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AH64ID
TDR MEMBER
Depends entirely on the tuning. . look how high the EGTs are on your 05 with stock tuning!
Here you go. As you can read for yourself, it's regulated by the FTC so when you seek legal help, you are simply asking for redress, not necessarily punitive compensation (if that makes sense). The sentence below that is bold/underlined is almost verbatim from what was used by my attorneys (but to Barlow's comment before it was 6. 0 PSD). I do not have my warranty handy but it may, in fact, call out tuners.
So, getting back to the point, a READ-ONLY digital or analog gauge set (including pyro installation) seems well within our rights to install without warranty issues.
Keeping Your Mod's Warranty Intact
You'll often hear this myth regarding hacking or modding your car: it automatically cancels your warranty. Don't believe it as gospel. Sure, changing the windshield wiper blades can't cause the transmission to break, but your warranty won't allow you to do whatever you want to your car.
Warranty requirements
When it comes to new car warranties, automotive owners and enthusiasts have a very important lobbying body on their side, namely SEMA (the Specialty Equipment Market Association). SEMA represents the aftermarket manufacturers, wholesalers, retailers, and distributors in North America. Because this association of aftermarket parts suppliers has a vested interest in the continued sale of aftermarket parts, it has helped to keep new car manufacturers in check by successfully lobbying for legislation that prevents new car dealership service providers from denying warranty coverage, for example in a seized motor, because you chose to use those snazzy aftermarket carbon fiber windshield wipers instead of the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) parts sold through their parts/service departments.
Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act
The relevant legislation here, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty - Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act of 1975, protects consumers from being wrongfully denied warranty coverage by new car dealers.
The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act states, in part, in Title 15, United States Code, Section 2302, subdivision (c):
No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the [Federal Trade] Commission if —
(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefore.
Under this federal statute, a manufacturer who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle is prohibited from requiring you to use a service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer.
Further, under the act, aftermarket equipment that improves performance does not automatically void a vehicle manufacturer's original warranty, unless the warranty clearly states the addition of aftermarket equipment automatically voids your vehicle's warranty, or if it can be proven that the aftermarket device is the direct cause of the failure.
Specifically, the rules and regulations adopted by the FTC to govern the interpretation and enforcement of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act are set forth in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 16 - Commercial Practices, Chapter I - Federal Trade Commission, Subchapter G - Rules, Regulations, Statements and Interpretations under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Part 700 - Interpretations under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Contained within these rules and regulations is Section 700. 10, which states:
No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance. For example, provisions such as, "This warranty is void if service is performed by anyone other than an authorized 'ABC' dealer and all replacement parts must be genuine 'ABC' parts," and the like, are prohibited where the service or parts are not covered by the warranty. These provisions violate the Act in two ways. First, they violate the section 102(c) ban against tying arrangements. Second, such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of "unauthorized" articles or service. This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused.
Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law.
That being said, if you choose to modify your car, and suddenly the fancy new electronic control boxes that you added to your car make it run rough, not start when cold, or buck like a bronco, the dealer can and will charge a diagnostic fee to find out what is wrong with your car. If it turns out that your modifications are the cause of the problem, the dealer has every right not only to charge you for the diagnosis and repair, but to also void the portion of the warranty that has been compromised by the use of those aftermarket parts. Likewise, a dealer may refuse to service your car if it is adorned with aftermarket parts to the extent that its technicians cannot reasonably be expected to diagnose what is wrong with your car. As an example, all cars manufactured after 1994 are equipped with OBDII (On Board Diagnostics II) ports that dealers use to read engine diagnostic codes for everything from an engine vacuum leak to a malfunctioning emissions system. If your chosen modification has compromised the dealer service center's ability to scan for these codes (aftermarket ECUs generally do not support OBDII), then there is a strong probability that the dealer service center will:
- Deny warranty coverage
- Refuse to service the car
- Note with your factory field representative for your region/district that your car has been "modified"
Your car's manufacturer notes are your car's "permanent record. " Above all else, avoid compromising these notes. This is nearly always connected with your vehicles' VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) and will
Ensure that your car will not have its warranty honored at any dealer service center in your area.
