Dodge 3/4 CTD and Allison 1000 PICS

[DHorstman]

Brayden,



Looks good! I remember you talking about this swap while working on your S10 project. IIRC there was the issue of getting the programming from allison, has this been solved?



This is exactly what I'd like for my motorhome Oo. . Replace the old '542 with a 1000 series. I already have the SAE mount and tons of room under the floor, front engine/rear drive chassis.

 

[Brayden]

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been on here for a while. . I've been busy ramping up my new business. www.fleeceperformanceengineering.com



The SAE housing is the simplest housing to use on a cummins. . The GM bellhousing used on the 4bt's has a funny angle on it. I wanted everything to be nice and level, and plus the SAE housings are larger full circle stronger designs.



PM, email, or visit the website for contact information if you have any questions.



We shoud be ready for any conversion you are wanting by mid summer '06.



Thanks,



Brayden

 

[Mtngoat]

Nice, but it sure looks like it hangs low below the frame rails. .

Robin

 

[Brayden]

The NP205 is just an inch lower than the framerail.



The divorced T-case isn't required now that I've found the correct model of transfer case to use... The NP242DHD (IIRC) is the one that you need to mate to a 1000 series. It's the one found behind the NV4500/NV5600 manual equipped trucks. The earlier auto dodge transmissions have smaller output shafts than these do.

 

[DWitcher]

How many of the Allison swaps have you done and how well are they holding up with HP mods?

 

[Diesel Nut]

I am seriously considering pulling the NV5600 out of mine for an auto, so this sounds like it just may be the ticket. And by the sounds of it, I alreaady have the proper T-case. question for ya - do you use a steering colum mounted shifter or is this an electronic shift selector like the buses use? Have you managed to unlock the extra gears? How much power would you expect this to hold up to? I was going to PM ya, but I figured these are probobly questions everyone has.

 

[Brayden]

We're doing one right now in my brothers 2002 HO. Formerly 6 speed EEP twindisk.

He's got a Drag comp hot, Scheids 7 @ 0. 012" injectors, and an S300.

I'm building the trans for it currently, a stock LCT will not handle this. Actually not much of anything stock will handle that.



I've got a 97 12v running around with a #0 plate on a stock LCT and it's holding up well.

 

[Brayden]

You can convert over to the factory dodge column shifter or use a floor mount GM style shifter. They are not electronic keypad shifted.



As for unlocking 6th. PM me.

 

[DWitcher]

So what are the exact parts needed to complete the swap other than the trans and where can they be located. I would like to perform the swap but I doubt I will be in your area anytime soon. If you don't wish to give out this info I'll understand .

 

[Brayden]

Well I can give you a list of the hardparts involved, but not out here in the open. . I've got more than a few minutes wrapped up in R&D



I can give you a price on hardparts assuming you have the trans and TCM already.



2611. 61 in conversion parts. This is also assuming you have the correct T-case, and can fab your own crossmember.



It's not cheap, but it's a great combo.

 

[Trophy1]

Allison verses beefed up 48RE

Hello Brayden,

I was going to take my 48RE and have a new valve body and triple lock torque converter with a HD billet shaft when I read about this new 2005 allison 6 speed auto transmission. Can I just bolt this new transmission up to my 2003 HO 305 cummings with an adapter plate and some code modifications?

What I really want is a jake brake for RVing in the Rockies hense the modifications to the 2003 48RE. Also will there be room for the 4x4 tranfer case?

Any help or advise you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Bruce

 

[Brianpump]

Brayden you have done nice fab work on your s-10 but was it ever finished? You have not said if you actually have ran your allison behind the Cummins yet. I am not trying to rain on your parade but I tried to offer some advise along time ago about the reality of running an 1000 series allison. It is realitively easy to do the mechanical connection in fact I know of at least three was of doing that. Yours is the most expensive and uses more space in between the frame rails, The chevy adaptor not perfect but close. My first install was behind a V-10 so we made our own adaptor same as the cummins bellhousing pattern, adapting to the chevy bellhousing on the trans. We can do this for way less than the $2600 in adaptor parts you are talking. As we know you are talking about another $3000. 00 to $6000. 00 in trans, wiring, computer, misc, plus labor so realistically it is an $4000. 00 to $10,000 swap depending on many factors.



