesty. You've either got them, or you don't... ... ... BD obviously doesn't,,,but i guess if you can't come up with original idea,,steal others ideas,,but their stuff is still just CHEAP COPIES. . which dont fit right anyway,,,save yourselves time. effort,,money,,get the originals,,those people put in the time to develope their ideas only to have them ripped off by no morals companies.

 

[Pistazie]

Oh no I did not know all of this! Yuck a Canadian company too. I remember the big feature (read: advertisement) BD took out in Diesel Power must be more than a year ago, and that's when I bought it.

 

[Hootguy]

companies with no morals or integrety are bordeless. .

 

[Pat@BD]

Well this thread just keeps going on so it is time to word our side of the story.



Did we used to sell the solid steel product YES. We after numerous attempts to get a steady supply of product to supply our network of over 2000 dealers had to come up with another option. We looked at their kit, we looked at all of them. Each one of them has good ideas built into them, and they all had things that we thought could be improved upon. If you look at our kit we are powder coated not painted. 5 mounting pads instead of two. . We changed things in the eyes of product evolution. Manifolds are basically the same thing. Did we used to sell the ATS manifold YES... Did we come up with a different one YES. The material that we use to cast them is definately different than what they are using. As far as looks go, how many different ways can you make a manifold look?



Now you can throw this line of thinking into just about every product that you guys are putting on your trucks. Go back to the original Blue Chip performance module. Did TST copy them because they use injection timing and duration to make horsepower? Did Edge copy TST? See where I am going with this point. How many companies out there are selling a Governor Spring Kit? Who built the original kit for that, Piers when he worked for BD?



You are always going to have people that don't agree with everything you do. Heck you cant make everybody happy all the time. There are even some in this thread that should think about their reply and their own business ethics... .



So let the BD bashers have their way with this thread, because I know it is going to happen. Just think about the evolution of this industry and where it started, before you come to conclusions on who copied who... .....

 

[LVJUNIOR]

I understand the right to competition but to call the BD version an "evolution" is stretching it a bit. I have seen the BD version and held it in my hands. I am not sure exactly who's steering stabilizer I have but I can tell you that it is in no way less evolved than BD's and is in fact superior in both materials and workmanship.