Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Diesel fuel additive at the pump. The real story

[krtcummins]

On my previous post we talked about what is added to the diesel fuel to replace the lubricity lost by the process to remove sulfur. Today I remembered my wife works with a gal who's husband is a "Tanker yanker. " So I called him and here is what he had to say.



Here in southern California, this is how they do it. The only fuel that the trucker installs additive in is gasoline. All brands of gasoline come out of the same "Rack" pipe. The only difference is the trucker punches in the code for the brand he is hauling to get their additive package.



The diesel fuel additives are already installed at the refinery. None are installed in the fuel by the driver. Also, it does not matter what brand of diesel fuel you buy, It ALL comes out of the same "Rack" pipe.



I asked him why we no longer see the big name brands' trucks on the road. He said they all got rid of their trucks and drivers so they did not have the union hassles. They all, except for Luvs, ARCO, Pilot, Etc, use the independents to haul their fuels.



So there ya have it. The next time you go pay more for Chevron, Texaco, Shell, Etc. , thinking you are getting a better grade of diesel fuel with a better additive package, just remember you are getting the same fuel that you get at ARCO, mom and pops, Etc. Only the gasoline gets a different additive package.

 

[Nyoest]

Im a ways away from you but I can smell the storm... ...

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

I traveled around most of the United States (97-03) working in refineries as a contractor and have personally seen 500 gal totes of Power Service that were tied into process piping and being blended into the diesel fuel at varying concentrations (depending on time of year) even in the small ma & pa refineries.



The stations that advertise they have "winter" or "blended" fuel purchase a blend of #1 & #2 diesel (most of which have PS already)



I cannot speak for all of the refiners, but this is just what I've witnessed in the past.

 

[HBarlow]

Thanks, krtcummins, for asking questions and posting what you learned.

Similar discussions with similar answers have cycled through TDR in recent years but the facts are often ignored and the discussions will start up again before long.

Gasoline and diesel fuel are commodities just like crude oil. Every refinery uses the same processes to refine crude oil to produce the same finished products.

I think the most important considerations when buying diesel fuel is price and sales volume. Higher sales volume makes it more likely the fuel is clean. In most cases, the retailer who prices his fuel a penny or two a gallon lower also moves higher quantities of fuel.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

I Totally disagree..

Adding 11oz PS Diesel Kleen or 11 oz of TDR-S & Amsoil Cetane boost makes a marked improvement in throttle response, Opacity reduction and adds about 1. 5 MPG or so.

 

[krtcummins]

Adding 11oz PS Diesel Kleen or 11 oz of TDR-S & Amsoil Cetane boost makes a marked improvement in throttle response, Opacity reduction and adds about 1. 5 MPG or so.

You totally disagree with what? Were talking about where and when the diesel fuel additives are installed in the fuel, not what YOU as a consumer put in after you buy the fuel. Re-read the first post.

 

[The patriot]

Last I was in the field (04) it was just about the same here in NJ.

The quality of the fuel you get depends on the particular terminals QC and manager.

Back then, the only difference between HHO and diesel was a small tube that added the dye when non taxed was entered into the system.

At that time they were still producing sulphurised fuel.

Thinks have changed I'm sure by now.

 

[Regcabguy]

I've read that the additive must be introduced to the ULSD at the tank farms where the trucks load up. Additive enriched diesel will erode the pipelines according to what I've read.



Here in Ca unfortunately,our refineries must formulate our own "Eco- diesel").

Consequently,when a refinery goes down,we can't buy from another state.

NICE!:{



Another business friendly decision from Sacramento.

 

[SnoKing]

I've read that the additive must be introduced to the ULSD at the tank farms where the trucks load up. Additive enriched diesel will erode the pipelines according to what I've read.



Here in Ca unfortunately,our refineries must formulate our own "Eco- diesel").

Consequently,when a refinery goes down,we can't buy from another state.

NICE!:{



Another business friendly decision from Sacramento.

The issue is that Jet fuel can not be pumped in a pipeline that pumped diesel with the lube additive already in it. It contaminates the Jet Fuel. Diesel and Jet Fuel alternately use the same pipelines.



To the OP, go back and ask the guy about this!!!



