EarthRoamer installs TripleLok

[Bandit1]

CC, on my 98 12v my idle is about 950 or alittle higher in neutral, i bumped it up to this when it got cold to help with the hard starting prob i had, i am getting ready to bump it down a bitsince it is getting warm but mine will also stall if i go any lower than 800-850 in neutral. yeah the higher idle does generate alittle more heat but jsut slip it into neutral at stoplights, that is what i do, i am also in the process of rigging up an electric pusher fan that i can flip on when i am caught in traffic to keep everything alittle cooler. i have no worries at all, the temps i have seen are well below wha tis considered dangerous. any tc is going to generate heat, jsut depends on how long it is sittin gin park, and some other factors like the air temp outside, i have noticed a slight increase since the temp here in MD got to 90 some today. i would never consider trading my dtt for anything else.

 

[Cummins Corvette]

BTW Stefan, that pic makes me want an Allison. Did I mention that ATS can (and has) put the Allison into the Dodge?

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Originally posted by Bandit1

yeah the higher idle does generate alittle more heat but jsut slip it into neutral at stoplights, that is what i do

Ya that is what I do too. I just don’t want that inconvenience any more. I think it is a pain to keep going from N to D a dozen or so times to get to the next light only to stick it back in N again while I sit there.

Originally posted by Bandit1

any tc is going to generate heat, jsut depends on how long it is sittin gin park

You are absolutely right, but you are forgetting that a tight tc will make MORE heat than a loose one. In other words, you can sit there longer before the temps get out of hand if you have a looser tc.

Originally posted by Bandit1

i would never consider trading my dtt for anything else.

Then don’t. To each his own. I also like my DTT trans, but like anything man-made, it has flaws. What I am hoping is that the ATS transmission has fewer flaws and works better for ME. I don't want to impose my opinion on anyone else, just try to explain my point of view.

 

[rrausch]

Originally posted by Fred Swanson:

"rrausch, the next Allison! Your kidding, right? It doesn't matter who's transmission it is, if you shift locked to locked, you're going to either break something, or wear the clutches out prematurely. "

"Now about warranties, we'll just have to wait and see how their transmissions fair. I'm sorry, no amount of handfeeding information to post here by someone who won't listen to what people are telling him, isn't enough to convince me of this fixed advertising. Please don't talk past your expertise, and pass it off as gospel. "





Well Fred, perhaps the part about ATS being the next Allison was... over-enthusiastic. OK, I'll give you that.



But no one is handfeeding me anything to post my friend. I write from who I am and what I have experienced. And no one feeds that except me. Got it? Good.



Now my Barbara Streisand (BS) detector hasn't picked up any BS coming from Don & Clint at ATS. I've been around a little, in my 55 years, the last 30 years in business for myself. Oh yes, I've been screwed, and I've also been well-served both. A man can learn a lot.



Like I have posted before here, I have asked Don & Clint there at ATS a lot of questions. I've listened to their answers.

I trust their science, I trust their word, I trust their engineering, and I trust what they have written. When they say their trans will shift locked if you want, they also say that shifting locked WILL wear the trans out faster. But then they say the trans is guaranteed for 65,000 miles or 3 years. I want THAT trans in my truck! I'm sure I'll shift unlocked 98% of the time. But if I want to shift locked I'll turn a dial and know that the trans can take it.

I believe my ATS trans is coming with a Cyro'd shaft.



Fred, It looks to me like your posts have taken a lot of digs at ATS. Well, if their trans is REALLY inferior, then you and Stefan have NOTHING WHATEVER to worry about. If all is as you claim, then you and Stephan are the ones who are going to come out the big winners.

 

[Animal]

So much for being civil

Well this transmission tread stayed civil longer than most, but now it’s heading down hill. It’s coming to a point that if you have either an ATS or DTT transmission your opinion is wrong or someone implies you’re being spoon feed, a very cheap shoot I should add. Why does everyone have to take everything so personal, after all we are here to learn from each other not start fights. I have a 5spd so I’m un-bias, so I feel no one should take what I’m about to say personally, but you never know. This is my opinion and may not mean anything, but it's what I believe so take it for what it’s worth, nothing!



