Funky Starting after injector install

[Joe Mc]

What'd they charge for going over it? Or did you flat out buy a new one?

 

[DavidC]

I do not even know if they checked it, just sent a new one and the full price for a new one. This time I just bought a new one and the old is under the Drivers seat. I was towing when it started it's missing at/above 65 and 25 boost. Did not notice anything going slower. I may just plug it back in and see how it does without all that weight on the back.

 

[Joe Mc]

DavidC, thanks. As I’m understanding what you did = you sent in Edge for them to check and it cost you full amount of a new unit, so all they apparently did was send you a new unit, based on what you received? So it makes sense for me, if I decide to think the Edge is part if not all of the problem(s), to just outright buy a new unit.
Looking on the Edge site for the Edge Comp #30300-D they’re $562.46.
https://edgeproducts.com/shop/1998-5-2000-dodge-24-v-comp-5-9l

 

[DavidC]

Yes Joe, I believe that's what happened. I kind of have a spare now so any weird things that may happen I can swap boxes to verify or rule out the existing box. I am kind of dismayed being on my fourth box in 21 years tho.

 

[Joe Mc]

Guess I'm fortunate to have had same box for ??? I think 03 ?. Whether what's going on for me is or isn't related to the box. Wow, 4 in 21 years. Buddy of mine had an 01 dually, he picked it up from Texas before I got my 99 in 5/01. Just realized he got his when it was almost new! Anyhow, he went thru 2 boxes while he had it. He sold it about 8 years ago.

I'm done till after new year's day. Merry Christmas to all.

 

[AH64ID]

I am kind of dismayed being on my fourth box in 21 years tho.

That's likely the biggest complaint about their products, they just don't last.

Programmers don't have this issue, since they use the OEM hardware and don't have to modify the signal. There are limitations on VP trucks with programmers, but they are more reliable.

 

[DavidC]

That's likely the biggest complaint about their products, they just don't last.

Programmers don't have this issue, since they use the OEM hardware and don't have to modify the signal. There are limitations on VP trucks with programmers, but they are more reliable.

I was told when I was checking into a smarty that my OLD ecm could be on it's last legs and using a smarty could do it in. That statement scares me. So I understand the smarty only boosts the hp something like 60-65 and I do not know if that amount would equal the comp on level 4 sub 5 which is my preferred tow setting.

 

[Joe Mc]

Hey all, hope everyone is enjoying the holidays. My Daughter and Son-in-Law are in town and using the 50+/- mpg mobile so I've been using the truck as my "daily". Yesterday I went to meet a friend for breakfast, it was like 21F. Truck started fine, let it warm up for a few minutes, tapped the throttle just a tad before going into "D" so it didn't die on me and off I go. As I headed out the driveway gingerly increasing speed (limit in section is 25) I was quickly reminded of the shifting issue I have when temps are under 45-50F, until the trans starts to get warmed up a bit - see older thread https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/odd-shifting.267857/ .

Briefly as possible:
- Only happens when temps are 45-50 or below and only until I've driven it a few miles or so.
- If I don't start out in L, then at about 20mph or so bump to 2nd (I.E. if I forget and leave in drive) at about 10mph the trans will abruptly (in about 4-5 seconds) step up-shift right into OD and I'll have to pop in N, then go into L.
- When I forget and it does this step up-shift it's as if you're driving a stick and trying to shift from 1st right into high gear, bucks like crazy, have to quickly put in N.

So, this reminder makes me wonder if what April and Don mentioned in one of their replies, "we've also seen the 'stalling' when going from P or N into a forward or reward gear when a torque converter is too tight", may have something to do with the stalling. However, it still doesn't explain the intermittent (perhaps 1 in 6-10 start-ups) "rump, rump, rump" at startup and die if I don't goose the pedal a few times then it settles out and idles fine.

Your Thoughts???

So I'm guessing, after I close on new place and get sort of settled in (hopefully Early Spring), I'll see if Tim (TRE Performance Va Beach, VA) who built trans back in like 03 or so??? can get me in to do some exploring/figuring to pinpoint weird shift when cold deal. At this point I've got several things that I don't care a little bit for going on and want to take care of everything ASAP. Hell if it is the torque converter causing the stall when in N or P and going into any gear and the cold step up-shifitng then I'll have Tim install a new one and at least that'll be taken care of.

Thanks, still stuck on what the heck causes the stall and intermittent rump, rump, rump start-up....

 

[DavidC]

Your running the DTT 89% like mine ?. Mine will toggle between 1st and 2nd at the shifting point if held there, I either put it in 1st or give a little more throttle to put it solidly into 2nd. Maybe the trans temp sensor is funky when cold ?, I believe I read it is internal to the transducer. I would maybe start there as you know how reliable that friggin thing is.