Dramatically reduce the resale and/or trade-in value of your car.
Event participation
Some recent controversy surrounds car manufacturers' monitoring of SCCA (Sports Car Club of America) and NHRA (National Hot Rod Association) events and noting license plates and VINs as a justification for denying warranty coverage and either voiding out the warranty, or placing it on "restricted" status.
The legality of these tactics by automobile manufacturers, in particular where the car is marketed with SCCA membership or literature or advertised in race-modified form, is questionable. To protect yourself, be aware of this trend and take the appropriate precautions in listing critical identifying information when participating in regional autocrosses, tracks days, and drag races.
If you believe that your warranty has been wrongly canceled or placed on restriction either because of modifications made to your car, or because of your membership in, affiliation with, or participating in sanctioned club events or gatherings, consult with an attorney and use SEMA as a resource to fight the denial of coverage.
When it comes to legality and warranty concerns, neither proceed based solely on slick advertising and marketing by parts manufacturers and resellers, nor allow yourself to be cowed into paranoia. Information is power, and knowing your rights and obligations is the foundation to any thoughtfully modified car.
Read more: Keeping Your Mod's Warranty Intact - For Dummies
So, getting back to the point, a READ-ONLY digital or analog gauge set (including pyro installation) seems well within our rights to install without warranty issues.
Keeping Your Mod's Warranty Intact
You'll often hear this myth regarding hacking or modding your car: it automatically cancels your warranty. Don't believe it as gospel. Sure, changing the windshield wiper blades can't cause the transmission to break, but your warranty won't allow you to do whatever you want to your car.
Warranty requirements
When it comes to new car warranties, automotive owners and enthusiasts have a very important lobbying body on their side, namely SEMA (the Specialty Equipment Market Association). SEMA represents the aftermarket manufacturers, wholesalers, retailers, and distributors in North America. Because this association of aftermarket parts suppliers has a vested interest in the continued sale of aftermarket parts, it has helped to keep new car manufacturers in check by successfully lobbying for legislation that prevents new car dealership service providers from denying warranty coverage, for example in a seized motor, because you chose to use those snazzy aftermarket carbon fiber windshield wipers instead of the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) parts sold through their parts/service departments.
Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act
The relevant legislation here, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty - Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act of 1975, protects consumers from being wrongfully denied warranty coverage by new car dealers.
The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act states, in part, in Title 15, United States Code, Section 2302, subdivision (c):
No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the [Federal Trade] Commission if —
(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefore.
Under this federal statute, a manufacturer who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle is prohibited from requiring you to use a service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer.
Further, under the act, aftermarket equipment that improves performance does not automatically void a vehicle manufacturer's original warranty, unless the warranty clearly states the addition of aftermarket equipment automatically voids your vehicle's warranty, or if it can be proven that the aftermarket device is the direct cause of the failure.
Specifically, the rules and regulations adopted by the FTC to govern the interpretation and enforcement of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act are set forth in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 16 - Commercial Practices, Chapter I - Federal Trade Commission, Subchapter G - Rules, Regulations, Statements and Interpretations under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Part 700 - Interpretations under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Contained within these rules and regulations is Section 700. 10, which states:
No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance. For example, provisions such as, "This warranty is void if service is performed by anyone other than an authorized 'ABC' dealer and all replacement parts must be genuine 'ABC' parts," and the like, are prohibited where the service or parts are not covered by the warranty. These provisions violate the Act in two ways. First, they violate the section 102(c) ban against tying arrangements. Second, such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of "unauthorized" articles or service. This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused.
Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law.