About two months ago I got a tank of diesel that made the truck sound strange. Next fuel up it was back to normal 24V noises. Wally World 2 cycle oil makes in quieter.



SNOKING

 

[The patriot]

What do you think would be a reasonable ratio to add 2 cycle oil?

I've done 1/2oz per gallon.

 

[krtcummins]

The issue is that Jet fuel can not be pumped in a pipeline that pumped diesel with the lube additive already in it. It contaminates the Jet Fuel. Diesel and Jet Fuel alternately use the same pipelines.



To the OP, go back and ask the guy about this!!!



About two months ago I got a tank of diesel that made the truck sound strange. Next fuel up it was back to normal 24V noises. Wally World 2 cycle oil makes in quieter.



SNOKING

Just for you I will.

 

[BIGNASTY]

I traveled around most of the United States (97-03) working in refineries as a contractor and have personally seen 500 gal totes



. If the driver that gave you the info said its that way. Im sure he's a Carrier Driver and is in the loop. Look at the way the fuel is shipped from Rack to Rack Via Kinder Morgan they are the company that pumps the fuel to the racks a side note Las Vegas and Phoenix both get their fuel form So Cal refineries. Yes the Gas/Diesel is all the same when in the pipe. Except the pipe lines that run to South Gate and thats Arco/ BP's line and Chevron's line that runs to Montebello and Huntington beach Rack is their 0wn. Other than that I dont know of any that Kinder Morgan doesn't own. the fuel / gas is sent to Kinder Morgan and pumped to the satellite racks and the additive is added to the loads at the rack via the 500 gal totes as mentioned above. If all the gas/diesel is the same im coming back to So Cal and filling a false advertising law suite on all major oil companies. Think about the ramifications if this were true. The Major oil companies have their own rack at the satellite terminals and are for the most part brand specific so they can add their own snake oil. In Bloomington rack they all were there. Chevron has a diesel only rack a diesel /gas rack Mobil loads at a community rack but cant be loaded at any of the other community racks because ?" the so called Mobil rack is the only one that can have Mobil additives into the fuel at the time of loading. Connaco Phillips (76) has their own rack at the Bloomington terminal as Arco but Arco has no pipe to the terminal to their rack. It's funny because Arco has a pipeline that runs within 1/2 a mile to Bloomington and continues to the Palm Springs area but Kinder Morgan wont let them tap into the line because Arco has been a GIANT PITA to the rest of the world that it's pay back time. Im sure there have and will be changes all the time. In my opinion the Major Oil companies are getting out of the refineries/transportation of fuel to the retail sites because it's not what they want to do. They are a OIL COMPANY they will sell their product when they pull it out of the ground and sell it to some jobber working out of his basement in po dunk and sold as a commodity (OH IT ALLREADY IS ) and they have no risk other than the drilling. And as the U S A has seen the Oil companies can come in drill and F things up pay some minor fine and go on about their business. If this were not true then how does the oil SPECULATION MARKET control the price of oil by the barrel and the gallon at the pump. But hay what do I know im just like the buddy that told you his take on the system I guess not quite like him im not WORKING anymore. THANK YOU MAJOR OIL COMPANIES for that If a few of you guy's can put your pennies together Arco is SELLING their refine/ retail sites in Ca/AZ/NV any takers

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

I never said anything about loading racks and personally don't really care what is added there since I've never worked near one. What lead you to believe I said anything about getting info from a driver anyway?



My work consisted of entering many different types of process vessels where the fuels are actually made and some of those process areas had the totes of PS tied into process piping there. The particular areas that I've seen totes of the stuff has been in the downstream side of an HDS (Hydrodesulpherizer), HCU (Hydrocracker) and CAT Cracker units.



Some add it and some do not and I'm sure it was only added to get a little bit of lubricity to meet a minimum standard. Keep in mind that this was several years ago when LSD was the new stuff and long before ULSD was on the market. I have no idea what is being done now for lubricity in the refineries that don't blend with biodiesel.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Not intended for your post to say that you were involved in this other than that you have seen additive in 500 gal totes sorry if there was any misunderstanding

 

[krtcummins]

I called the guy who I spoke with, but he does not answer his phone. Fathers day dinner or he is out on the road. As soon as I talk with him I will ask him about the jet fuel/diesel fuel line.



