dtt twins what's up with this

[moolie]

Whew Obeekaybee.



Let's see I didn't read all of this but what I have read is turning south~ish so keep it civil and off each other's backs a bit folks. Sentence structure mishaps are not a crime ... may aid in the future need of glasses but are not a crime



Now being I have not read all of this I did however retain a couple points. One Moolie That Bank's Loader, does it have a high egt defuel?? You may be ramping up against that and loosing tons of power because of that.



You found one leak (A kernal leak) but how is the air horn gasket , intake gasket itself , and intercooler? I use copper gskets not because I am twinned (Because I am not) but for a solid connection between the air out side of the intercooler and the next stop which would be the combustion chamber.



I am moving this over to the engine forum.

exactly my point sir i believe martha stewart thinks we are in 8th grade and yes i understand that the issue i'm dealing with now is a leak between the 2 turbo's. However upon the installation we didn't have this leak when we went to the dyno. So that cannot be the total answer here but it could be part of it.

 

[moolie]

I just want to know how someone so stupid that they can't form a sentence or paragraph can afford $6000 for a set of twin turbos. Seriously dude, stop messing with your truck and go take an English class. I have never seen or heard such a disgusting abuse of the English language in all of my 21 years on this earth.



Good luck with your truck. It really does sound like you got screwed, but my head hurts from reading this thread, and even if I did have the knowledge to help you, I wouldn't have the patience to read your posts.

yeah i make minimum wage like your mom working at burger king. Actually Burger King is the way it should be. I mean are you serious? You must be like some 4 eyed geek that never got out of school and had any fun. I can't believe that this is what u do on a friday night proofread other people's posts. Wow I bet you have all the women beating down your door. Of course they have to fight with the folks from nasa and the cia because they are begging you to come work for them. So if someone so intelligent and so much more advanced in their sentence structure why don't they have more mods then someone like myself? Who isn't worried about sentence structure on the tdr. Gosh did i spell that right. If I didn't i'm sure timmy would be there to make sure we know about it. Thanks for following behind me timmy and picking up after me i appreciate it.

 

[SKargo]

I just want to know how someone so stupid that they can't form a sentence or paragraph can afford $6000 for a set of twin turbos. Seriously dude, stop messing with your truck and go take an English class. I have never seen or heard such a disgusting abuse of the English language in all of my 21 years on this earth.



Good luck with your truck. It really does sound like you got screwed, but my head hurts from reading this thread, and even if I did have the knowledge to help you, I wouldn't have the patience to read your posts.

Hi Tim, it's your buddy Scott here. How does insulting him, make you any less stupid than him?

:-{}

 

[JDerbedrossian]

I just want to know how someone so stupid that they can't form a sentence or paragraph can afford $6000 for a set of twin turbos. Seriously dude, stop messing with your truck and go take an English class. I have never seen or heard such a disgusting abuse of the English language in all of my 21 years on this earth.



Good luck with your truck. It really does sound like you got screwed, but my head hurts from reading this thread, and even if I did have the knowledge to help you, I wouldn't have the patience to read your posts.

hey tim put a sock in it, you aint helping. i think you would be acting the exact same way if you just spent 6 grand and didnt get any help.



jake.

 

[Cummins4Life]

timmy

lol reminds me of south park.





Moolie, I can understand youre feelings after spending that much money and not being happy with the result. I'm thinking pressurizing everything as said above might show some leaks that may be adding to your EGT's. Also someone posted earlier about how your box combination may have a late injection creating excess heat. Might be somthing to look into.

 

[moolie]

right on thanks man like i said i didn't wanna start any crap i just wanna address the issues that are affecting the vehicle. Like i said on tuesday i will have the fuel pressure gauge and another boost gauge put in. I am also hoping to have the powder coat redone to make sure there aren't any other leaks. Now then i will be able to answer more of your questions but i do know that the bottom turbo was making 19# on the other truck. I also know that i haven't seen over 54 # of boost. I'm not sure what 3rd gens with twins are making for boost but i thought it would be higher than this. It seems like it's faster but the dyno results were less then great. We had a hard time trying to get 50# of boost on the dyno but when it was achieved it didn't really change the hp any. So I'm not sure where to go but they still leak oil like i said and i'm just thinking about what i should do. I mean they haven't addressed anything and it's been 5 weeks. when they do answer they say "these things take time" that's a crock we aren't running a test application here it's already available to the public. I'm thinking of going with the exact setup that piers had which was the crazy larry and the tst box. I know the other truck has a tst and edge and he also saw very limited results.