That being said, if you choose to modify your car, and suddenly the fancy new electronic control boxes that you added to your car make it run rough, not start when cold, or buck like a bronco, the dealer can and will charge a diagnostic fee to find out what is wrong with your car. If it turns out that your modifications are the cause of the problem, the dealer has every right not only to charge you for the diagnosis and repair, but to also void the portion of the warranty that has been compromised by the use of those aftermarket parts. Likewise, a dealer may refuse to service your car if it is adorned with aftermarket parts to the extent that its technicians cannot reasonably be expected to diagnose what is wrong with your car. As an example, all cars manufactured after 1994 are equipped with OBDII (On Board Diagnostics II) ports that dealers use to read engine diagnostic codes for everything from an engine vacuum leak to a malfunctioning emissions system. If your chosen modification has compromised the dealer service center's ability to scan for these codes (aftermarket ECUs generally do not support OBDII), then there is a strong probability that the dealer service center will:
- Deny warranty coverage
- Refuse to service the car
- Note with your factory field representative for your region/district that your car has been "modified"
Your car's manufacturer notes are your car's "permanent record. " Above all else, avoid compromising these notes. This is nearly always connected with your vehicles' VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) and will
Ensure that your car will not have its warranty honored at any dealer service center in your area.
Dramatically reduce the resale and/or trade-in value of your car.
Event participation
Some recent controversy surrounds car manufacturers' monitoring of SCCA (Sports Car Club of America) and NHRA (National Hot Rod Association) events and noting license plates and VINs as a justification for denying warranty coverage and either voiding out the warranty, or placing it on "restricted" status.
The legality of these tactics by automobile manufacturers, in particular where the car is marketed with SCCA membership or literature or advertised in race-modified form, is questionable. To protect yourself, be aware of this trend and take the appropriate precautions in listing critical identifying information when participating in regional autocrosses, tracks days, and drag races.
If you believe that your warranty has been wrongly canceled or placed on restriction either because of modifications made to your car, or because of your membership in, affiliation with, or participating in sanctioned club events or gatherings, consult with an attorney and use SEMA as a resource to fight the denial of coverage.
When it comes to legality and warranty concerns, neither proceed based solely on slick advertising and marketing by parts manufacturers and resellers, nor allow yourself to be cowed into paranoia. Information is power, and knowing your rights and obligations is the foundation to any thoughtfully modified car.
Read more: Keeping Your Mod's Warranty Intact - For Dummies
YES if he beats them they will half to pay his lawyer fee's. HE has told you it is only gauges!!
mwilson
TDR MEMBER
I work at a truck dealership and can plainly see both sides of this. I also have a magic box on my wagon.
I am fortunate that my Dodge dealer gets all excited over boxes and add on trinkets, he has even had me research and recommend some for his customers. He is up to speed with it.
But I have to agree with Harvey and as I stated in an earlier post, if you don't think the dealer is going to be good with it then remove it before you take the truck in.
Keep it simple, don't ask for trouble.
If they ask what all the Velcro on the dash is for tell 'em it is where you like to stick your Beanie Baby collection so that they can see out the windshield too on a long trip. :-laf
Mike. :-laf
THE people that has 07 up that works there trucks has not had any problems with there trucks. The people that drives short runs and a lot of stop and go has this problems. It does not get hot enough to take care of it self. I have a friend that has over 300. 000 miles and no trouble!! He works his truck hard and is on the road most of the time. The newer Dodges does not have this problems with them.
A stock truck can go over 1350 if you are in a hard pull on a long hill or mountain. My truck is stock except for the air witch is still running a stock filter.
It will go over 1350 in the mountains and also on rout 44 across MO pulling my fifth wheel. I run ISSPRO gauges with a triple pillar post. NO dealer ever told me my truck was not STOCK. My gauges tell me that I need to shift or back out of it.
craigo,
I read the material you posted above but you didn't cite the source so I don't know if it is quoted verbatim from the MM Act or an interpretation. In any case, I don't see the absolute consumer rights you are reading into the MM Act. The Dodge owner can't take a copy of the MM Act to the dealer and wave it like a magic wand and expect the dealer to apologize and reinstate his warranty.