The real trick is making it run. Allison will not give any support to aftermarket installs. No one else yet makes an aftermarket computer that will run one. The shop manuals say that you can get a program for the allison conputer that will run it with a TPS sensor on a none electronic engine. I have used one for three years with less than satisfactory results. Extream ruff shifts especially 2-1 downshift. The whole trans was designed to be put behind an electronic engine that has torque management and can communicate between the two computers that is the only way to make them work right and shift right. The gearing is great but I am now in the process of inastalling an 03 engine for several reasons but a large one is in the hopes of a better interface.



Again not trying to discourage or dump on you but I would suggest actually getting one running with good drivability before offering conversions. This is why I have held off for over three years even tho I invested alot of time and money in setting up the bellhousing and torque converter adaptors. I can live with the shift quality but someone who spends $$$$$$$$$$ for a conversion will not. Hopefully somone will come up with a decent aftermarket controller for none torque managed engines.

Brian

 

[Brayden]

The setup in that truck with the divorced case was because the customer didn't have the money to purchase the correct t-case to have it married to the trans.



The ONLY way to mate this up is to use the factory #3 housing. Why would you want weak adapters in there? The chevy adaptation is not shorter, and it also leans the trans on edge.



How does my setup give you less room between the framerails? You can fit a 5" downpipe in there... .



As for your harsh shifts. . The trans shifts wonderfully in our truck. You don't have the correct calibration. I'm assuming you are using one from some application you just ran across that used TPS. This one was developed for a pickup weighing in the range of a 3/4ton to 1 ton dually. Not for an agricultural sprayer weighing in at 26000 GVW.



Come on out to Indiana, I'll give you a ride. There is absolutely nothing harsh about this truck.



As for the price. . Buying in small quantities yields higher prices to the customer. The price will come down with time.



Thanks,



Brayden

 

[Brianpump]

As I said not trying to rain on your parade but I have spent hours with Allison engineers and the calibration was the best of three that they gave me and they said the trans will only work right with a torque managed engine computer application, because of the way it shifts. I have put over 120,000 miles on my conversion and have found what worked and what didn't. Changing the front of the transmission is a waste of time and money when you can do it much cheaper and cleaner and as strong or stronger. I can mail you pics of what I am talking about. As far as the drivability you have never show the truck finished or stated before that it was anything more than a mockup. I am on the west coast. If you are interested in the adaptors we made I can supply them for around $1000. 00 per set. Again I am not attacking but trying to show that it can be done cleaner and cheaper. If you got lucky with allison on a calibration congraduation as I found they refused to help aftermarket installiations. Was it for a tps or an electronic application?

 

[Brayden]

It's a TPS application.



How is the SAE #3 housing weaker than a 90 degree V8 bellhousing that only utilizes about half as much surface area for mounting? So one would think that if your way was stronger then all the body builders and OEM's would use the GM direct mount hosing with an adaptor in their app... Right? Well they must know something different.



The SAE #3's are strong enough to allow the trans to be overhung mounted with no support at the tailshaft, in 26000 gvw applications. Are you willing to try that with your 90 degree V8 bellhousing?



You've spent countless hours on the phone with Allison engineers, on the phone.....



I live 30 minutes from ATD world headquarters. There are benefits to talking in person.



I'm not taking it as an attack, no reason for me to worry.



Yes you are correct in the fact that I don't have many updated pictures. I'll just have to go get some pictures and video.

