Front traction-aiding differential?

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Looking for impressions from those on here with a front TAD in their CTD... . at some point in the future I'm gonna take the plunge into a major front axle upgrade. I'm not really thrilled with the center axle disconnect that the powers at Chrysler saw fit to "bless" us with (note I never blamed DC for this one-engineering here was done way before their time :D )-one more thing to fail at an inopportune time. TJ's and newer XJ's, as well as Dakotas for that matter, seem to get along just fine with everything rolling up front all the time.

Also less than pleased with the crappy 44-sized axle shafts that we got stuck with-what's up with that? For the money that they extract from us for these trucks we should still have 35 spline gear up front-IMO anyways.



So I plan (somewhere down the road when I either win the lottery or my bankbook finally recovers from BOMBing :cool: ) to swap under a reverse-rotation 60 (stronger ring and pinion as well as higher driveline for clearance and also less joint angularity) with no disconnect at all-depending on how I go about it that will probably be accomplished with drive plates instead of hubs so if I did get in a parts-breaking bind I still could pull the affected side's plate and get out of where I'm going). Of course 35 spline shafts would be included in the build..... but I'm getting off the point of my original post here :rolleyes:



I'm leery of running an ARB-or any internally-contained air-actuated device for that matter-in the sub-zero weather that we see here for a good part of the year. I got bit in the butt by air leaks in the cold in my truck-driving days-don't plan a repeat of it with the Silver Cloud. I do agree that a selectable locker is the best way for front end use-and maybe by the time I'm ready to go OX Trax (or whatever their name is) will have a manually-selectable one for a D60 on the market. Tractech apparently soon will have an Electrac version of their Truetrac out for the D60's-works like a standard Truetrac until you flip the switch at which time it becomes fully locked. This sounds like what I want-but I'm curious as to what ill effects running a TAD in the front axle in the wintertime will cause. I know it's probably not the most wonderful thing you could do-but I'm also theorizing all that weight on the front end plants the tires hard enough to virtually eliminate any slip that the TAD could induce under normal (read throttle-off) cornering.



So how about it? Anybody running a Power-Lok or equivalent now that could give me some real-world feedback?



Jason



PS They're debating now whether to release an Electrac for the D80-they do make a Truetrac now so I would say that odds are good-if you're interested probably wouldn't hurt to drop Tractech an e-mail expressing that interest
 
I don't know if there will be any advantage of running a locking differential in the front on snow or ice. I think with the weight of the Cummins should provide plenty of traction in the front. Generally you don't want locking differentials on snow or ice since it will make your vehicle real squirrely.



If you want to use a reverse rotation Dana 60, it may need to be custom built considering the these axles came on Ford trucks with leaf springs instead of coil springs. I don't see a real advantage of the RR D60 unless you're planning on taking this truck offroad.



I'm running ARB lockers in my Toyota and have been very happy with it. I'm in the process of getting some RR D60 axles (front and rear) built right now for my next off road project. I'll run a detroit locker in the front and put a spool in the rear. All axles will be 35 spline. I'll still keep the Ford 30 spline outer stub axle in the front since this will end up being the "fuse" that will break.



A great place to ask would be www.pirate4x4.com they have a bunch of hard core off roaders there...



I hope this helps. .

Charles
 
Dynatrac makes what you are talking about. Believe the reverse cut D60 is their stage IV kit. Large $. Go to Fritz's site for more info or the Dyanatrac website.
 
Dynatrac scares me!

At least their price does! :eek: This baby'll be a custom job when it gets to that point----I have access (or hope I still do anyway) to a lathe, mill, press and someone smart enough to use all of it. :D I know it's gonna be a bear of a project-remember I did say it would be in the future... . ;)



If I wasn't so finicky I'd just go with their Stage 3 kit to replace inner and outer axles with 35 spline stuff and trade the hubs for drive flanges. But you still have a 2 piece right side tube and the standard rotation gearing-if you're gonna spend the bucks you may as well get exactly what you want right?



My job requires me to grind into places where normal people refuse to go (not counting hard-core offroaders ;) )-through mud in the summer and snow in the winter. That's why I want at least the option to lock the front diff up-the rear will be done too at the same time (know anyone who makes higher strength D80 shafts? Maybe Moser... )



I know even a limited slip up front is supposed to be a no-no on ice-but like I was saying earlier I figure all that weight will plant the tires hard enough to make the diff actually slip like it's supposed to. And you still have the locker for the ugly stuff... .