Here are the pertinent parts I see:
"That being said, if you choose to modify your car, and suddenly the fancy new electronic control boxes that you added to your car make it run rough, not start when cold, or buck like a bronco, the dealer can and will charge a diagnostic fee to find out what is wrong with your car. If it turns out that your modifications are the cause of the problem, the dealer has every right not only to charge you for the diagnosis and repair, but to also void the portion of the warranty that has been compromised by the use of those aftermarket parts. Likewise, a dealer may refuse to service your car if it is adorned with aftermarket parts to the extent that its technicians cannot reasonably be expected to diagnose what is wrong with your car. "
We have no idea what the details of the original poster's visit to his dealer really were. He may, or may not, have modified his truck. OP's don't always tell the entire truth and perhaps for good reason. His truck may have had only "read only" gauges, perhaps not and he doesn't want to disclose that information on a public forum. And perhaps the Edge products are read only, perhaps not. The OP indicated that the dealer service department he visited believed (rightly or wrongly, I don't know) that the device or devices he had installed caused a problem. A good and knowledgeable dealer tech can detect many things about our Cummins engines and the way they have been used and operated by simply plugging in the OBD port and analyzing the data.
The next paragraph says the "dealer must prove" but if the dealer has initiated voiding of the warranty the dealer apparently believes he is correct. No dealer is dumb enough to be unaware of the MM Act. The operative words here is the consumer has "a right to demand compliance. " That means in a court of law.
"Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law. "
"If you believe that your warranty has been wrongly canceled or placed on restriction either because of modifications made to your car, or because of your membership in, affiliation with, or participating in sanctioned club events or gatherings, consult with an attorney and use SEMA as a resource to fight the denial of coverage. "
That "consult with an attorney" phrase is the key to the entire discussion. If the consumer believes his aftermarket equipment did not cause issues but the dealer and Chrysler did and voided his warranty, the consumer has to hire a lawyer and file a lawsuit. That is what I have said since my first comment on this subject. That will require the consumer to find a lawyer who will represent him. A lawyer is not in the business of providing pro-bono or free legal services. A lawyer may be experienced in this area of the law and feel strongly that he can win a lawsuit and be compensated by the defendant, Chrysler, and not require payment by his client, the claimant. But unless the lawyer is experienced in such law and feels he can win, someone is going to have to pay the lawyer. That normally means the owner with the voided warranty unless he wins his case in court.
In the case where you say you sued Furd and won that should have been a no brainer and easy to find a lawyer to represent you. Everybody in America but Furd buyers knew years ago the Furd/Navistar Sick. Ohh was a junk motor.
That one was easy. Finding a lawyer to sue Chrysler because his client was using aftermarket equipment on his truck and his warranty was voided is not likely to be so clear cut and easy.
I am not an attorney, have no legal training other than basic business law classes, and don't claim to be the final authority here. I'm telling you what my opinion is.
I read the material you posted above but you didn't cite the source so I don't know if it is quoted verbatim from the MM Act or an interpretation. In any case, I don't see the absolute consumer rights you are reading into the MM Act. The Dodge owner can't take a copy of the MM Act to the dealer and wave it like a magic wand and expect the dealer to apologize and reinstate his warranty.
