dtt twins what's up with this

[moolie]

Moo, Have you tried tightening down the oil fittings yourself? Sometimes them fittings can loosen up, especially if you have been "running it hard". It probably took longer to take the pictures of your oil drippings than it would have to tighten down the fittings and wipe up the mess.

Did you ask before purchasing if you were getting mandrel bent plumbing? Most twin setups I've seen are welded, although I haven't been around all that many sets. I would hope that you have learned to be a more informed consumer from this and I do hope you realize you were getting in on a new product line as I recollect you bragging up that your serial number was 1,2 or 3, and the tribulations that come along with that.

What has been your experience of calling or dropping by in person with Bob and/or DTT? E-mail is a handy form of communication, but the least personable and many people don't use it very well. Try sending an e-mail to Piers as opposed to calling him, you'll get very different results. No offense to Piers, but he's a very busy person (as is Bob) and doesn't use e-mail or this forum all that often. But give him a call on the phone and you will be overwhelmed with the knowledge he freely shares.

I'd be willing to bet that with taking care of the workmanship issues (issues I would fully expect if my serial number was "3") and fine tuning the adjustments with the setup, you can achieve better results.

I'm quite sure there is another side to this story and regardless of your experience, there are about 3 people in a 1000 mile radius of me that I would allow to work on my truck, Bob is one of them and the other two aren't in the business of working on trucks.

i'll gladly show u the 20 some odd emails that were sent to bob. As for tightening the fittings sure as for fixing the hole in the casting sure. As for fixing the hole in the tubing where the weld busted through sure. I might as well do it all over again. We have an quick fix boot and several issues as far as the product not only performs but maintains itself i just wanted to post the facts. Now if you don't believe it why don't u go ask mike S 1 and see what he says. I've already posted lockners email where he states he was disappointed in the dyno results so i'm not gonna try to sway anyone. I've talked bob up on this forum more then anyone go read the posts. It has been kept quiet out of fairness to help them come up with some plan to address it and after 5 weeks with no resolution it's time to hold people accountable. I'm not trying to change your opinion of anyone but i was bragging about being the 3rd set right up until the dyno day. Go check out the other thread "dtt twins to win" then look at the last post it was the day before the dyno run where both mike S and i were there. That's the truth i have a stack of emails that were sent to bob right in front of me. I also gave 2 written requests to put the truck back the way it was and give me my cash back. They weren't acknowledged even though i kept from bashing them for 5 weeks. Is this how a new product is supposed to be, for 6K no less. Then i'm to go back and redo it all in about a month. If that was the case then I would have to rip the transmission about 4 times over by now.

 

[moolie]

Maybe it's karma from all that pimpslappin and you showing up at the Hemi club dyno events so you can show them what's up?



So what is the bottom line on what you want to get out of them if you sell them?

I would love to sell them in a second. That's the other reason i kept from posting because if everyone saw this I didn't like my chances to sell them. I won't get near what was paid and that's what hurts but like i said i asked for the old setup back in writing 2 times already.



Also think about this issue. You don't exactly see mikeS1 chiming in and saying i'm lying do you. Think about that.

 

[moolie]

After 5 weeks i'm tired of cleaning up oil and emailing folks with no results. The housing in cracked how is that going to be fixed by me? Just design a new one huh? If I would have done that then I would have just done it all myself. I guess we'll grind down the tube where the air hole is on the weld. Then patch that up and have it recoated too. Why should i have to have that done on a brand new set of twins? I'm taking more pics right now just to have them available. As far as 2 sides to the story, I encourage u to call and ask him why it wasn't addressed. Ask him how many times I emailed him stating that we need to get this issue resolved. Please do check it out. Like i Said before nobody has talked bob up more then i have. I always have went out of my way to make sure his excellence was appreciated. However, this is far from excellence and nothing has been done, and because I had respect for him I kept it totally quiet. Until I got sick of hearing mickey mouse answers to a serious problem and it was pushed back, shrugged off. Well I'm only going to sit too long before I display the truth. If I was lying Everyone would be calling it out. But like i said u haven't seen a word from mike s on here and lockner is loyal to his friend and i can respect that. He seems like a good guy though i've never met him. He is comfortable with his set and that's fine with me. However he stated to me he wasn't in the email that was posted.