First of all transmissions produce heat, they all do, and heat is bad. DTT and ATS have produced TC’s to handle the Cummins Torque and I for one applaud their efforts, but they address the heat issue differently and that seems to cause all sorts of anguish. DTT makes a very tight TC with very good flood coupling. The ATS backers say this produces too much heat, but in reality it doesn’t hurt anything. Sure under slow traffic conditions the tighter TC will produce more heat than a looser TC, but this is negligible because the Cummins is at idle or light throttle, not wide-open throttle. The water cooler can control this small amount of heat with ease, if your ATF temps are higher than 180 with the DTT transmission then there is other problems you need to address. Now as to wide-open throttle, the tighter TC produces less heat than a looser one and this is where the DTT TC will shine and help the longevity of the transmission. The ATS is a looser TC and will produce more heat under hard acceleration if the TC isn’t locked, but will produce less heat at idle or slower traffic conditions.



Now to lockup, ATS has a very novel idea on this and has produced what looks to be an indestructible (or as close as you can get) locking TC to stop heat buildup and slippage under heavy loads or WOT (racing) while shifting. DTT choose good fluid coupling to stop the buildup of heat and only use lockup after top gear is achieved. But many have said that under normal usage they will not use this lockup under load, so therefore the looser TC will produce more heat than a tight TC.



Now as to shifting under lockup…. well this…. ah…. is dubious if not ridicules. I understand that not everyone will do this all the time; many have stated that they will not 98% of the time. So what is the benefit of purchasing a product designed for it if you aren’t going to use it? I’m sure you all can agree that using this feature is hard on the transmission; this is based on most of you having said you will not use it 98% of the time. ATS has stated that warranty will cover the transmission under these conditions and they have modified their transmission to withstand this. Now what has to be done to a transmission to withstand this kind of abuse? Logically the transmission will have to slip somewhere, if it’s not the TC than it has to be the transmission. So they have designed the clutch assembly to absorb the shifts (slip) to keep from breaking something. We all know DTT’s stand on shifting under lockup, their transmission is not designed for it and they may not cover it under warranty, nor should they.



Now what are the biggest complaints we all have about the stock transmission?



1. Loose TC that doesn’t use the low-end torque of the Cummins and produces heat under hard acceleration because it’s to loose.

2. The transmission slips under load or hard acceleration producing heat.

3. The transmission has soft shifts that produce heat due to clutches slipping during shifts.

4. TC lockup clutch slips under load producing heat.



Now we all need to logically compare these problems with both the ATS and DTT transmission and decide for ourselves which one address these problems best.



As to the warranty’s, DC has 36/36K and most of their transmissions go that far and further, but we all know that sooner, not later, they will need a rebuild. Now if we look at all the problems DC has and still makes money, we can conclude ATS and DTT will make money even if they need to do warranty work. Looking at the problems and then looking at both DTT & ATS, which approach best fixes these problems listed above



My money would be spent on a DTT transmission!



Now this is my opinion based on logical thought and we all know what opinions are worth, so I’m sure someone things it stinks.

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Originally posted by Cummins Corvette

If you are going to do something, do it right the first time. This is not to say that I think I didn’t do it right the first time by choosing DTT. I only think that there is something “more right” now, that wasn’t an option last August when I went to DTT. I don’t regret getting my DTT stuff; it is a very good transmission, but it could be improved upon.



I have a couple of questions:



First,you said that there is something "more right" about this transmission. What is more right about it.



Second, What can be improved upon with the DTT system. Explain



I am looking for the next best thing too. I Know I can Destroy anything on this planet if I put my mind too it. I drive real hard 95% of the time. I told this to DTT when I ordered my transmission and they thing performs flawlessly. I was told to"Drive Aggressivley".



There are some out there that will say this thread is turning into a normal "transmission Thread" but I don't think so. I'm sure SS and PW are watching our every move. Be gentle with them I don't want anyone to feel attacked. We need these Forums to discuss our thoughts and to iron out issues. Stop Censorship...

