Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Help Please! ATS Manifold install problems!!

[JGheen]

Hey guys,



I need some experienced advice on how to get the ATS manifold bolt holes to line up on the cylinder head. I am doing my manifold swap this weekend and everything was going smoothly until I got the ATS on and I could only get the rear 4 bolts on ports #5 and #6 to go in. The middle section holes are about 1/8" to the left of the head holes and the front section holes are WAY off.

When I put the thing together I thought you were supposed to hammer it until it stops and that should give you the correct hole line-up? Well, that is not the case. To get the flanges all straight the bolting it to the stock manifold trick worked good, When I tightened it down it went right together and lined right up. I could tell that the holes on the ATS were a little off from the stock but I thought I would give it a try and now I am all frustrated cuz I have no idea how I am going to separate the pieces enough to get the holes to line up.

Please help guys, this is my everyday driver and I need to get it done before work on Monday morning. If there are any of you guys near my place here in California, southern to be exact(Santa Clarita, near Magic Mountain) I would buy you a twelve pack if you have the experience with this thing to help me. That goes for anyone else who just verbally can help. I'll send you the money to get a twelver! I really appreciate the help guys, thanks much!



Joe

 

[1dslram]

Use a dead blow hammer available at Harbor Freight if you don't have one. Holding the center section wack the end section with the hammer and it will move a little at a time. After a couple wacks set it down on the driveway or a piece of wood to straighten the unit back out. Measure the studs and transfer that dimension to the smaller holes in the manifold. It may take a while but it is doable, a vise will help make it faster but I have done it in parking lots before and it just takes time. A couple of pieces of 2X4 help to hold the center section while wacking on the lower section to streach the dimension or while wacking the upper section to shorten the dimension. If you were closer we could do it at my house, but you can do it by the time you would get here.

Good Luck

Bruce

Good Luck

Bruce

 

[fox]

Bolt the ATS to the old manifold by putting as many bolts in it as possible. snug them up and then heat the center part of the ATS with a propane torch. Now loosen them and repeat this until they all line up.

 

[JGheen]

Use a dead blow hammer available at Harbor Freight if you don't have one. Holding the center section wack the end section with the hammer and it will move a little at a time. After a couple wacks set it down on the driveway or a piece of wood to straighten the unit back out. Measure the studs and transfer that dimension to the smaller holes in the manifold. It may take a while but it is doable, a vise will help make it faster but I have done it in parking lots before and it just takes time. A couple of pieces of 2X4 help to hold the center section while wacking on the lower section to streach the dimension or while wacking the upper section to shorten the dimension. If you were closer we could do it at my house, but you can do it by the time you would get here.

Good Luck

Bruce

Good Luck

Bruce

Are you busy tomorrow Bruce? I am only about an hour up the I-5 from you. You like beer right, is that enough for you to show me how it's done so that this thing can stop frustrating me? I'll be giving it another try tomorrow since i am burned out on this today. Let me know, thanks



Joe



BTW, what do you mean putting a piece of 2x4 on the center section? Do I bolt it to the 2x4 with some self drilling screws?? Sorry, didn't understand what you meant.

 

[JGheen]

Bolt the ATS to the old manifold by putting as many bolts in it as possible. snug them up and then heat the center part of the ATS with a propane torch. Now loosen them and repeat this until they all line up.

I was thinking the same thing, just continuously bolting it back up to the stocker and seeing what happens. I need to get some bigger diameter bolts though, so they can fill up the gap on some of the larger holes one both manifolds. Any idea what is the biggest bolt that can go through those larger holes?

 

[Lsfarm]

Hammer and a 2x4

Joe, just remove the manifold from the engine, put it on the ground or a work bench, hopefully on a piece of wood to keep from scratching it up, and use a piece of 2x4 about 12-16" long to protect the manifold from your hammer. Put the 2x4 end against the #5 exhaust flange/port and use your big hammer on the other end and drive the #5/6 section of the ATS back off the slip section. Since you drove the rear section all the way in till it stopped, just back it out some. The manifold may 'kink' or slide back unevenly but you can straighten it against the stock manifold. Just drive the rear section back, straighten, drive back more if needed etc. Not rocket science, just adjust it to fit.



