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Factory getting tougher on adding boxes to Increaseing hoursepower
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kblranch said:JR2 and Skargo
When dealers begin using an attitude of categorical imperative in regards to the warranties that they issue I would be most happy to recipocate. If the dealers were truly above reproach there would be no need for a written warranty or sales contract as a good old fashioned western hand shake would seal the deal. However the days of Roy Rogers and Hop Along Cassidy are long gone. If you are questioning my personal integrity you have come to the wrong place my friend. I spent 25 years in business and was never sued and when it came time to sue someone that reneged on paying me for $250,000 for extras on a goverment subcontract I chose to liquidate and sell off my company rather than deal with this kind of scum.
It is wonderfull to see that there are still two such wonderfully pious individuals left in this world and its too bad that that we are all not that way as it would be such a lovely and loving world to live in.
Live and let live and Be carefull about casting the first stone.
YOU are the one advocating dishonesty, not me. I work at a dealer, and we take pride in our work. I can understand your frustration, because there are alot of bad dealers.
Sadly, there are not many businesses left you can do business with, on a handshake and a smile.
Thanks for making assumptions on my piousness, you seem a bit judgemental. That's understandable, guilty people usually try and shift the blame.
Have a wonderful life, thinking everyone is out to get you. :-laf
RustyJC said:I believe the point is that, just because something might be legal, that doesn't mean that it's morally right.
Rusty
Ok, lets talk morality. Has a dealer ever asked you how much you could afford on a critical part for your vehicle BEFORE quoting you a price for it??? If you had said, "I've only got ten dollars to my name right now", do you think a dealer would reply with "ok, then give me 5 dollars and we'll call er even"
Nope, doesn't happen. They don't care if you're selling the clothes off your back to get that vehicle fixed. It's business, and business isn't moral. Business is cut throat and you have to be the same way or you'll get robbed.
Another good example is when you bought a vehicle. How many times has a dealer quoted you a fair price from the start. I've NEVER had this happen. If you hadn't bartered with them, would they still take your money even though they took you to the bank? The answer is yes, they would take your money and not even blink. They would take your money even if they knew you had starving children at home.
So if you're a lottery winner, self made millionare, or receiving a large inheretance, please stay moral. The economy needs you.
For us blue collars on a limited budget, don't take a single warranty repair for granted.
Viper,
I get tired of repeating myself but I am going to do it one last time just for you because you seem particularly cynical:
I refuse to let other peoples actions dictate whether or not I am honest with them.
If you sleep better at night telling yourself "Hey, better them than me" or "Better to screw you first than have you screw me" then that's YOUR business. I am just saying that no matter how you justify it, two wrongs don't make a right.
I would recommend you listen to "Skip a Rope" by the Kentucky Headhunters sometime but I digress.
Lastly, I am sick and tired of listening to folks give the "I am just a blue collar guy" excuse. Whether I am blue collar, white collar or red collar, we all work just as hard for our money and NOBODY likes giving it away.
The simple fact remains that if you are worried about your warranty, don't freaking bomb your truck. AND if you bomb your truck, don't come crying like a little spoiled child when it breaks because you bomb'd it.
As somebody else said, this thread has been hijacked enough and I apologize for my part in that.
I get tired of repeating myself but I am going to do it one last time just for you because you seem particularly cynical:
I refuse to let other peoples actions dictate whether or not I am honest with them.
If you sleep better at night telling yourself "Hey, better them than me" or "Better to screw you first than have you screw me" then that's YOUR business. I am just saying that no matter how you justify it, two wrongs don't make a right.
I would recommend you listen to "Skip a Rope" by the Kentucky Headhunters sometime but I digress.
Lastly, I am sick and tired of listening to folks give the "I am just a blue collar guy" excuse. Whether I am blue collar, white collar or red collar, we all work just as hard for our money and NOBODY likes giving it away.
The simple fact remains that if you are worried about your warranty, don't freaking bomb your truck. AND if you bomb your truck, don't come crying like a little spoiled child when it breaks because you bomb'd it.