 

[MVieira]

Moole, You didn't say how you were going to check for boost leaks, so I hope I'm not stepping on your toes by giving you a method I learned as a mechanic for the CAT dealer I work for. If you have the AFE cone style air filter, pull it off the tube and find a heavy/thick plastic bag that will fit inside the filter and let the bag overlap the outter opening of the filter where it mounts to the tubing. Make sure the bag is deep enough to bottom out inside of the filter as it will support the plastic to keep it from blowing out. Then reinstall the filter and clamp it down making sure the plastic bag is overlapping and clamped also. This will seal the big hole on the intake side. Then hopefully you have access to a decent air compressor and an air pressure regulator, because you need to find a port to plumb air into your intake. If you have a bung in the tubing for your gauges or any place on your intake system wiil work because you're going to pressurize the entire intake system from the air filter to the engine.

Once you have the air chuck or fitting installed, put your air pressure regulator on and start adding air until you are holding 10 to 15 psi. of steady pressure. You will get some leakage through the valves and piston rings, but a decent air compressor will keep up. Then get a good squirt bottle and fill it with water and a stong solution of dish soap and go over every inch of your intake tubing, clamps, hoses, turbo cold housings, aftercooler, intake horn and plate, from the air cleaner to the cyl. head.

If you have any air leaks you will see the soapy solution start to make bubbles like mushrooms growing on it. Then mark them and get them repaired. I hope this helps and you can get your twins working correctly. Mike.

 

[moolie]

Moolie, slow down dude. Do you have full gauges to see what is going on with the 2 turbos? I mean, one total boost gauge that reads past 60, like a 0-100psi. This should be off the intake somewhere. Another to read the charge out of the Big turbo, to see how hard your driving it. A third in the exhaust manifold to see what drive pressures are doing.



With these 3 gauges, you can tune the twins. Maybe the wastegate is opening too soon, and the big turbo is being overspooled. A balance between them is key. Not sure what the turbos are, either.



Lastly, what kind of injectors are the ones you have from ATS?



Piers runs stock injectors with the TST, we all know big injectors don't play well with the TST, not sure about your box though, never used it.



I have a truck in Vegas that is pushing 590 with TST/EZ,100HP injectors, Twins(35/3TB) and Propane. We are going to pull the injectors and go with Flux injectors, when the guy is ready to move that direction. We spent a good amount of time tuning to get it just right, and it has run a 12. 8 at Vegas.



Water/Meth is also one of the next options we're going to add, real soon.



How much smoke do you get when running it hard, and the EGT's are pegged? Iif it smokes like crazy, I'd be looking back at the injector/box combo.



On this guys truck, he ran the best times and most HP with the TST on a lower setting, not a higher one, as most would expect. The injectors are hurting it there.

Food for thought.

NO i don't have 0-100 boost gauge. I have a 60# and a 35# that i will use to read the bottom turbo. U don't think the egt's are out of whack being able to peg them and keep them pegged relatively easy. I'll add water meth possibly in the future. What are people with twins seeing for egts on 3rd gens anyway?

 

[Huff N Puff]

Sorry moolie,no Sympathy here,I bought and paid for my twins and installed them my self. It was alot more than $6000. 00 by the time I got done with the install . When I first put them on they only made a little over 500hp Alot lower than the hp you are at now . After a long process and alot more work I'm well over 600hp. Its a process that requires more than throwing $6000 at someone and expecting them to get your truck to run like you expect it to. Twins only give you the air,thats only a little part of the equation. I own an auto repair shop after putting my twins on I'd charge you a whole lot more than $6000. 00

 

[moolie]

Moole, You didn't say how you were going to check for boost leaks, so I hope I'm not stepping on your toes by giving you a method I learned as a mechanic for the CAT dealer I work for. If you have the AFE cone style air filter, pull it off the tube and find a heavy/thick plastic bag that will fit inside the filter and let the bag overlap the outter opening of the filter where it mounts to the tubing. Make sure the bag is deep enough to bottom out inside of the filter as it will support the plastic to keep it from blowing out. Then reinstall the filter and clamp it down making sure the plastic bag is overlapping and clamped also. This will seal the big hole on the intake side. Then hopefully you have access to a decent air compressor and an air pressure regulator, because you need to find a port to plumb air into your intake. If you have a bung in the tubing for your gauges or any place on your intake system wiil work because you're going to pressurize the entire intake system from the air filter to the engine.

