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Fuel Injector Summary

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so I just installed my id injectors and they are 007. I did talk to Andrew the owner of id. he told me that they put 143 nozzles on the 007 cause the 238s were on backorder and he says his bosch supplier assured him they are modified to work in the 04.5 to 07 trucks. but he did offer to swap out for the 238s if I want to since he says they now have them in stock. That being said I hope martin would answer if I will be okay if I keep these in my truck or is there still a chance of a problem?

The 007 injectors have a 143 degree spray angle anyways but not the 124 degree like the 238s. But I would not really worry about the spray angle as you definitley can use 143degree injectors with MY4.5 pistons. The other facts are what should make you worry about using them.
And Bosch does not modify injectors for someone.
 
So I got around to pulling the valve cover the other day and low and behold, I have a set of 007's. I armed myself with the Product Detail Sheets direct from Bosch's site (thank you Martin). I pulled the sheet for the 007 injector and the sheet for the injector by inputting my truck's information, which yielded the 238 part number. Not satisfied with Bosch's webpage, only because web pages can sometimes not be 100% up to date, I called Bosch direct. To my surprise, a human being answered the phone and the nice lady took my name and info and said a technician would call me back to discuss things. Damned if 15 minutes later a Bosch rep called me and confirmed that the 007 injector is not sped'd for a Dodge flavored Cummins, but for a Case/International Harvester flavored Cummins. He spent 20 minutes digging and searching to be sure. At that point I asked if Brand NEW VIRGIN BOSCH Injectors for my application even exist? He said yes and said they are showing as in stock in his system. That gave me hope because now at least I know such a thing exists.

I proceeded to call ID at that point and spoke with Burton, nice guy, and just went over things with him. He provided some information and basically said that the 007's are the functional equivalents of the 238's because of the nozzle change (which I kinda took to mean these were modified with a different nozzle than they originally had?). I asked if I could email him some info I had sourced directly from Bosch, for him to review. I wanted him to understand this wasn't some internet rumor and I thought the injectors were being spec'd for the wrong application. I sent him the info I had and asked that he get back to me with his thoughts.

To my surprise, 2 hours later he called me on my cell. I thought that was pretty strong move on his end, he didn't hide behind an email or a text message. Apparently, at some point supplies of the 238's were out, and this alternative solution came into play (at whose direction or suggestion??). ID did stand by their position that the two injectors are functional equivalents, but and this is a big BUT, they did offer me two options (and I didn't even have to ask for options):

First option was that they would extend my warranty on the injectors to 4 years. This didn't really have much value to me, because if there was a problem I think it would difficult to prove cause and effect (chicken or the egg syndrome), especially on a 15 year old truck with over 200,000 miles.

Second option was that they would swap out my injectors for BRAND NEW VIRGIN 238's (they were now back in stock). This is the option I went with today and have a set headed to me right now.

Now keep in mind, my injectors have 8,000+ miles on them, so its not like a new for new return.....They (ID) are taking back 4 month old injectors with 8,000 miles on them and giving me a set of BRAND NEW VIRGIN 238's. I think that's about as best an outcome I could ask for. I think there could have been more clarity up front with the 007's for sure. But when I asked (not even pressed all that hard) about the situation, they gave me reasonable options and I'm going to end up exactly where I originally wanted to end up, with a set of BRAND NEW VIRGIN Bosch injectors for my otherwise stock 2004.5 Dodge flavored Cummins.

I'm not crazy about doing the job a second time, but I have all new rocker assemblies to install anyway (noticed a couple galled trunions when installing the injectors in November) so I'll do it all at once and now that I know the tricks, it should go a little quicker.

I'll follow up with pics of the 238's when they arrive.
Thank you to all those whose shared information.

2019-03-05 15.33.34 (640x480).jpg
 
CCiatteo - That is some great phone work! Thanks for getting facts into and out of Bosch and Injectors Direct - and kudos to both companies for using responsive human beings - rare! And continuing thanks to Martin for his information. Now I have to decide what to do...
 
Cool... that is really great new for you... so get them replaced and all is good.
Again, there is a lot more different than just the nozzle.

If you want you can take a picture of the nozzle showing the number on it and I can tell you what nozzle was installed
 
great news about ID. good to know they will do whats right without any hassle.It's also important to remember that if not for Martin,Cerberusiam,and all the others that got involved in this discussion the outcome could have been very different. thanks to all in this discussion I got alot of useful info out of it.
 
Well my 007's are on their way back to Injectors Dir. And thanks to all of you stressing filtering I installed my Glacier Diesel 2-micron kit this weekend and fired it up with the old injectors.

Now a question for Cerb and Martin. How well will the BBI stage .5's run with no tuning? i.e. just what the factory already programmed? Cerb I take it you always run a tuner so maybe you haven't run any this way? Martin, have you run many without tuning? You seemed to imply that you had but wasn't quite sure.
 
I have run both the old BMS50 (the factory marine injector injector) and the Stage I's with stock tuning, no problems the right foot could not control. The Stage .5's should be pretty close to the small marine injector IIRC, they were not an issue at all. Obviously tuning will make any of them run better but it is not necessarily needed to have a good running engine. I have not tried the Stage .5's with the 143 pattern but from everything I have heard from those that have it should be the one to run for a towing injector.
 
Following up on this saga. My Virgin OEM 238's arrived Friday (from California to New Jersey) to my surprise. I did the swap today and everything went smooth, no problems to report. I decided to not do the rocker arms just yet, as I wanted to only make one change at a time, just in case. The injectors arrived from ID and were clearly labeled as NEW OEM, which I don't recall seeing the first time, but I could be misremembering? They were all the latest and greatest part number as promised.