In the mean time, after reading the test done for lubricity and how Power Service was way at the bottom, I think I might start adding a quart of two stroke oil to each tank. The stuff that was on the top of the list is not available at the local parts houses. I don't really want to get into an ordering and shipping thing with an additive. Too much of a pain in the *** for me.



The injection pump I have on my 01 was installed under warranty at 67,000 miles in 2006. I'm now at 110,000 and still going strong. The only thing I have on my truck is the basic Edge box that only controls timing. I did install the new Dodge in the tank lifter pump conversion kit last year, as my tank sending unit went out. Now all works fine.



Unlike some, including my son, I like my truck as near to stock as possible. I'm way too old to be wrenching on it now. I like vehicles that run. Turning wrenches is way too much work.



I spend my time riding my motorcycles, not working on my truck! I sold my 2002 30' SUNDOWNER live in horse trailer last month anyway and now I'm wondering if I might sell my truck and get a Toyota FJ Cruiser. I don't need a big old 2500 4X4 just to go to town at $4. 60 a gallon for fuel.

 

[SnoKing]

What do you think would be a reasonable ratio to add 2 cycle oil?

I've done 1/2oz per gallon.

I usually fuel up at the chime, which is around 26 gallons. I dump a quart in before fueling.



SNOKING

 

[SnoKing]

Here a link to a document that talks about the lubricity issues with ULSD, storage tanks, racks and pipelines. It says this:



Lubricity improver Trail-back issue, contaminating jet and other products

Many of the lubricity additives are surface-active materials. They work by bonding to metal surfaces Pipelines

present miles of metal surfaces. Fear is that the additive will be lost to the pipe walls Of course Loss of lubricity

performance in the diesel but the big questions is where will the additive go and that it will contaminate jet. Most

of the USA pipelines have set the policy not to allow lubricity improver in their pipeline.



http://help.intellisitesuite.com/Hydrocarbon/papers/8160.pdf



Snoking

 

[BGlidewell]

I run diesel from murhpy oil at walmart usually. It seems to be middle of the road diesel. The worst in my experience is race-track and a second to last is shamrock. These two smoke very badly and get less performance/mpg for me. The race-track fuel actually smokes a brown haze which is really odd.

 

[fest3er]

... In the mean time, after reading the test done for lubricity and how Power Service was way at the bottom, I think I might start adding a quart of two stroke oil to each tank. ...

May I respectfully suggest you investigate the additives in 2-smoke oil? Once you learn that, you may not want to put 2-smoke oil in your fuel; more than a few of those additives are not compatible with diesel fuel injection systems.



Contact a few diesel injection service businesses in your area. If they've seen few pump failures due to inadequate lubricity, you probably don't need any additive. If they are seeing failures left and right, then there is a problem.



I would expect that, by now, retail fuel everywhere in the UASR has adequate lubricity.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

On my previous post we talked about what is added to the diesel fuel to replace the lubricity lost by the process to remove sulfur. Today I remembered my wife works with a gal who's husband is a "Tanker yanker. " So I called him and here is what he had to say.



Here in southern California, this is how they do it. The only fuel that the trucker installs additive in is gasoline. All brands of gasoline come out of the same "Rack" pipe. The only difference is the trucker punches in the code for the brand he is hauling to get their additive package.



The diesel fuel additives are already installed at the refinery. None are installed in the fuel by the driver. Also, it does not matter what brand of diesel fuel you buy, It ALL comes out of the same "Rack" pipe.



I asked him why we no longer see the big name brands' trucks on the road. He said they all got rid of their trucks and drivers so they did not have the union hassles. They all, except for Luvs, ARCO, Pilot, Etc, use the independents to haul their fuels.



So there ya have it. The next time you go pay more for Chevron, Texaco, Shell, Etc. , thinking you are getting a better grade of diesel fuel with a better additive package, just remember you are getting the same fuel that you get at ARCO, mom and pops, Etc. Only the gasoline gets a different additive package.

Over 5 years of MPG comparison, hand calculated I get a 1. 5-2. 0 MPG increase using Shell diesel over Sunoco.