Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Hard Starting

[TyThompson]

Okay, so the truck in my sig has problems starting in the cold weather. I'm living part time here in golden, co, close to denver, and the after sitting overnight in the cold, I'll cycle the grid heaters twice, then try to start it and it tries to catch, but usually doesn't. So I stop and cycle the grid heaters again, and then it will usually start. The wait to start light stays on for a while, like the grid heaters are working. While cranking there is plenty of smoke, so I'm pretty sure it's not a fuel problem. Is there a way to check the grid heaters? My batteries are about 3 years old, from napa, (in the truck when i bought it) could they just not be giving enough amperage anymore? Even in the summer, this truck doesn't start on the first revolution of the engine, like others do.

Any ideas would be appreciated, my isuzu diesel in my chevy in my sig starts easier without using glow plugs or grid heater.

 

[LandShark]

Best way to check the grid heaters is to watch the voltmeter. It should drop to 8 or 9 volts with the heaters on and then cycle from about 10 to 14 volts once the engine starts.

If you don't see much of a voltage drop, maybe just one heater is bad. There are 2 solenoids, for the grid heaters, below the drivers battery. They have push on connectors, so it's easy to take one out of the loop.

In below 20 degree temps, I always cycled the grid heaters twice prior to starting. Engine seemed to like that and start a bit faster with less smoke.

 

[Joe G.]

Are you using a little pedal to help start?

 

[TyThompson]

Thanks for the replies.
Landshark- Yes, my voltmeter drops a lot, to around 9 volts, and then it continues to cycle for a while after the truck is started. Even after cycling the heaters, it still doesn't want to start. I could've sworn it started easier last winter.
Joe G. - No pedal, a little pedal, or a lot of pedal, doesn't make any difference.

 

[JFaughn]

If you volts are dropping to 9 , then theres your problem , bad batteries or connections , diesels need to turn over fast to start under good conditions .

 

[Joe G.]

You might try to start it instantly without doing the grid heater thing with some pedal and see what happens. If it starts right away, it may bang around a bit before it runs smooth. I have accidentally done that a few times when visting in Utah. My '95 starts right up but complains about it for a little bit.

 

[Fordiesel69]

Thanks for the replies.

Landshark- Yes, my voltmeter drops a lot, to around 9 volts, and then it continues to cycle for a while after the truck is started. Even after cycling the heaters, it still doesn't want to start. I could've sworn it started easier last winter.

Joe G. - No pedal, a little pedal, or a lot of pedal, doesn't make any difference.

Could be retarded timing. Does it smoke and miss bad if you accelerate when cold?

 

[LandShark]

Has the fuel return line been replaced yet? These rubber lines get old and allow air into the system with no outward symtoms, other than hard starts. This is a well known problem with our 2nd gens.

 

[TyThompson]

Thanks for the replies.
JFaughn- Yeah, I'm still curious about that, because they go back up to around 13 when the grid heaters go off and I try to start it. Maybe it's just the three year old batteries not spinning it fast enough?
Joe G. - Well, without using the grid heaters, just trying to start it, it just cranks over, without even trying to fire, except maybe slightly every so often.
Forddiesel69- I set my timing at 16* not too long ago, but maybe it slipped? It doesn't really run rough at all once it starts.
LandShark- I replaced the return line when I had the head off replacing the headgasket about 6 months ago.
Which brings me to another question... I put in a . 010 over headgasket, could that be affecting my cold starting capabilities this much?
Also, the first few times I noticed the hard starting, it also did something it hasn't done before, after it finally did start it ran for a few seconds then tried to die, but i gave it some more pedal and saved it once, and the other time I didn't catch it soon enough and it died. Could this be air in the system? It hasn't done it since.
It also seems like last time I started it, after I let it warm up a few minutes, and i was kinda idling out of the parking lot and it was puffing black smoke, until it warmed up more. Could there be something sticking in my pump? I've always been able to lay an extra thick cloud of smoke if I'm not careful when it's still cold.
Thanks for all the help.

 

[Fordiesel69]

I am no expert but 16 degrees with a 0. 10 headgasket should not be too over advanced. When I had my old 6. 9L ford too advanced it would start real hard, but the rattle was so loud you could tell it was over advanced.



The fact that you said it wanted to die out, indicated air in fuel or poor lift pump pressure / volume.

 

[Joe G.]

A quick test would be to pull the plug for the full heater, grease it up real good, and put it back it. If that has some affect your fuel heater is burned up. Take it out and throw it away. Email me at -- email address removed -- for my write up about the fuel supply system, how it works and how to fix it.

 

[MMcCallie]

I live a couple hours northeast of you in Greeley, CO and had the same problem a few weeks ago. Bought B100 at Shoco Oil in Commerce City. Took me a good hour and a half of manually priming to to get the truck to stay running one single digit day. Part of the problem was that i only had 1/4 tank of fuel. Once i got it running i filled up on B20 and haven't had the problem since.

I'm certain my fuel had frozen. If you're not already, run some diesel additive. I've also installed an electric heater jacket around the fuel filter and it works very well. Definitely check the fuel heater as Joe G suggested, i don't use mine. Timing is another probablity but you might be able to notice during regular driving if that is the problem. My voltage drops very low but i run my grid heaters manually with a momentary switch, only on while i'm holding the button.

 

[tgordon]

You never mentioned, does it seem to be turning over as fast as before? On my truck the starter was filled with black "crud". Sorry for the technical term. I replaced the starter and it would then spin into orbit again and wounderfully.

 

[TyThompson]

Fordiesel69- I guess a good thing to do would be to stick a fuel pressure gauge on and see what pressures I'm running. I'm still perplexed as to why when it finally starts when it's really cold like that it puts out black smoke instead of white (unburned fuel) like all my other diesels have done and do.
Joe G. - I got to snooping around and found that my fuel heater was unplugged, so I plugged it in, maybe that will help a little... I'll e-mail your for your write-up.
MMcCallie- That's a very tempting idea to put in a momentary switch for the grid heaters. Am I correct in assuming they can't be left on too long and burnt up like glow plugs? Or maybe they can, not that I would want to leave them on very long anyways. I'm back over on the slightly warmer west slope now for about the next month, the semester ended at school of mines where I'm studying petroleum engineering.
tgordon- That is what I am wondering, most of the time it seems to turn over fast enough, but it may be a little slow. The truck has about 125,000 miles on it and it looks like the starter is original. I ordered the contacts awhile back, I guess now would be a good time to pull the starter and replace them, as well as check for the black crud. I checked my batteries several weeks ago with a load tester, and they were alright, but I'm beginning to suspect them also.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

 

[GAmes]

The wait to start light stays on for a while, like the grid heaters are working.

The wait to start light will stay on regardless if the grid heaters are working. I have my relays wired to a toggle switch, and use the wait to start light for toggling off. If you decide to over ride the PCM with a switch, wire up the grounds. The hot side is hot whenever the key is on, the PCM controls the ground side.

 

[LandShark]

Any update on this?

 

[TyThompson]

Sorry I haven't posted any updates, I've been working a lot lately. But I did get a chance to put in some newer batteries, and it really made a difference. I'm not quite sure why, because the voltage seems to read about the same when the grid heater is cycling, etc, but it will now start in about 1-2 seconds now after letting the grid heater cycle once. A lot better than before, when it wouldn't want to start at all. I think the newer batteries may be spinning the starter a little faster, which appears to make a big difference. I'm still planning on pulling the starter and checking it over and replacing the contacts one of these first days when I get time.
Thanks everyone for the tips, I'd still like to check my grid heaters etc when I get some time.