Martin, I didn't take pictures of the "old" 007 injectors, but the number on the nozzle was 1659, if that means anything to you. The number on the injector body was the complete part number from the 007 spec sheet on Bosch's site.

I ran truck up and down the highway after install, and once she cleared herself out from the work being done, she ran great, pulled hard up ramps, good boost, good egt's, no smoke, only slightest bit of haze on hard acceleration, but cleared really quick. Only noticeable difference that I can say for sure, injectors "seem" quieter at highway speed and under hard acceleration, this could by psychosomatic though, but there just seems to be less "chatter" under those conditions. Hopefully these go for another 200,000 and then maybe upgrade to a newer truck.

Final outcome, I am happy and have the correct injectors for my application. "Old" 007's will go back to ID tomorrow and that will bring this to closure for me. Thank you to Injectors Direct for addressing this issue and getting things taken care of, without any drama, much appreciated.

Again, thanks to everyone on the board for the info and the time. I apologize for the lack of pictures on the new injectors and the nozzle pics, I was just focused on getting the job done in the beautiful weather I had today here in NJ. FWIW, the job went much faster the second time once I knew all the tricks, and I did all the cylinders at the same time, instead of working one cylinder at a time, same loads of time on the torque sequence and having to constantly reset the torque wrenches.

Chris
 
Well my 007's are on their way back to Injectors Dir. And thanks to all of you stressing filtering I installed my Glacier Diesel 2-micron kit this weekend and fired it up with the old injectors.

Now a question for Cerb and Martin. How well will the BBI stage .5's run with no tuning? i.e. just what the factory already programmed? Cerb I take it you always run a tuner so maybe you haven't run any this way? Martin, have you run many without tuning? You seemed to imply that you had but wasn't quite sure.

Yes you can definitely use the Stage 0.5s with stock tuning and they will work great doing so.


Martin, I didn't take pictures of the "old" 007 injectors, but the number on the nozzle was 1659, if that means anything to you. The number on the injector body was the complete part number from the 007 spec sheet on Bosch's site.

Chris

Chris, thank you for posting the number, so they really have installed a MY4.5 nozzle on those 007 injectors.
It is not the same nozzle as on the 238 injector but the nozzle that is used on the earlier injectors 0445120103 and 0445120114. Full nozzle number is DLLA124P1659
It is already a nozzle that has the DLC coating on it.
 
For some odd reason odd reason My posts are reported as advertising, I can only speculate Why/Who so you are welcome to PM Me or look up my phone # I take calls from 7am to 10pm.

I also read in this thread that cross-breading is alive and still practiced. I find it odd that some who claim to experts obviously are lacking knowledge or just simply script reading.
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I kept this in mind......
 
I mentioned that we manufactured X part because we found China made units in Bosch Box's. and it was costing Buyers $1000S IN DESTROYED INJECTORS.

What a loooooooong stretch to call that advertising.

I support the forum rules or I would simply not participate.....
 
quick update,been REALLY busy at work and finaly got my BBI injectors fron dudes diesel performance.truck idels better than ever.so smooth i cant belive its the same truck. havent got any mile on it yet ,just went down the road and back. headed back to work tomorrow and realy looking forward to having my truck back. thanks to martin for all the help and advice on injector selection( that realy is him on the live chat on thier website) and clayton from dudes diesel,great service and super friendly folks to do buisness with.
 
I mentioned that we manufactured X part because we found China made units in Bosch Box's. and it was costing Buyers $1000S IN DESTROYED INJECTORS.

What a loooooooong stretch to call that advertising.

I support the forum rules or I would simply not participate.....

Cant believe that this should be advertising - and i can't believe that Rob Patton would call this advertising.
We all love the input that comes from your side and truly would miss it.
 
Well I am in the middle of the injector replacement. So far so good. Was wondering if anyone knew what, I assume, is the spray on corrosion protectant covering all of the external fuel system parts and intake plate? As soon as I hit the joints with carb cleaner this stuff bubbled up and flaked off. Sure makes for a mess of debris that could contaminate a fuel system. How bad is it that I have removed it and is it worth replacing? With what? Before and after clean up pics below:
Intake 2.jpg
Intake 1.jpg
 
It will rust.. just finish the Install Check for leaks, drive to Auto/hardware Store Buy the Rust-o-elum clear Gloss Several coats will do the Job. Or remove it and tape the plemun side up and coat it several times.

I would finish the Job and coat the lines wires everything, Use Dia-electric on all connections and Make darn sure you don't plug the Pressure sensor in backwards.

 
Thats the clear coat paint that Cummins applies for the RAM Engines, instead of the classic Red paint.
Dont know why they did that, I'd love to have my Engine in Red.
 
Thanks TC and Ozy. Factory red would have been great - I might just go for the clear though, harder to see the screw ups. Four down two to go...only the fun ones left.
 
Just wanted to follow up on this in case any one searches injectorsdirect.com in the future (I know I did before my purchase).

ID swapped my 007 injectors for the 238's at no charge (I didn't install the 007's so they were still new). I had to pay shipping to them, but ID agreed to refund me the full $600 for my cores even though I was outside of the 30 day return window. ID was extremely fast and courteous returning emails even outside of normal business hours.

I installed the new 238's and I couldn't believe how quiet and smooth my truck is. You don't really realize how rough your truck runs until you freshen up the injectors (mine had 300,000km's on them). All in all, I am satisfied with my purchase.
 
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