Once you have the air chuck or fitting installed, put your air pressure regulator on and start adding air until you are holding 10 to 15 psi. of steady pressure. You will get some leakage through the valves and piston rings, but a decent air compressor will keep up. Then get a good squirt bottle and fill it with water and a stong solution of dish soap and go over every inch of your intake tubing, clamps, hoses, turbo cold housings, aftercooler, intake horn and plate, from the air cleaner to the cyl. head.

If you have any air leaks you will see the soapy solution start to make bubbles like mushrooms growing on it. Then mark them and get them repaired. I hope this helps and you can get your twins working correctly. Mike.

yeah that sounds good enough and easy enough too. I'll see how that goes but before that happens it has to be recoated. I hope to see it tuesday and get it addressed. But i do appreciate your help

 

[moolie]

thanks`

i appreciate all the help everyone has offered up and thank u for it. I just want to say that all the people who were complaining and crying about sentence structure think about this. I am posting results to protect folks and keep them in tune with what is going on. Down the road You may want to install twins and maybe would even go with this particular setup. So why should i worry about any who is badmouthing me i'm protecting you and the next from making the same mistakes. However when someone is too ignorant to understand that and they wanna talk trash it's stupid because i'm helping that very person to not make the same mistake i made. I'm glad that folks are the way they are about that, i'm helping them and they are dogging me. I know that i can't change or affect someones thoughts especially someone who assumes i work for minimum wage lol. I'd love to compare bankrolls tim. However, this is not what we are here for. I am here to get help and give help we had the 3rd set of these twins to be made in the country so anyone who has some sort of sense might be interested in the results. Go find some positive posts about the dtt twins on this forum there was a thread by me. You can read it and see where it ends right before the dyno day when we discovered these lame results. The installer wasn't happy and neither were any of the other 3 folks who had them put on. Locker your setup is different and u get 52 # of boost well all of us get 52 # boost and not a pound higher lol. They aren't what we were led to believe however, if you are happy with them i'm happy for you. However, if i'm not happy then you shouldn't be disgruntle towards me either.

 

[moolie]

Sorry moolie,no Sympathy here,I bought and paid for my twins and installed them my self. It was alot more than $6000. 00 by the time I got done with the install . When I first put them on they only made a little over 500hp Alot lower than the hp you are at now . After a long process and alot more work I'm well over 600hp. Its a process that requires more than throwing $6000 at someone and expecting them to get your truck to run like you expect it to. Twins only give you the air,thats only a little part of the equation. I own an auto repair shop after putting my twins on I'd charge you a whole lot more than $6000. 00

yeah that's what bob said too he said it was a ton more work then he thought it would be. It doesn't bother me that they were 6K i'm just not happy with the fact they leak oil all over. They didn't produce any horsepower and under wot i still have smoke. I can't get over 53# boost. Not to mention there hasn't been any sort of resolution presented on their side to solve this problem. I asked for a month straight for a plan of attack not for it to be solved instantly. I just wanted to pick the brains and see what the plan was and which road we were to take but we couldn't even get that figured out. So with no help from the installer as far as what to do i decided why keep these results away from the people here. To protect reputations. If the rep these folks have was any good then they wouldn't stand for anything but customer satisfaction. They haven't tried to fix anything. so regardless of the hp increase, the leaks the incorrect boot still haven't even been addressed by anyone and i feel that folks deserve to know about what is happening that's all.

 

[Fishin Guide]

I don't know if this was addressed anywhere in any of the posts, but do you see any more boost on the street than on the dyno? Just curious if the dyno was loading the truck properly.