As somebody else said, this thread has been hijacked enough and I apologize for my part in that.
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Huskar, no need to get upset here. I was replying to Rusty's post. 
Getting your warranty repair isn't about morality. It's about the law. And the law says, your warranty is only void on the parts effected by the mod, if thats the case. There are a lot of average, hard working people, that just can't afford to have entire warranties void because of a mod confession to the dealer. If I were a service writer, and a guy came in with a turbo that crapped out, then said he had an edge or some other kind of box, thats the first thing I would look at. If I hadn't been told about the box, then I'd probably be replacing the turbo with no questions upon realizing it was bad.
I guess I arm up for war if I feel like a dealer isn't being honest with me. Most of the time they aren't. Even if they are, years of screwing people has driven their credibility in to the ground. Everyone knows, you pay twice as much for service at the dealer as you would at a private mechanic.
Getting your warranty repair isn't about morality. It's about the law. And the law says, your warranty is only void on the parts effected by the mod, if thats the case. There are a lot of average, hard working people, that just can't afford to have entire warranties void because of a mod confession to the dealer. If I were a service writer, and a guy came in with a turbo that crapped out, then said he had an edge or some other kind of box, thats the first thing I would look at. If I hadn't been told about the box, then I'd probably be replacing the turbo with no questions upon realizing it was bad. I guess I arm up for war if I feel like a dealer isn't being honest with me. Most of the time they aren't. Even if they are, years of screwing people has driven their credibility in to the ground. Everyone knows, you pay twice as much for service at the dealer as you would at a private mechanic.
ViperQA1 said:
Logic dictates that if someone is in a tight enough financial position that they can't afford to loose their warranty, they have no business compromising their family's security by spending dollars on a "non essential" add-on to a perfectly capable (in stock form) truck.
While I agree that a dealer should cover items that with certainty are not caused by a performance device, the MMWA does NOTHING to protect against those types of devices. The MMWA is strictly for maintenance type REPLACEMENT parts. Take a look at the warranty book, you will see in black and white that the power train warranty can or will be voided with performance enhancing devices, i. e. anything that alters the original operating parameters of the vehicle.
Many have said that the manufacturer should offer the warranty as an option, the problem with that is it is federally mandated for the manufacturer to provide an emission warranty. As integrated as the engine systems are these days, they kind of go hand in hand.
I have no idea what you do for a living Viper, however, even though the market pays you "Y" amount for your services, I will gladly pay you "X" amount (1/2 of "Y") to hire you, because that is all that I can afford. When can you start? You say it's only a business, however, that business has owners, stakeholders, employees, and employee's families to consider when protecting it's assets and future.
Ok, sorry, that was kind of $mart *****, but you get my point.
I really think we've beat this horse to death. The fact is, only a rare few will have their warranties denied because of mods. So far, my dealer has been pretty good.
I look at it like this. Rules and laws are made to be broken. Its only illegal if you get caught.
As far as a dealer screwing you, it starts with DC. They build the vehicles and put them on the market knowing damn well there are going to be problems with them. and don't care one dang bit about you or me the people out here buying them. All they care about is getting there big fat pay check, and denying as much warrantee work as possible. If a dealer has a good rapor with DC and star and you have a problem or a warrantee issue they can usually work it out. If the dealer don't have a good rapor with DC and star watch out.
As fas as morels and self integrity goes if I can get away with a warrantee clam with my truck BOMBed then more power to me. Me screwing the dealer isn't no different from them screwing me or some other unsuspecting customer . And don't tell me the dealer don't do that. I worked for a dealer when I was in high school I know and seen what goes on. Don't tell me differently because I worked for one of the best dealers in the area at the time.
The bottom line is what goes around comes around. You screw me IM going to screw you back.
And if a dealer dose cancel my warrantee or warrantee on a part due to a BOMB they damn well better be able to prove that the BOMB caused the problem.
They better do there homework and be able to prove it to me.