 

[Luke Warmwater]

Oh I don't think you're lying I just think you might have unreasonable expectations for someone who just bolts on parts like the next guy. Bob got the parts, bolted them on, and charged you for his time. Not much more in it for him after that it would seem. I'd give DTT a call and try to work it out with them. You know what they say about having the job done right... do it yourself

 

[moolie]

if you read my posts you'll see that i stated i wasn't mad at bob i was mad at the situation and the product. The only thing i said was that he didn't go to bat for us like he should. He made us well aware that he had no intention of telling the designers that it needed to be addressed. He may have forwarded emails and things of that nature and that's great but I've been more then good to bob. I give him a lot of work. I talk him up every time he does a good job. He knows this issue wasn't gonna go away by itself. He also knows he was given plenty of time to at least present a strategy. He doesn't wanna be a jerk to his people and that's understandable but if it were him and he was in this situation he'd expect someone to stand up for him "i would think anyway". We have gotten nowhere and it's not of any situation on my part i can say that. He is the person who i Paid. He is the person on the invoice. He was fully aware of this situation and the sensitivity of it. He did nothing to help prevent it, I wasn't this rude in the beginning but after all this time and nothing my attitude gradually got worse. I'm surprised nobody has acused me of dumping oil on my own stuff and saying it was them yet. Some people have the most narrow minds, you can show them something over and over and yet they don't believe it. Not saying you do at all but some people on here do. They couldn't imagine a product that didn't seem to perform, or a installation nightmare. If I wanted to clean up oil i would have went and bought a case and poured it on the ground every day and then cleaned it up and that would be a lot cheaper then 6K.

 

[Tim]

certainly you can read them because u guys respond to them.

It's very difficult to read your posts, the way they are written now. If you could clean them up it'd be much easier to respond.



Since you said you only want to see how many responses you can get, and you don't care about fixing it, I don't see why others are bothering to help you anyway.



I think if you spoke to the owner of DTT in a RATIONAL manner, instead of attacking him and forcing him to go on the defensive, you would be much more sucessful.

 

[moolie]

what are you talking about you don't even know what's up with this situation. I'm sure you can read the posts just fine because if you couldn't then you wouldn't respond. I have no care to solve the issue of the lack of performance. all i wanted to find out was some of the approaches different people would take, and what their initial reaction would be in my position. I've spoken to the guy who designed the setup via phone and via emails/private messages and I was not rude at all. This display seems a bit hostile now because after several weeks with no resolution i'm not happy. It could have been addressed by now very easily but it was not done.



So I can't understand why you would attack me for posting some errors when i'm sticking up for u and every other person on here. I'm going through this with this product now and if it wasn't me today, then it would be someone else down the road. It could have been you who got the #3 set of twins and were very upset. In the future it may be you. I'm sticking up for the little people and making the company be accountable.



As for talking with mr kondolay whom i've never met and only briefly spoke with upon transmission hunting. He seems like a nice enough of a guy and was very helpfull, however I never even spoke to him about this setup here, so why start now. I didn't give him any money and he surely didn't print my invoice. Bob is a big boy and he knew perfectly well that i wasn't pleased and that it was coming to a head soon. He knows these folks a lot better then i do. he is an authorized installer which means they have confidence in him.



Now with that in mind i look at hypothetical similarity. When i buy a new truck from dodge and there is a problem with it and i need to get it addressed what do i do. Would i Find the president of dodge and complain to him and see what he can do for me. Probably not. The most realistic option is to go to the dealer where i paid my down payment and who is the dodge person for the region and I address it there.



I don't care if you agree with my tactics or not or if you can't read the posts as u claim. This was addressed for a while now and it has gotten more and more intense and surprisingly it never made any headway. I'm quite sure the folks at dtt are quite aware of this post by now. They were aware last week that something would be happening eventually if it wasn't addressed. I told the guy who designed them that I didn't like the deal and i would rather have my old setup back. So for you to post how i should handle a problem when u don't even realize the avenues that were already applied to solving this issue is basically proposterous. We tried to handle it very civil and calm but that didn't get anywhere and this might not either but at least now it's out there and not kept quiet while i wait for a fix it which doesn't seem to be in the near future.



Either way i respect your opinion and I do thank you for your reply. I apologize if I offended you yesterday that was not the intention, I just wanted to get the focus back onto the problem at hand.