My thoughts about the issues with the twins centers around fuel availability and boost leaks. Not to mention, these things don't sound as if they have tuned at all. What kind of chargers are these? Where are the wastegates? Just looking for info on the setup.



And I'm not picking on you here, but honestly, if you snap back with several consecutive posts insulting folks, you may not get any usable information. We all hate to be wrong, but let the guys in the know help. They have helped me more than I can explain when I needed it and I hope to be able to return the favor.



Dave

 

[Huff N Puff]

moolie,for $6000. 00 you got the twins on,that was reasonable, 53lbs of boost is reasonable, the engine stayed together,consider your self lucky. If you are not ready for the small issues that happen with twins,like leaks, you are not ready for all the problems that come with these trucks when you get over 600hp. You will find every weak link in your chain,some of these broken links will cost you thousands. Welcome to the world of hotrodding. Hope things work out for you.

 

[moolie]

maybe not check this out, the tubing isn't even mandrel bent it's pieced together and welded in 5 seams and then powder coated that's where the leak is on one of the seams and the oil in leaks the oil out leaks and the housing leaks. i've got some pictures i'll be posting. So they aren't all that great at all i'll put the pics on and see what u think.

 

[moolie]

pictures of junk

http://home.comcast.net/~moolie19/turbopics.html





ok so i don't know how good these are but you can see what happened here. That oil on the floor is from 2 separate times i have driven the truck and came back home. You can see it leaks a good deal. The oil in and the oil out and the cracked housing this is pathetic like i said they are not right

 

[moolie]

what a joke

ok now remember these have been on for 5 weeks and there has been nothing done despite numerous emails to the installer. Forget for a second that there isn't any gain in hp at all. Just look at the workmanship that was put forth for 6000 dollars and with no effort whatsoever to fix not only these issues but any issues period. pretty sickening if u ask me, so here you have some proof as to the kind of quality we were dealing with

 

[moolie]

nice guys

Ok now i will take some more pictures here this morning because i drove the truck hard last night. I will also take another floor shot so you can see how much leaking there actually is. So all of the folks who voted that i shouldn't be upset with this situation take a good look at not only the already posted pics but also the new ones i post today. If this was happening to your vehicle after you paid 6K in cash you would or you wouldn't be irate. If you had waited 5 weeks silently without bashing and without badmouthing and they did absolutly nothing. Ever time u contacted the installer he told u he was too busy to address it. You give 2 written responses stating you want your money back and your old setup back and u don't get any answer other then "things take time". Is this a joke. I can't believe that people actually wanted to purchase this mess and even after i posted wanted them of course at half price. I wouldn't run them if i was paid 6K and i swear to god on that and I wouldn't run them if they were free.

 

[Luke Warmwater]

Maybe it's karma from all that pimpslappin and you showing up at the Hemi club dyno events so you can show them what's up?



So what is the bottom line on what you want to get out of them if you sell them?

 

[TPCDrafting]

Moo, Have you tried tightening down the oil fittings yourself? Sometimes them fittings can loosen up, especially if you have been "running it hard". It probably took longer to take the pictures of your oil drippings than it would have to tighten down the fittings and wipe up the mess.

Did you ask before purchasing if you were getting mandrel bent plumbing? Most twin setups I've seen are welded, although I haven't been around all that many sets. I would hope that you have learned to be a more informed consumer from this and I do hope you realize you were getting in on a new product line as I recollect you bragging up that your serial number was 1,2 or 3, and the tribulations that come along with that.

What has been your experience of calling or dropping by in person with Bob and/or DTT? E-mail is a handy form of communication, but the least personable and many people don't use it very well. Try sending an e-mail to Piers as opposed to calling him, you'll get very different results. No offense to Piers, but he's a very busy person (as is Bob) and doesn't use e-mail or this forum all that often. But give him a call on the phone and you will be overwhelmed with the knowledge he freely shares.

I'd be willing to bet that with taking care of the workmanship issues (issues I would fully expect if my serial number was "3") and fine tuning the adjustments with the setup, you can achieve better results.

I'm quite sure there is another side to this story and regardless of your experience, there are about 3 people in a 1000 mile radius of me that I would allow to work on my truck, Bob is one of them and the other two aren't in the business of working on trucks.