 

[GLASMITHS]

3 Year 65K warranty?

Hey guys, isn't DC offering a 7/100K warranty now?



All you warranty folks head to the local Stealer



Cummins Corvette: Do you have that high of an rpm drop?



Ofcourse 2000 on a twelve valve is different than a 24V, but gee whizz, that is high. Your DTT is 91%? Mine is 89%. The drop is only 125 at 2125rpm. That is close to locked, to me. 2nd time,

what am I loseing on that 125rpm?



Thanks (#2)

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Animal

But many have said that under normal usage they will not use this lockup under load

Mine uses lockup under hard excelleration but by the time it gets to lockup is going 80 MPH... ... one thing I want to do is take it to the track make several runs with and without lockup enguaging(I failed to do this on the dyno) then set down with the time slips and look at all the different times and the differences, I figure 80 MPH or so should be after 330ft and before 660ft so I can do a comparision easily.



One other thing, I've been doing some testing of the transmission with a pressure guage hooked up to the direct port, I get some radical pressures in or out of lockup, verified them with Bill with what they should be and I have them beat.



Jim

 

[rrausch]

You know Fred, I'll tell you something else.

Another reason why I am going with ATS is that in reading all these Trans. threads, I've never seen the guys at ATS take a cheap shot at anybody.

 

[GLASMITHS]

Go some where else to do your:-{}

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Come to May Madness and you can talk to representatives from several automatic transmission companies. Get real information from the companies directly, and make up your own mind. There will be Rams from at least some of them, so you can get test rides too.

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Re: So much for being civil

Originally posted by rrausch





Now my Barbara Streisand (BS) detector hasn't picked up any BS coming from Don & Clint at ATS.

LMAO! Thanks for the laugh!

Originally posted by rrausch



Like I have posted before here, I have asked Don & Clint there at ATS a lot of questions. I've listened to their answers.

I trust their science, I trust their word, I trust their engineering, and I trust what they have written. When they say their trans will shift locked if you want, they also say that shifting locked WILL wear the trans out faster. But then they say the trans is guaranteed for 65,000 miles or 3 years. I want THAT trans in my truck! I'm sure I'll shift unlocked 98% of the time. But if I want to shift locked I'll turn a dial and know that the trans can take it.

I believe my ATS trans is coming with a Cyro'd shaft.



Fred, It looks to me like your posts have taken a lot of digs at ATS. Well, if their trans is REALLY inferior, then you and Stefan have NOTHING WHATEVER to worry about. If all is as you claim, then you and Stephan are the ones who are going to come out the big winners.

That’s what I think too. Clint and Don are very good guys.



QUOTE]Originally posted by Animal

Well this transmission tread stayed civil longer than most, but now it’s heading down hill. It’s coming to a point that if you have either an ATS or DTT transmission your opinion is wrong or someone implies you’re being spoon feed, a very cheap shoot I should add. Why does everyone have to take everything so personal, after all we are here to learn from each other not start fights?

[/QUOTE]



I thought we were doing pretty good, but thanks for the reminder. We all need to try to keep this professional. Is good thread, no? Let’s keep it up and remain cool.



QUOTE]Originally posted by Animal





First of all transmissions produce heat, they all do, and heat is bad. DTT and ATS have produced TC’s to handle the Cummins Torque and I for one applaud their efforts, but they address the heat issue differently and that seems to cause all sorts of anguish. DTT makes a very tight TC with very good flood coupling. The ATS backers say this produces too much heat, but in reality it doesn’t hurt anything. Sure under slow traffic conditions the tighter TC will produce more heat than a looser TC, but this is negligible because the Cummins is at idle or light throttle, not wide-open throttle. The water cooler can control this small amount of heat with ease, if your ATF temps are higher than 180 with the DTT transmission then there is other problems you need to address. Now as to wide-open throttle, the tighter TC produces less heat than a looser one and this is where the DTT TC will shine and help the longevity of the transmission. The ATS is a looser TC and will produce more heat under hard acceleration if the TC isn’t locked, but will produce less heat at idle or slower traffic conditions.