As far as a dealer screwing you, it starts with DC. They build the vehicles and put them on the market knowing damn well there are going to be problems with them. and don't care one dang bit about you or me the people out here buying them. All they care about is getting there big fat pay check, and denying as much warrantee work as possible. If a dealer has a good rapor with DC and star and you have a problem or a warrantee issue they can usually work it out. If the dealer don't have a good rapor with DC and star watch out.
As fas as morels and self integrity goes if I can get away with a warrantee clam with my truck BOMBed then more power to me. Me screwing the dealer isn't no different from them screwing me or some other unsuspecting customer . And don't tell me the dealer don't do that. I worked for a dealer when I was in high school I know and seen what goes on. Don't tell me differently because I worked for one of the best dealers in the area at the time.
The bottom line is what goes around comes around. You screw me IM going to screw you back.
And if a dealer dose cancel my warrantee or warrantee on a part due to a BOMB they damn well better be able to prove that the BOMB caused the problem.
They better do there homework and be able to prove it to me.
Truckie, I agree with you until the point of, "Laws are made to be broken".
There is no law that says either way that the dealer has to look for modifications to try and deny a waranty, and vice versa, there is no law saying we have to disclose all work and mods done to our trucks.
If a consumer removes a "performance enhancing" product before dealer work, Is it wrong? I would say it is not. Now, If a consumer removes the said "performance product" and tries to have waranty work performed on a failure that was a direct result of the "performance enhancing" product. I think that's fraud, and would not like that to be done to me with my business.
e. g. If I sell a turbo not rated for nitrous, but a customer installs nitrous after installing the turbo, and using it results in a damaged turbo. Then he removes the nitrous, and brings it to me and wants the turbo warantied, I would not be very happy when I found out I was on the recieving end of a fraud.
However, it is still wrong if it is a law, and you don't get caught. Otherwise, I would much like to kill a few people at random, and sneek off somewhere in order to not get caught. I guess that made it right? (If it's not wrong, what is it?)
Of course, waranty work, and morals, although needing seperate threads, fall under the same criteria for most.
I also feel there is a difference in waranty work done by the dealer, and waranty work offered by performance and aftermarket companies.
Banks is the worst at this. It is also the main reason I do not suggest hardly any of Banks stuff. They claim that enhancing the performance of your motor by over 30% will not void any of your motor or drivetrain waranties. Then they say if a dealer tries to void waranty to refer to mag-mos act. BANKS WILL NOT STEP UP TO THE PLATE FOR YOU. It is merely a sales tactic.
Merrick
There is no law that says either way that the dealer has to look for modifications to try and deny a waranty, and vice versa, there is no law saying we have to disclose all work and mods done to our trucks.
If a consumer removes a "performance enhancing" product before dealer work, Is it wrong? I would say it is not. Now, If a consumer removes the said "performance product" and tries to have waranty work performed on a failure that was a direct result of the "performance enhancing" product. I think that's fraud, and would not like that to be done to me with my business.
e. g. If I sell a turbo not rated for nitrous, but a customer installs nitrous after installing the turbo, and using it results in a damaged turbo. Then he removes the nitrous, and brings it to me and wants the turbo warantied, I would not be very happy when I found out I was on the recieving end of a fraud.
However, it is still wrong if it is a law, and you don't get caught. Otherwise, I would much like to kill a few people at random, and sneek off somewhere in order to not get caught. I guess that made it right? (If it's not wrong, what is it?)
Of course, waranty work, and morals, although needing seperate threads, fall under the same criteria for most.
I also feel there is a difference in waranty work done by the dealer, and waranty work offered by performance and aftermarket companies.
Banks is the worst at this. It is also the main reason I do not suggest hardly any of Banks stuff. They claim that enhancing the performance of your motor by over 30% will not void any of your motor or drivetrain waranties. Then they say if a dealer tries to void waranty to refer to mag-mos act. BANKS WILL NOT STEP UP TO THE PLATE FOR YOU. It is merely a sales tactic.