Then once you get the rear and center sections to fit the bolt holes, then make sure you check the front section for fit before you start reinstalling the manifold. You probably will have to do some adjusting on the front section as well. Install ALL the bolts in all the flanges before you start tightening ANY of them.



This should help. Doing the work BEFORE applying the 12-pack to the problem usually helps too. LOL



Greg L

 

[RT66DOC]

Does anybody know of a good reason why ATS would not assemble the three pieces using a jig before shipping to customers??? The manifold could be bolted to a piece of wood to prevent moving around in transit. Maybe they have a huge inventory of short fat shipping boxes and want to use them up before ordering long skinny ones. Or maybe they have a hard time assembling them too. What am I missing here?

 

[JGheen]

I agree, RT66DOC,



This is such a PITA!!!! I am trying the 2x4 method right now and have only been able to line up the rear section and the middle section. The front is giving me some trouble and I am running out of 2x4s cuz I am hammering the crap out of them and they are splitting in 2.

I haven't tried my most recent hammering fit yet, taking a break right now before I really start to pull my hair out!!!

Lsfarm, I will give your method a try now since it seems it might work. I was trying that somewhat but was wondering how I am going to get the thing straight again. The damn holes are so close it is't even funny, I feel like drilling the smaller holes out to just make it easy, but not going to do that to my $400 manifold. Just extremely frustrated.

ATS really needs to have this piece put together for the customer AND if this thing doesn't give me a good noticeable performance increase after all this work, I recommend just sticking with the stocker. Just about ready to throw the ATS in the trash and put the stocker back on!

Anyway, will keep you guys updated here when it finally lines up. Going back at it... ... .

 

[Mad Bomber]

Ats

A REAL PITA. I also mounted the old manifold to the new one. Maybe starting in the back 1st might help.

 

[RT66DOC]

My stock manifold is showing signs of shrinking - #1 pulling toward the rear. I have always figured that if/when this happened I'd put on the ATS but now maybe I'll have to reconsider. I wouldn't have the patience to fight with a pricey aftermarket piece. And what if one does bolt the ATS up to the old shrunk manifold for alignment? A new shrunk manifold? Does anybody other than ATS make a manifold for these trucks? Hey, I got eight years and 110k miles out of the stocker. Nothing wrong with that.



OK, rant over. I've always heard great things about the ATS guys and their products. I just don't understand why THEY can't put it together.

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

i have put 3 or 4 of these together and it only takes about 10min. like the others have said bolt the middle section to your old manifold. stand it up on your concrete floor and put in one of the outer sections. then beat on the very end of it with a dead blow hammer until those holes line up. then just flip it over and repeat.



jim

 

[JGheen]

Man, you guys make it sound so easy! This thing is a POS and a real PITA!!! I can't believe how much I have heated it, wacked it with the dead blow and 2x4s and I am about out of 2x4s since they are splitting in 2 everytime I get a good smack on the middle section. I keep bolting up the thing to the stocker, but I only bolt up the front section which is the seciton I want to move and the hit the middle section back since it isn't bolted down to the stocker and it worked well for the rear section but now this front section just won't move. I have been at this for a day and a half now and about to give up.

I am probably going to go back to the stocker cuz how much gains does this POS ATS give me over the stock piece? My stock piece wasn't even warped at all, it's still nice and straight. This is just too much work for a little better airflow. I had now idea it was this hard. Gonna try one more time and then giving up.