 

[Joe Mc]

When the 45-50° or lower step shifting began years back I checkef FSM for anything related to trans temp, indeed temp sensor is in transducer. I called Tim and he recommended getting new from Transtar I did and no change. Perhaps pump psi is lower than it should be and??? Need to just give to the expert, Tim, and let him do "whatever" needs to be done. He'll most likely be able to figure out other s_ _ t too. Just have to be patient and get closed on and move to new place. Hard to be patient when this stupid s is going on...you know...

 

[Joe Mc]

DavidC, not sure what 89% means? I do remember mentioning that to Tim before bringing truck to him for rebuild and he told me that's a little older technology and didn't apply anymore? This was in like 03.

 

[DavidC]

I do not know all the specifics but I believe the 89 was referenced to the stall speed. If it's older technology they should be able to explain it very well.

 

[Joe Mc]

Hey all, here's the plan to hopefully resolve the issues = 1- Odd shifting when cold and 2- this Thread's subject.

Taking truck to Trans Builder = Tim Barber, TRE Diesel Performance next week.
-Going to have him go over trans check all, adjust bands check and set pressures, replace whatever needs to be replaced.
-Just got off the phone with April at Fluxdiesel (f.k.a. F1 Injection) they're building me a new set of Mach5s which will be shipped to Tim and arrive early next week.
*** Now hear this *** I asked April if there's any financials we need to take care of, can she email an invoice and I can pay with card? Reply, "Oh no Joe everything is all set. We're building the injectors and they will eb shipped to Tim next week after he installs he'll return to us. You're all Good". WOW I'm impressed but not totally surprised they've always been great to deal with and strong customer support and "Stand behind what they build". Still, WOW!!!
-I'm not leaving anything out of the equation (I think) giving Tim the new tubes, all new injector and tube seals as well as intake horne/grid heater gaskets.


Can't wait to get my truck back and it's not even gone yet - LMAO

Oh, renting a tow dolly and will pull the 50+MPG mobile (2011 Prius - gay) down so I have a ride back.

 

[Joe Mc]

Got Truck down to Tim's yesterday. 6 hours towing the Prius on a dolly and 6 hours driving back home. Talk about a long day. No one has worked on my truck since Tim built the trans back in around 03, outside of myself, front end alignment shop, tire installation shop and paint/metal shop = reason I drove 12 hours in 1 day. He should have injectors from F1 this week. Go thru trans and give everything a good going over. Hope to get it back next week. Might take a train down vs. repeating the trip yesterday.

 

[Joe Mc]

Spoke with April @ FDI (formerly known as F1 Injection) yesterday about the "new" Mach 5's they're building to replace the old (100k+ miles) Mach 5's they rebuilt for me (which were opened to Mach 6's, only a 20hp bump) less than 1,000 miles ago. She said they're "on the board to ship (to Tim) this week" and he should have them no later than Friday.

Can't mention enough the way I've been treated over the years by the fine folks (Don & April) at FDI and must ask anyone who's thinking about upgrading their injectors to 1. Consider FDI and 2. See *** Now Hear This *** in my post #53 above.

I wish to add, for clarity if there's any doubt in anyone who reads this post's mind:
There is/was nothing wrong with the refreshed/rebuilt Mach 5's that FDI did for me, their summation for the issues I've had/that started immediately after installation are -> "the torque converter 'could be' too tight for the injectors and it just doesn't like them". Best way to rule out/determine the bigger injectors is what's causing what you're going thru is to "build" you a new set of 5's. And, as mentioned before, "No charge for 'new 5's' beyond the $600 I paid to have my old 5's rebuilt".

Thanks for reading. More to come...

 

[DavidC]

Update ?

 

[Joe Mc]

Injectors and new tubes installed no more rump, rump on start up. Tim said he didn't see anything I did wrong installing, checked valve lash 2 were a little loose. Still almost stalls when going in gear and sometimes does. Ordered new triple lock torque converter was supposed to come in Friday, will check rest of trans when he pulls it out today. Fingers crossed. Thanks

 

[NIsaacs]

Still almost stalls when going in gear and sometimes does.

I don't think this is the torque converter. On my '01, the slightest engine resistance at idle will cause it to ramp up, instantly. Even letting out the clutch in neutral it will rev up for a second or two then level out again. When I launch the truck, loaded or empty, I don't give it any throttle until the clutch is hooked. It throttles itself.

What controls the rpm during this, I don't know. Maybe the cam position sensor, ECM, or VP? I have been really fortunate with electronics on my rig so my troubleshooting experience is not much.

 

[Joe Mc]

Guess we'll see. Tim hasn't steered me wrong before. I'm relying on his expertise and many years of working and owning his own business in this venue.

 

[Joe Mc]

Trans out all new hard, soft, electronics parts and billet flex plate, input shaft, triple-loc converter, carbon fiber friction materials, latest valve body upgrades, yada, yada. Installed Wednesday - still stalls. Old trans was working but close to the edge and well below factory minimums, it was time anyway. Next up, new VP (3rd counting original) last one was 3/09. Hopefully can get truck week of 3/22. Keep your fingers and toes crossed for my guys and gals....