Merrick
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Truckie
I have to disagree with you that DC (or any other manufacturer) just puts their products out there with no regard to the people who buy them. That is what the warranty provided by the manufacturer is for. It is a legal contract between you and the manufacturer. You have to do certain things and the manufacturer has to do certain things. DC does not have to give you a 100,000 mile warranty by law. They do it because it is good business and it is the competitive thing to do. Last time I checked, businesses are in business to make money, and they do not stay in business by trying to screw people. From your post I assume that you are not in business for yourself, because if you were I doubt you would have the "I'll screw them before they screw me" attitude. Unfortunately the good guys that play it honest get screwed by the guys like yourself, because the manufacturer has to tighten down the rules for everyone because of the minority that try and beat the system.
It is sad that the world had degraded to the point that we all just can't be responsible for our own actions.
I know I screw up enough stuff on my own, without having to pay for some other persons screw up too. I'm sure DC and all the other manufacturers feel the same way. And this is not just an auto manufacturer thing. It applies to every business out there.
I have to disagree with you that DC (or any other manufacturer) just puts their products out there with no regard to the people who buy them. That is what the warranty provided by the manufacturer is for. It is a legal contract between you and the manufacturer. You have to do certain things and the manufacturer has to do certain things. DC does not have to give you a 100,000 mile warranty by law. They do it because it is good business and it is the competitive thing to do. Last time I checked, businesses are in business to make money, and they do not stay in business by trying to screw people. From your post I assume that you are not in business for yourself, because if you were I doubt you would have the "I'll screw them before they screw me" attitude. Unfortunately the good guys that play it honest get screwed by the guys like yourself, because the manufacturer has to tighten down the rules for everyone because of the minority that try and beat the system.
It is sad that the world had degraded to the point that we all just can't be responsible for our own actions.
I know I screw up enough stuff on my own, without having to pay for some other persons screw up too. I'm sure DC and all the other manufacturers feel the same way. And this is not just an auto manufacturer thing. It applies to every business out there.
sag2 said:
sag 2 I totally disagree with you on that. DC put out trucks the last couple years knowing they had problems with them. Starting with the 2 gens and there lift pumps and VP 44's, the early 3rd gens with trainees, and ball joints.
And if you think any other truck manufacturer is any better than just look at FORD and there problems.
As far as me being in business for my self I am. IM a owner operator with my own tractor trailer. Believe me I get screwed by people all the time. A lot of the time there is nothing I can do about it. Believe me if IM doing business with someone IM not going to screw them just to screw them, I want there business and keep it as long as I can.
As far as the good guy getting screwed by people like me I don't think so. Its the guys out there that buy these truck and want to haul 10 to in a 1 ton truck, and want to know why there trany is no good or there springs are broken or the axle snapped.
All I ask is that DC puts out a truck that is going to do what they say, and when a part dose fail don't deny me my warrantee and don't give me the run around.
Just fix it.
As far as my statement that laws and rules are made to be broken, don't tell me that each and every one of you never ever broke a law or a rule.
It is we are bending them as far as we can, just the same as DC bends and breaks them everyday.
Huskerman yes I said it. So don't sit there and tell me you did not break any laws or rules today. This includes speeding, parking, etc, and even things at your job. Its impossible not to break any laws or rules in a 24 hour period.
RustyJC You don't want to do business with me, that's you business.
FWIWI, I am a law abiding citizen and proud of it, and have never been sued or taken to court.
Truckie said:
Dude! Rules are not made to be broken. Are they broken? Yes, In fact, I drove for 1 hour today doing 68MPH in a 65MPH zone. Was it wrong? Yes. Did I get caught? No. Did that make it right? No.
Rules are made to be abided by, but not all of us do that. in fact, my truck at 500/1000 hp/tq is not legal anyway, but by not getting caught does not make it right!
We bend and break laws, but that's not what they are there for. If you really believe that laws are only in exsistence to be broken, you have an IQ equal to or less than the average temperature of the Antartic.
Merrick
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