 

[Matt400]

I have no care to solve the issue of the lack of performance. all i wanted to find out was some of the approaches different people would take, and what their initial reaction would be in my position.

My bad. . sorry I thought fixing it would give the end result of being happy.

This display seems a bit hostile now because after several weeks with no resolution i'm not happy.

So you do want to be happy correct?

It could have been addressed by now very easily but it was not done.

Well if its not solving the lack of performance then there is only one other solution for you. .

Take the truck back and tell the installer- Look dude, there was nothing wrong with my check so there should be nothing wrong with the product. Either fix whats wrong if the trouble is the twins or take them off and give me my money back. Raw deal for the installer but sometimes business stinks so he will have to resell a used set at a discount and chock up a weekend to experience.

As for talking with mr kondolay I never even spoke to him about this setup here, so why start now.

If the installer wont refund you then you need it fixed correct? He is you man.

I didn't give him any money and he surely didn't print my invoice.

True, but the installer didn't design the system and if his attitude is . . tough dude "you bought them they are now yours", then all you have left is to go up the chain.

When i buy a new truck from dodge and there is a problem with it and i need to get it addressed what do i do. Would i Find the president of dodge and complain to him and see what he can do for me. Probably not. The most realistic option is to go to the dealer

Now your making my brain hurt. . if the Dealer wont/cant help, then you gotta fix it yourself or live with it, time to move on and get'er done.



BTW if you are posting to simply warn others looking for twins, why the secrecy of what those twins are? How come no pictures or info on what top and bottom turbos they are?



I didn't vote because I don't have the information to make a decision, how do you really know for sure the twins is your trouble? What if you have other troubles and the twins were able to push those troubles just another 4hp? A good analogy would be if your limited slip axle was malfunctioning, you don't know it and toss on some better rubber for traction then get all bent at the installer and manufacture for crummy tires that won't hook up.



I am not defending DTT, just making a point.

 

[Tim]

I'm sure it's obvious this is based on a combination of factors. He is running a stack that is not popular, and he has admitted that there are leaks, and yet instead of taking off ALL the electronics, and fixing the known problems, and working from there, he just wants to complain.

 

[AMink]

Moolie, I couldn't find where you said where your pressure gauges are. Is it possible that, if you don't have one on the intake, the intercooler is clogged? If you have gauges just past the little and big turbos, you'll see pressure, but if it's only high pressure/high volume to the intercooler, then restricted so that the engine is getting less volume, that would account for smoke and high egt's. Just a thought.

 

[moolie]

My bad. . sorry I thought fixing it would give the end result of being happy.



So you do want to be happy correct?

Well if its not solving the lack of performance then there is only one other solution for you. .

Take the truck back and tell the installer- Look dude, there was nothing wrong with my check so there should be nothing wrong with the product. Either fix whats wrong if the trouble is the twins or take them off and give me my money back. Raw deal for the installer but sometimes business stinks so he will have to resell a used set at a discount and chock up a weekend to experience.

If the installer wont refund you then you need it fixed correct? He is you man. True, but the installer didn't design the system and if his attitude is . . tough dude "you bought them they are now yours", then all you have left is to go up the chain.

Now your making my brain hurt. . if the Dealer wont/cant help, then you gotta fix it yourself or live with it, time to move on and get'er done.



BTW if you are posting to simply warn others looking for twins, why the secrecy of what those twins are? How come no pictures or info on what top and bottom turbos they are?



I didn't vote because I don't have the information to make a decision, how do you really know for sure the twins is your trouble? What if you have other troubles and the twins were able to push those troubles just another 4hp? A good analogy would be if your limited slip axle was malfunctioning, you don't know it and toss on some better rubber for traction then get all bent at the installer and manufacture for crummy tires that won't hook up.



I am not defending DTT, just making a point.

we never did get told what the turbo's were they didn't tell us that's a fact





I have also spoken to the installer several times via email and the phone as well as bob.