Here are the pertinent parts I see:
"That being said, if you choose to modify your car, and suddenly the fancy new electronic control boxes that you added to your car make it run rough, not start when cold, or buck like a bronco, the dealer can and will charge a diagnostic fee to find out what is wrong with your car. If it turns out that your modifications are the cause of the problem, the dealer has every right not only to charge you for the diagnosis and repair, but to also void the portion of the warranty that has been compromised by the use of those aftermarket parts. Likewise, a dealer may refuse to service your car if it is adorned with aftermarket parts to the extent that its technicians cannot reasonably be expected to diagnose what is wrong with your car. "
We have no idea what the details of the original poster's visit to his dealer really were. He may, or may not, have modified his truck. OP's don't always tell the entire truth and perhaps for good reason. His truck may have had only "read only" gauges, perhaps not and he doesn't want to disclose that information on a public forum. And perhaps the Edge products are read only, perhaps not. The OP indicated that the dealer service department he visited believed (rightly or wrongly, I don't know) that the device or devices he had installed caused a problem. A good and knowledgeable dealer tech can detect many things about our Cummins engines and the way they have been used and operated by simply plugging in the OBD port and analyzing the data.
The next paragraph says the "dealer must prove" but if the dealer has initiated voiding of the warranty the dealer apparently believes he is correct. No dealer is dumb enough to be unaware of the MM Act. The operative words here is the consumer has "a right to demand compliance. " That means in a court of law.
"Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law. "
"If you believe that your warranty has been wrongly canceled or placed on restriction either because of modifications made to your car, or because of your membership in, affiliation with, or participating in sanctioned club events or gatherings, consult with an attorney and use SEMA as a resource to fight the denial of coverage. "
That "consult with an attorney" phrase is the key to the entire discussion. If the consumer believes his aftermarket equipment did not cause issues but the dealer and Chrysler did and voided his warranty, the consumer has to hire a lawyer and file a lawsuit. That is what I have said since my first comment on this subject. That will require the consumer to find a lawyer who will represent him. A lawyer is not in the business of providing pro-bono or free legal services. A lawyer may be experienced in this area of the law and feel strongly that he can win a lawsuit and be compensated by the defendant, Chrysler, and not require payment by his client, the claimant. But unless the lawyer is experienced in such law and feels he can win, someone is going to have to pay the lawyer. That normally means the owner with the voided warranty unless he wins his case in court.
In the case where you say you sued Furd and won that should have been a no brainer and easy to find a lawyer to represent you. Everybody in America but Furd buyers knew years ago the Furd/Navistar Sick. Ohh was a junk motor.
That one was easy. Finding a lawyer to sue Chrysler because his client was using aftermarket equipment on his truck and his warranty was voided is not likely to be so clear cut and easy.
I am not an attorney, have no legal training other than basic business law classes, and don't claim to be the final authority here. I'm telling you what my opinion is.
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:-laf Your truck was not designed to tow a 38ft trailer. I was also refering to the 6. 7 not 5. 9.
Chrysler was no where near as concerned about mods on the 5,9 compared to the 6. 7.
While I am really late to this dance the MM act is sponsored by SEMA, a group of manufacturers of aftermarket equipment and have as much clout and legal expertise as the car companies and they will vigorously defend there products if installed and used per manufacturer instructions.
Vigorously defend? Yeah, right.
In ten years of TDR membership and reading lots of posts written by members who have modified their trucks then suffered severe mechanical breakdowns I've never read of a single aftermarket parts manufacturer who has done anything to help the owner.
No owner has ever reported that the aftermarket parts manufacturer or retailer has ever stepped up to the plate and paid for engine or transmission repairs or replacement, paid for the owner's legal representation to sue Chrysler or Dodge, or done anything other than give lip service to their customer over the phone.
Many of them don't even provide much support when their own parts fail.
If anyone would like to dispute my statement please provide a link to the posts that report assistance received from the aftermarket supplier.
If that were accurate we would not have such a problem($) getting aftermarket
products approved for use in smog control states.
They do try but do not have all that much clout.