The final part of this equation (which I'm researching as we speak!) is a 242 transfer case in one of its flavors-probably the HD-AMG one. For those who aren't familiar with it it offers the selection of a full-time 4x4 position in addition to the other standard positions. My Cherokee has it-it's the thing I miss most in my Ram. With it in full-time position and LSD's front and rear can you say foul weather traction? I used to run my Cherokee in 4-Full if I even suspected there might be a slippery patch on the road... . That's where the drive plates instead of hubs fall into play-the 242 has no synchronizers to accelerate the front driveshaft up to speed-it relies on the shaft being spinning at close to the right speed and uses a spring-loaded shift fork-when you pull it into 4x4 it loads the sliding collar towards the hub hard enough that as soon as the splines line up it pops into place. .



Back to the front TAD-if someone would release an electric-actuated locker only (just like an ARB) my problems would be solved. But it looks like this Electrac is gonna be the closest I get for a while-maybe by the time I'm actually ready to do this someone will have stepped up to the plate.



Thanks for the info guys-keep it coming!



Jason
 
A possible less expensive "quick fix" for you might be to install a slip clutch so you can have full time 4x4. There was a write-up in the TDR about this. I forget all the details, but it is possible. Sorry, but I forget what issue it was.



Just a thought,

Ryan
 
Know what you're talking about....

I think MileMarker makes that deal that goes in your front driveline to allow slippage. I don't think it's for me though-I want to be able to lock everything solid when I do get buried :D



Remember I'm fussy! Thanks for the tip though Ryan



Jason
 
A couple of things to think about that may not affect your decision

at all. The amboid gears for a Dana 60 don't go as low as the

hypoid, 5. 13 vs. 7. 17. The strength issue for the ring and pinion

is not much of an issue, I have broken several stub axles (1. 31) and 3 or 4 inside shafts (1. 50) and never damaged a ring and pinion. If you are going to run wide wheels the leverage on the steering will make it nearly impossible to steer with a locker in the front. I used to run a Detroit in the front and I now run a Powr-Lok, steering is nice the Powr-Lok is some what tuneable in the way it is set up so that it helps traction but still lets you steer. On the snow and ice anything other than an open in the front can lead to the ditch, but some kind of a TAD can help you out of the ditch. My observations come from the exreme end of usage for a Dana 60 front axle, I run 7. 17 gears with a Powr-Lok and 18. 4x16. 1 v-treads on 15 inch wide wheels so like I said these things may not be an issue with you.
 
If you are looking for a selectable locker, like I am, for the front axle, I wouldn't go with electric either. Too much corrosion with salt and getting ripped off in deep snow would leave you stuck. I looked into a McNamara locker. They are from Austrailia and I was told they do have cable lockers for the Dana 60 and Dana 70. However, I was quoted $1500 for one. A little too pricey for me. I'm with you with on the air locker. Had too many bad air leak experiences driving...
 
Wow Speedo that is one bad buggy! Enough snow up there this year to use it? Ours is pretty much all gone now-chinook rolled in last weekend and has stuck around ever since-from Sunday night through to sometime last night the mercury stayed above freezing :eek: . Gotta love life in Alberta.....



So the fancy name for the reverse-rotation cut is amboid eh? Learned something new today! :p 4. 10 would be as low as I go-just to match up with the gearing already there..... You sound like a candidate for at least stub shaft upgrades eh? Poking around Pirate 4x4 (thanks for the link Charles!) revealed a relatively cheap way to get the 1. 5" 35 spline outers in place-filed that away for future reference... ;) You know if they'd have supplied us with 35 spline inners to start with I probably wouldn't be so worked up about this project... . but if I'm gonna spend the $$$ on a TAD I ain't hookin' it to weenie shafts!



I think maybe once upon a time Matt I'd heard something about those McNamara lockers... . but $1500 US is probably right around our GDP in Canadian money! :eek: Somewhere in my Jeep stuff I have a link for an Australian or New-Zealand built LSD that is selectable into a locker. Could be either cable or air-ram driven-the actuation lever actually comes out sideways (I think a sliding sleeve inside the axle tube actually?). It wasn't cheap either. If I had to make a choice between electric and air I'd definitely go with electric-but I agree with you that mechanical is the most reliable of all.



Keep the good info coming folks! Thanks to all that have chimed in so far.



Jason
 
JHansen, this has been one strange winter here

since Christmas it has been at or above freezing

Sunday I saw it get up to 53 degrees on my overhead in the truck. I've thought about upgrading to 35 spline stub axles but I kind of like having a weak link where it is easier to repair. I have broken the inner axles even with the smaller stubs so unless I can come up with a larger inner I think I'll just stick with the smaller stub axles. Something that I've seen that is kind of interesting is that when I've broken the stub axle on the short side it is always a clean break and when I break one on the long side

it is always a lengthwise ugly break.
 
I blew a stock 30 spline Chevy stub last summer. I bought the new 35 spline stubs, and when I went to put them in I discovered that the spindle was trashed, along with both nuts and at least the outer bearing. It was on the short side, and was a real ugly break. I also noticed the other stub was starting to twist the splines. Wish I'd done the 35 spline outers the first time around.



Pete
 
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