Now to lockup, ATS has a very novel idea on this and has produced what looks to be an indestructible (or as close as you can get) locking TC to stop heat buildup and slippage under heavy loads or WOT (racing) while shifting. DTT choose good fluid coupling to stop the buildup of heat and only use lockup after top gear is achieved. But many have said that under normal usage they will not use this lockup under load, so therefore the looser TC will produce more heat than a tight TC.

[/QUOTE]



I didn’t have the DTT stuff put in because I had overheating problems with my transmission. I had it put in because my tcc was slipping. Now if I had let it continue to slip instead of backing off the throttle, I’m sure I would have had some severe heat problems. However, that was not the case, I always backed off and did not let it slip for more than about one second.



There are only two situations in which my ATF gets over 200 degrees. This is when I am driving in the city, and do not put it into neural at every light, and when I am drag racing. When racing, I can make about 2 runs before the temps go over 220 degrees. This isn’t ¼ mile, but about 1/8 mile just on the street.



Now for the battle of which makes more heat: at tight tc, or a loose tc. This entirely depends where you are driving. On the highway, unlocked, the loose tc is going to make more heat. In a drag race the loose, unlocked tc will make more heat. Sitting stopped at a light or in stop and go traffic, the tight tc will make the most heat. This is why you need to evaluate which tc you want. If you want to run down the highway unlocked all of the time, get the tight tc. But in lockup, even the loosest tc will run cooler. I understand what you are saying about the tight tc running cooler in traffic that is moving slowly but not stopped. I think this is true for the most part. Remember that you don’t need to be stopped to have the tc slipping excessively. If you are moving at 20 mph in overdrive (which mine does not hesitate to do) while unlocked, you are still getting a lot of slippage, and will have higher ATF temps than a loose tc.



It all boils down to this: When slipping, the tight tc makes more heat than a loose tc. But keep in mind that a tight tc slips less than a loose tc. That is the trade off, and what everyone needs to figure out is which will run cooler in their driving situation.

Are you going to force the tc to slip a lot? (i. e. stopped in drive) If you don’t mind slipping it into neutral at every light when it is a hot day, then don’t worry about it. It takes 3. 5 minutes for my ATF temp to go from 170 to 215. That is not a slam, just a fact. If I adjusted my idle lower, this would not be this bad, but would make the stalling worse.



Never forget that I still think my DTT transmission is very good, and those who chose DTT will get a good transmission.

Originally posted by Animal





Now this is my opinion based on logical thought and we all know what opinions are worth, so I’m sure someone things it stinks.

I think your opinion is valid, and you make some very good points.

 

[GLASMITHS]

20mph in OD

CC are you serious? I know mine will upshift to 2nd at idle speed. But listen to this - the "OLD BD" was tighter at idle. It

would go 12mph, the 89% 10mph



We are genning on the same page. You don't like to put it into N when stopped, for the same reason I prefer not to downshift on large hills, unless ofcourse it is necessary. I could downshift at 58mph to 3rd without over-reving, no problem. Just lazy huh.







CC thank for all the input and everyone else; maybe all us novices will catch up one day.

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Re: 20mph in OD

Originally posted by GLASMITHS

CC are you serious?





CC thank for all the input and everyone else; maybe all us novices will catch up one day.

Yes, I am serious.



I am just learning like everyone else. I only want to make sure I get it right, and help others to determine which transmission best fits their needs.

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Re: So much for being civil

Originally posted by Animal



Now as to shifting under lockup…. well this…. ah…. is dubious if not ridicules. I understand that not everyone will do this all the time; many have stated that they will not 98% of the time. So what is the benefit of purchasing a product designed for it if you aren’t going to use it? I’m sure you all can agree that using this feature is hard on the transmission; this is based on most of you having said you will not use it 98% of the time. ATS has stated that warranty will cover the transmission under these conditions and they have modified their transmission to withstand this. Now what has to be done to a transmission to withstand this kind of abuse? Logically the transmission will have to slip somewhere, if it’s not the TC than it has to be the transmission. So they have designed the clutch assembly to absorb the shifts (slip) to keep from breaking something. We all know DTT’s stand on shifting under lockup, their transmission is not designed for it and they may not cover it under warranty, nor should they.