Those of you who keep chiming in and saying how easy it is and that it only took you like ten minutes, why don't you come over and show me how its done so I can get this thing back on the road. I am doing everything I can and it is not budging. ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

 

[RonA]

The one I got was real tight on one side. I put the outer pieces in the freezer and heated the center. One side went together easy. The other wouldn't fit. I took it all back apart and ckecked the bore size with a dial bore gauge and then checked the od of the outer sections. The od was larger than the hole. Long story short, You are not inept or doing it wrong. Probably ATS did not get the machining right. I had to polish it with emery cloth and then use either powdered graphite or moly powder to lube the joint before I put it together. If you can't get it to fit, put your old one back on and send the ATS to me. I will check it for you and put it together if you will pay the shipping both ways. I'm a little too far for you to drive( between Marysville and Grass Valley). I was told that a stock ATS makes no performance gain. That is why people have them ported. Dave miller did mine.

RonA

 

[JGheen]

Ron,

Grass Valley isn't that far from me. I work with people that live there. How do I get to your place from Santa Clarita? What tools would you use to get the thing apart? I would definately be willing to drive out there if you can get the job done. Do you have a junk head or a tempplate that we could use or would I have to bring the truck out there with me?

I had no trouble getting it together. I too froze the outer pieces and heated up the middle to get them to go in easy and they did. Not like butter or anything, but a few wacks from the dead blow and they went right in. I just thought that when the pieces stop moving in they shoud align with the head holes, but NOT!

I was able to get the front piece to move out a little bit but I had to heat the crap out of it and I have to wait for it to cool before I can test fit. I bet it still needs to go out some more though, cuz the last time I test fitted it, that front section still needed to come towards the front of the engine about 1/4" at least for the holes to line up.

I swear this thing sucks! I broke a dead blow hammer earlier this morning that I forgot to mention. Ran out and got another from the Depot, but should have picked up some more 2x4s seeing as I am gonna need them now with all this kindling in my garage!

Anyway, sorry for all this *****ing guys, just wish it went a smooth as removing the stocker. I thought I was going to break a bolt off when removing the stocker since it had been on there for 150,000+ miles. Penetrating oil sure is a wonderful thing, too bad it can't help with my current alignment issue.

My neighbor told me good luck and the force be with you..... sure would be nice to get 'ol Yoda out here and have him use the force to separate the damn thing so it can align! :-laf

 

[Mundgyver]

When I put my ATS on, I threw the ends into the freezer before I started the project. I then pulled the old manifold and got everything set up for the install. Took about an hour to get ready. Took the center section and bolted it to the old manifold and then heated it up with a torch. One end section was then removed from the freezer and slipped right on and lined right up. No need of a hammer required. Repeated the other end the same way. Bolted right up to the head.

 

[JGheen]

When I put my ATS on, I threw the ends into the freezer before I started the project. I then pulled the old manifold and got everything set up for the install. Took about an hour to get ready. Took the center section and bolted it to the old manifold and then heated it up with a torch. One end section was then removed from the freezer and slipped right on and lined right up. No need of a hammer required. Repeated the other end the same way. Bolted right up to the head.

Pretty much did the same thing as well. Must be nice to have everything go your way.

 

[JGheen]

Got It!!

WOOOO HOOOO!! Got it to line up!!



Man, what a PITA and stress factor!! A friend brought over some 4x4 pieces of wood and those worked 100% better than 2x4s to get it to separate just enough to line up the front 4 holes. Now its time to get it all back together tonite. Will post my performance feelings on it in the morning after my ride to work.



Thanks for all youz guyz help! Sorry I was *****ing half the time but man was it ever just a pain to get this done. I think I am gonna call ATS tomorrow and tell them they might sell a lot more of these pieces if they were assembled upon shipment. :-laf

 

[SEmerson]

The problem I see with preassembling them is some people need them upside down for twins.

 

[RT66DOC]

The problem I see with preassembling them is some people need them upside down for twins.

Undoubtedly the minority. Those folks could specify unassembled when they order.

 

[Howard Durand]

This is a suggestion with absolutely no experience to back it up but I do know that propane gas coming from a bottle is very cold. Could you, in some way, use it to supercool the end section you are trying to move?

Obviously, it would have to be done safely in a well veltilated area where the gas would be dilduted and carried away.