 

[moolie]

how do the electronics make the housing leak or make a hole in the weld on the powder coated tube. My electronics are fine there is not an issue with that. Did you look at those photographs? Holes and leaks and that's just at first sight forget about any sort of performance for a second. Without even getting into all of the many issues which could be holding up the system just look at the overall product installed. They have a cracked housing where oil leaks and also the weld is coming apart on the tube. Of course i'm gonna complain about that what else is there to do. It doesn't make me happy. It hasn't been addressed

 

[moolie]

Moolie, I couldn't find where you said where your pressure gauges are. Is it possible that, if you don't have one on the intake, the intercooler is clogged? If you have gauges just past the little and big turbos, you'll see pressure, but if it's only high pressure/high volume to the intercooler, then restricted so that the engine is getting less volume, that would account for smoke and high egt's. Just a thought.

tuesday i'm getting a 35 psi gauge to read the bottom turbo boost and then i'll have a 60 psi gauge for the total boost. I need to look for leaks i'm sure but with the weld coming apart that needs to be addressed first. I'm hoping to be able to clear all this up on tuesday so i'll know more then.

 

[moolie]

there are pictures of the turbo's on here already and the ones i posted yesterday of just the oil leak issue.



http://home.comcast.net/~moolie19/turbopics.html





the other turbo pics are on the thread dtt twins to win. I only have myself of the kit non digitalized photo's not in a cd form. After installation then I was able to take some photographs with the digital. That's the story with that I know bob has a cd with the photo's he said he was going to give to me but i didn't receive them.

 

[moolie]

I'm sure it's obvious this is based on a combination of factors. He is running a stack that is not popular, and he has admitted that there are leaks, and yet instead of taking off ALL the electronics, and fixing the known problems, and working from there, he just wants to complain.

Ok i'm going to take off the pressure box and the programmer and with that being done i'm wondering if there will still be a leak. That's a great idea why didn't i think of that earlier. There is a hole in the turbo housing u do understand that right? I'll take these off and then tell u what i see. However I am pretty sure it's gonna be oil. The fact that my boxes are not the correct one's for the application presented as you may tend to imply is a good argument. however, we have 3 different vehicles and all are chipped differently and they are all lacking results. I'm just the most angered by it is all.

 

[mlockner]

moolie,

Is it clear you make no sense to anyone? Not even yourself. If there is anyone who would like to hear my real story, you can send me a PM. This nonsense will go on as long as you keep responding to this person. Can you not see why he is difficult to understand or take care of. He does not even listen, investigate or know what course of action is being taken to resolve any problems. It takes time to make new turbos. It takes time to develop and build a mold for the special boots. There can be mistakes or flaws in any new product. If you do not want to wait to work them out, I suggest you contact DTT and Bill Kondolay. I am sure you will get satisfaction from them if you deal with them directly in a professional manner. Your E-Mails are far from being anything anyone would consider professional, let alone be able to read, understand or sort out. This is my last response to your constant rants and nagging. I wish you the best in whatever it is you are after. Personally I have been treated with fairness and respect, because that is how I treat and deal with people. Even if there is no village that will claim you as theirs, you stand out as being a member of a "special club", moolie and I think you know what I mean. That being an "IDIOT". Just my opinion. :-laf :-laf :-laf



Mike L.

 

[moolie]

moolie,

Is it clear you make no sense to anyone? Not even yourself. If there is anyone who would like to hear my real story, you can send me a PM. This nonsense will go on as long as you keep responding to this person. Can you not see why he is difficult to understand or take care of. He does not even listen, investigate or know what course of action is being taken to resolve any problems. It takes time to make new turbos. It takes time to develop and build a mold for the special boots. There can be mistakes or flaws in any new product. If you do not want to wait to work them out, I suggest you contact DTT and Bill Kondolay. I am sure you will get satisfaction from them if you deal with them directly in a professional manner. Your E-Mails are far from being anything anyone would consider professional, let alone be able to read, understand or sort out. This is my last response to your constant rants and nagging. I wish you the best in whatever it is you are after. Personally I have been treated with fairness and respect, because that is how I treat and deal with people. Even if there is no village that will claim you as theirs, you stand out as being a member of a "special club", moolie and I think you know what I mean. That being an "IDIOT". Just my opinion. :-laf :-laf :-laf



Mike L.

I understand your opinion sir and i can appreciate it however the poll doesn't lie. As far as solving the problem where do i begin the first step is to get the things repowdercoated and fix the hole in the welded seam. From there We need to fix the cracked housing. I don't want a cracked housing that leaks oil. Now it's funny u say i'm being an idiot I say someone who pays 6K and has a hole in the housing and a hole in the piping is not an idiot for being angry. However It won't be up to me we will have an unbiased party decide for us in the form of the deputy district attorney of weld county colorado and also the attorney general. Funny that if it's a total washout they would even make an appointment don't u think.