 

[Brianpump]

As I said I have posted posivitive comments about your fab skills in the past but you have a vary narrow view for somone your age. The # 3 bellhousing does take up way more width in the chassis and limits things. Using the chey bellhousing on the Allison does cause a few issues with the trans cooler lines coming out the side. Howeverhe #3 on the allsion puts them on the bottom and as we both know the allison sits way lower than the Doge. As far as the strength I would put a 2" solid steel thick adaptor up against a cast #3 housing any day. As I said If you are interested in looking at things with an open mind I am more than happy to mail you pics, if you supple a mailing address. On the personal side I have built street rods, custom trucks, limousines. swaps, etc for the last 30 years and yet I am not so arrogant to think I Know it all at 45 let alone early twenties. I am sorry but you were not the first to put an 1000 series allison in something other than a GM or moterhome chassis. I did not mean to get personal but when someone of your age gets closed minded about ways of doing things and only wants to do things at other peoples expense the most expensive way well than I wish you luck.

 

[Brianpump]

Left out one thing The adaptor we made is for a V-10 and diesel bellhousing pattern. They are far different than a mopar V-8 bellhousing pattern. On an economic side not How many west cost people would be willing to send a truck to the east coast when they could have it done on the west for at least $2000. 00 les plus transportation cost. At this time I am not going to compete with you but your arrogance makes me think twice.

 

[Brayden]

I'm not trying to be arrogant.



Yes the Number 3 housing I used the first time around has the cooler manifold on it. I'm going to use the SAE #3 housing with integrated ports next go around. It has much better clearance.



If you use a Cummins #3 flywheel housing that doesn't have the high and low mounts you gain some clearance and save some money. I used what I could get cheapest the first go around.



This is correct that I'm not the first to have a 1000 in something other than an OEM application. There are a few that have done it before me, including you.



Yet you are unhappy with your shift quality etc etc. . You are assuming that I have the same issues that you do. . This is completely not true. Your calibration is not the same as mine. Being an electronically controlled trans the calibration plays a huge role in shift quality.



Using OEM parts may be more expensive, but what happens when John Q. Public buys your custom CNC'd adaptor plate, flexplate, ring gear assembly etc. and breaks something (Not saying my setup can't fail either). And don't say that it won't happen, because that is pure arrogance. Stuff breaks all the time, no matter how much engineering is behind it.



So. . John Q Public is broke down on the side of the road with his wife, kids, and 5'ver in tow waiting on a tow truck to take them to the nearest shop. Then he'll have to explain to them that he's waiting on a guy to overnight special adapter parts to that shop. Cost would rack up quickly in hotel bills while he's waiting on your part, and shop labor would likely be higher because nobody will be familiar with your system. Whereas any Allison or Cummins shop would instantly recognize the parts involved. They're proving themselves every day in UPS, FedEx, and Bread Vans etc etc. The ISB and 1000 with the #3 housing is an extremely common adaption design. The parts are generally in stock. Our distributor carries the flexplate, hub adapter, ring gear, dog dish adapter in stock for this setup.



My system just makes more sense. There are a blue million Cummins and Allison authorized service centers across the country, and a good percentage are open 24hrs, and some even 7 days a week.







The S10 isn't done because I don't really have the time, and I've been working on other projects. We've dove into diesel performance headfirst, and I don't have any time for my own projects.



Maybe I've gotten a little too far ahead by saying I'm offering conversions, because they are not turnkey packages for a DIY'er in their garage. But with a vehicle in my shop, I can do the conversion on most any Dodge truck. I've done all the research up to the ISBe's.



And since when did age have to do with anything? Yeah I'm 25... The way I look at it you've had a 20 year head start. :-laf



Not trying to be arrogant at all, I'm just stating the facts, as to why I chose to go this way. People will make their own decisions.



Happy New year



Brayden

 

[Gaylord]

Thanks Brayden for the post with pictures. Should I have to replace my built transmission, I would definately use the Allison. Let us know how it preforms.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

The divorced T-case isn't required now that I've found the correct model of transfer case to use... The NP242DHD (IIRC) is the one that you need to mate to a 1000 series. It's the one found behind the NV4500/NV5600 manual equipped trucks. The earlier auto dodge transmissions have smaller output shafts than these do.

Hey, Brayden:



So - do you know for sure if the NP-242DHD is the t-case that will bolt up to an Allison 1000-Series?



Thanks,



Matt