I believe only one person stated that they would shift unlocked most of the time, but you can add my name to that list if it "feels" like it will reduce transmission life.



I don't think this is a question of transmission life while shifting locked to locked. I choose to look at it like I CAN shift locked to locked if I choose. No one with an ATS transmission HAS TO shift locked to locked ALL OF THE TIME.



All this does, IMO, is add something that isn't an option in any other transmission.



Don't forget that if you want the tc to be as tight in fluid coupling as DTT, then just tell them that is what you want and that is what you will get.



As far as what is designed to take the stresses in the transmission, the clutch packs DO take the additional stress. ATS uses a carbon compound in their frictions that can take extreme heat if needed. And if you have a DTT trans, no, you can't shift locked to locked without breaking things because it is not designed to do that, not because it is a weak transmission.

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Originally posted by Greg Boardman



I have a couple of questions:



First, you said that there is something "more right" about this transmission. What is more right about it.



Second, What can be improved upon with the DTT system. Explain

“More right” in this case refers to a converter that doesn’t depend on fluid coupling to transfer power. No matter how efficient, fluid coupling is inferior to lockup.



I also don’t want the converter to be as tight because it gets to hot in my driving situations. If I were going to stay with the DTT trans, I would go to the 89% converter to help with the heat and stalling issues. The thing that really makes me not want to do that is the fact that I AM NOT satisfied with the top end performance of my DTT converter that I have now (91%), and the 89% will be even less efficient on the top end. Not ok. I am through compromising with my transmission; I want it all. Oo.

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Originally posted by Joseph Donnelly

Come to May Madness and you can talk to representatives from several automatic transmission companies. Get real information from the companies directly, and make up your own mind. There will be Rams from at least some of them, so you can get test rides too.

I will be there to give test rides for people considering ATS, or anyone else who wants to go for a ride in my "grandpa truck". Oo. Oo.



I call it that because it still looks exactly the same as when I bought it from a 66 year old guy. "My grandpa is faster than your grandpa!"

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Originally posted by rrausch

You know Fred, I'll tell you something else.

Another reason why I am going with ATS is that in reading all these Trans. threads, I've never seen the guys at ATS take a cheap shot at anybody.

This is one of the qualities of the ATS guys that gives me so much respect for them. They DON'T go around telling people that "ATS stuff is better than your stuff; your stuff = garbage. " "We are right and everyone else is wrong. "



It is a refreshingly different and honorable approach.

 

[LSMITH]

You know, I have read a lot about guys worried about locked to locked shifts, if you are not running BIG power you are not going to break an input shaft or anything else. Is it harder on the transmission? Sure, but who really cares? Is it hard enough to cause problems under 350 HP? I am gonna find out for sure, but I really think not. I am one that wants lockup NOW, not in a second, I WANT IT NOW!!!!! If I tear it up I will place my trust in ATS to make it right. I am gonna shift that sucker locked every time, at least from 2nd on out.



Now to the serious part, you guys are not giving nearly enough credit to the stock transmission Dodge gave you. It is one tough unit. Sure if you drive like a moron you can tear it up, but it will take abuse that you will not believe. The mods to make it last at power levels most will never even hope for are not all that serious in nature (specific yes, but not huge). My transmission (stock from top to bottom) has taken a lot and is still going at over 90K miles.



I do not want the lag of a really tight TC, but I want my power to the ground NOW, RIGHT NOW!!! For me and guys like me the ATS is a great choice as you have both, good coupling that is not too tight and lockup to get the power down when you get a little boost going.



If you bought a DTT you got a first rate unit, no doubt about it. Some of us are looking for a little more or something a little different, that's all.



My honest opinions. Lets keep this level so we can continue debate.

 

[GLASMITHS]

CC your last post didn"t help:-{} :{