Harvey
As usual your rectal vision either keeps you from doing research or just makes you make statements based on your narrow view. Please take a minute to view SEMA's web site. SEMA was founded in 1963 and has grown into THE voice for after market manufacturers and enthusiasts. They do not employ clairvoyants so they do not know when their help might be needed. Bob4x4 they have been very instamental in getting many products approved for use in CA. This site is for you Black Book: Emissions Certification Guidance | Specialty Equipment Market Association
Harvey, I know better but alas I try SEMA SAN - SEMA ACTION NETWORK
As usual your rectal vision either keeps you from doing research or just makes you make statements based on your narrow view. Please take a minute to view SEMA's web site. SEMA was founded in 1963 and has grown into THE voice for after market manufacturers and enthusiasts. They do not employ clairvoyants so they do not know when their help might be needed. Bob4x4 they have been very instamental in getting many products approved for use in CA. This site is for you Black Book: Emissions Certification Guidance | Specialty Equipment Market Association
Harvey, I know better but alas I try SEMA SAN - SEMA ACTION NETWORK
Last edited by a moderator:
Try offering links to owner reports where the aftermarket industry has helped instead of stupid insults and dumb opinions.
Of course SEMA claims they will blah, blah, blah! They vigorously defend their crap and deny any responsibility. You probably believe the claims by talking heads offering gimmicks on late night television also.
As I stated in my earlier post, I've been reading TDR website posts for ten years and read many owners whining when their dealer voided their warranty because they were using aftermarket junk and destroyed their engine. Some have contacted the aftermarket manufacturer and posted the lip service they received. The lip service always tells them that Dodge has to honor their warranty because the aftermarket product can never be responsible.
Please provide one, just one single owner report where Banks, BD, or any other manufacturer of aftermarket parts has stepped up and taken responsibility by paying for the replacement engine.
If you can't, you confirm my statement above.
Last edited by a moderator:
Harvey
Why is everyone else's opinion but YOURS dumb? Why is it you are always right and everyone else is wrong? You are educated articulate and have knowledge of many things BUT your jaded look on life makes me very sad. Look around Harvey, when you and I are gone no one will even remember who we were or what we liked or disliked! I will not do your research for you! I hope the users of DTR do there own due diligence
and seak legal advice from knowledgeable people (not blinded) when confronted with dealer problems. This thread was about a read only device, not a booster nor controller, edge has SEMA watching it's back side but the consumer must ask for help, it's not part of the installation instructions. I am done with YOU and SEMA does not even know who you are!
Why is everyone else's opinion but YOURS dumb? Why is it you are always right and everyone else is wrong? You are educated articulate and have knowledge of many things BUT your jaded look on life makes me very sad. Look around Harvey, when you and I are gone no one will even remember who we were or what we liked or disliked! I will not do your research for you! I hope the users of DTR do there own due diligence
and seak legal advice from knowledgeable people (not blinded) when confronted with dealer problems. This thread was about a read only device, not a booster nor controller, edge has SEMA watching it's back side but the consumer must ask for help, it's not part of the installation instructions. I am done with YOU and SEMA does not even know who you are!
Thanks. You devoted two long posts to criticizing me but never posted the slightest thread of proof that SEMA or any of their member aftermarket manufacturers will provide anything but hot air when an owner buys their products, uses their products as intended, and trashes an engine. You made a bold statement I knew to be incorrect and could only bluster and call me names when you couldn't back it up withe evidence.
That was my point.
The aftermarket manufacturers and vendors want their gullible customers to believe that they will somehow warranty the owner but in fact, their vigorous defense is reserved only for their products.
I have seen it many times here on TDR and I would guess that it is very common on the websites heavily frequented by the younger "hot rod" types.
Buyer beware!
I must disagree. I am sure that some of us will remember those we have grown to respect and most likely forget the rest. Atta Boy Harvey :-laf
I wish sema had the clout you think they have.
When it cost approximately 20k to have the testing done to have an airflow only
product legal... ... ... ... ... .
How many small companies can afford that?
If Sema had the clout you think they have. All products of similiar design would be included with out the over priced testing process
When it cost approximately 20k to have the testing done to have an airflow only
product legal... ... ... ... ... .
How many small companies can afford that?
If Sema had the clout you think they have. All products of similiar design would be included with out the over priced testing process
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Back Issues
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