 

[moolie]

I"m not trying to fix this issue sir. I'm just putting the story out there. Folks can make their own decisions and it will be addressed legally on my end and then we will indeed see who is the idiot. If you tell me you are disappointed with the performance which u stated in your email that i posted. then how are you suddenly totally pleased with it. Why the sudden change of opinion as soon as i post this thread. Kinda strange don't u think. Like i said in the beginning of this post feel free to contact both you and Mike S and ask them. Please do ask about leaky housings and no power increase. It's funny because the attorney generals office stated to me that this situation makes plenty of sense. Don't worry sir you're a key witness lol and i'll be sure to give you an opportunity to speak under oath.

 

[moolie]

again this is what u sent me on may 10

Guys,



How are you doing. I want to touch base about my twins and experiences this past couple weeks. Keep in mind these are the first twins of this design. There are always things to work out when you are dealing with a new product line. Even proven product lines have their issues especially when you are hot rodding things and want high performance, besides reliability. Here goes my story. I am still trying to understand the differences between a single turbo and the twins. The feel, sound and reaction of the truck is quite different. This thing runs like hell when you are out driving it around. It has not been much laggier than my HX40 was and once spinning it runs like no tomorrow. I did dyno at May Madness and as both of you have experienced was not happy about not seeing much more hp increase on paper than I have seen.











This is your email message mike lockner so what's the problem read the last sentence u wrote. Now you are suddenly happy and love this setup. Look at what you wrote. You stated that as both mike and I have experienced were not happy about seeing much more hp on paper.



Now after posting this thread you have somehow turned your opinion around 100% So don't down me when you aren't even telling the truth. I call that a liar. Like I said You can be happy with your setup that's fine. But at least man up to your statements u wrote. Give me a break. Don't down me when you aren't even posting factual data you submitted to me. Isn't it funny that my emails to you were fine then and now that i blow the cover off this issue, you state you couldn't understand them.



So if you wanna make statements and then lie to cover them up in order to protect your buddies that's great. Just make sure you post facts when u talk of me sir. If u can't do that or take responsability for what u indeed said then it just goes to show the biased favortism and unfortunatly that doesn't hold up in court. Which is exactly where this is going, and unlike this forum u can't lie there. Well u can but it's not recomended.

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

One thing that everyone should know is that these are NOT DTT twins. These are MAXIMIZE PERFORMANCE TWINS. DTT is just a dealer for the twins. NATHAN builds them, because he prefers to stay on the fabrication and manufacturing end of the business and I (STEFAN) handle the sales for them. This came about after Bill rode in Nathan's truck and was very impressed with the set-up. Those of you that know Bill know that he is not shy. One day when he was checking shift points and road testing Nathan's truck he commented on them, and I quote, "these are the best twins I have ever driven in, and would recommend them to anyone". They spooled nice and did not have any egt issues and he loved the drivability.



When Moolie and I talked, I told him that Nathan's truck had about 590hp on diesel and had low egts and great spool up with awesome drivability. After that Bob called and ordered 3 sets.



When dealing with high performance products, tuning is sometimes required and for those who are not ready to do that or listen to the guys advising on the tuning, they need to stay out of the performance game. Most people that know Nathan know, that he is always helping out guys and has demonstrated that time and time again. Let us use these 3 Colorado twin guys as an example. Nathan was running behind on delivery so in order to help speed up the process he drove from Idaho to Colorado to help install them. That doesn't sound like a guy that does not care to me, not too many people would have done that. There was a boot issue; he paid to have a temp system built while new boots (stronger) are being built. One truck's owner needed to go on holiday so he even took the boot off his own truck (making his truck undriveable) and overnighted it to the guy that needed it.



Moolie, to properly get a good number out of a twin turbo truck you have to get the proper load which means dynoing the truck in overdrive. Nathan has told you to put fuel and boost pressure gauges on as well, so he can help you.



If you spent your time installing the gauges and doing what Nathan is telling you, and do the tuning as suggested I'm sure that you would be further ahead than you currently are. Moolie, you are making it sound like Nathan has not tried to help you. It's pretty hard to help a guy that won't listen to you.



As far as this set-up costing $6000, keep in mind the Twins were $4400, plus the ARP studs and labor to install them.