Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) High Altitude Bombing - Performance Balancing Act.

[MD500E]

I would first go with a set of DDII's. Your EZ and the DDII's should be a great all around setup with minimal smoke. Then down the road a when you want a bit more power add a comp. Then you will have control over how much it smokes. With the comp I would run at least a PDR HX-35.

The 40 is a great turbo but it takes a bit more fuel to spool than the 35 and that makes for more smoke especially at higher altitude.

 

[KWIKKURT]

JJohn, I have a version of the KSB-1 Bomber turbo that is great for high altitude. "Kwik Spooling", egt drop of 300 to 400+, has the highest reliability record of any High Performance turbo available and comes with a warranty!.

 

[Hohn]

JJohn, I have to disagree somewhat with what some of these guys are saying.



I have an EZ set on MOST aggressive (poor oem clutch) combined with DD2s.



Even with EZ fueling set on the quickest curve, I can easily control smoke here at 6000'. Move the jumper to 1 and the smoke is difficult to generate.



The 2s will put you about where you want to be EGT wise, even with the stock HX35. If you were looking for a turbo upgrade, I would look first to the Dodgezilla 35/40hybrid for around $650.



If you need more turbo, call that sicko Yardley and get one of his Kwikspool B1s. In the altitude, I would go with the small wheel and turbine housing version, the KSB1-B Lightning. Then your spool and smoke problems will be history.



All that to say that MY experience with DD2s has been that they are a VERY clean injectos, even here in the high country. I don't have to wash soot off my truck unless I am being stupid and intentionally trying to fog someone. I find it very difficult to generate smoke INTENTIONALLY, even lugging at low RPM in high gear with the EZ on 3 and the DD2s. I certainly can't make people "drive around" any little cloud I can make.



For towing, I would go with the Mach1. 5 or Mach 2 injectors from Don M. More torque for a given HP, less smoke, lower EGTs. . all good things.



I would second the recommendation favoring quick spooling over peak EGT control. I would rather have less smoke and more response than have a hard limit on EGT. Although, it's easier to drive around EGTs with the ETH trucks. You might want to stay in the middle somewhere on the spool vs. EGT scale.



The EZ and 2s is a great setup for the alttitude-- controllable EGT, little smoke, and you can stick with a lot of stock parts (clutch, turbo, exhaust, mostly)



Justin

 

[KWIKKURT]

Originally posted by Hohn

If you need more turbo, call that sicko Yardley and get one of his Kwikspool B1s. Justin

Where did the term "That Sicko Yardley" come from?? OK whose been spreading rumors??

 

[RowJ]

Justin, I'm confused

I'm at 600' and Have DD2's & EZ on 2002 auto, like you. . I had to move from medium to low on my EZ to control big puff of smoke off the line, even empty. And, I can make plenty of smoke with EZ on low. I know there are 2 different DD2's and I'm not sure which I have, but I don't understand such a big difference between us, especially with you at alttitude????



Rowland

 

[RowJ]

Justin,

Just realized big difference between us may be my DTT transmission (which JJ has also), kicking in at lower RPM. Agree?

I love my DTT and would do it again but it is hard to keep RPM's (and Boost) up below 30 mph.

 

[jjohn]

Hey Guys

I've been talking to all kinds of people "even that sicko Yardley" from the last time I posted on this thread.



Justin I'm with Rowland on this one.



The difference in smoke between the stock transmission and the DTT master kit transmission with their loosest torque converter 89H is big!

I really really like it!!



Off the line... 80+ degree day... Heavy foot... EZ on 3rd/RV275's = lots of smoke.



Not to say I can't light foot it until I get adequate boost... . but. I installed a remote 3 position rotary switch in the cab to change my EZ settings.



Cold weather no problem at all. I'm just looking for the most manageable base line for all season smoke/power levels and flexibility to go up from that base.



Right now I'm just saving bucks! FASS system is next... soon.



Then I want to do the ATS manifold, Turbo, and injectors in the DD2 range all at once.



I wouldn't mind the scotty II and a TST3 humping the EZ down the road either!



By the way Rowland I deleted the PM in box.

JJ

 

[mlockner]

Hey JJ, are you coming to the dyno day this Saturday?? See you there if you are. Sounds like there will be a lot of trucks you could look at.

Mike L.

 

[jjohn]

Hey Mike

I need to pay more attention...



I didn't know about it. I Found the post and will try to change some plans if I can. Thanks for the heads up.

JJ

 

[Hohn]

Re: Justin,

Originally posted by RowJ

Just realized big difference between us may be my DTT transmission (which JJ has also), kicking in at lower RPM. Agree?

I love my DTT and would do it again but it is hard to keep RPM's (and Boost) up below 30 mph.

Well, I am not sure if the DTT is the difference you think it may be.



Even a tight DTT converter still slips a little. On a stick shift truck, there's no slip at all! So, theoretically, the stick shift truck has more load on it, so it should smoke more.



But there's more to it than that. The first gear ratio of the 5600 is a LOT shorter than first gear in the 47re and 48re. IN fact second gear on my 5600 (3. 38) is STILL shorter than the relatively tall 2. 45 that the automatics use.



So to really compare apples to apples, it's almost like launching the ETH trucks in thrid gear (2. 04 ratio on 5600). But still, this isn't an accurate comparison.



If we want to compare one to the other, we can use the DTT % to come up with an idea of the load on the engine. For example, the 91% converter has 91% of the coupling the a clutch would, so we can say then that the 91% DTT-equipped truck see a load that's 91% of the stick shift truck IF THE RATIOS ARE THE SAME.



Thus, that 91% truck leaning against a 2. 45 first gear ratio is fairly comparable to a stick shift truck starting out against a 2. 69 gear ratio. (2. 45/0. 91=2. 69)



This ratio of 2. 69 is almost halfway between the 2nd and 3rd ratios on the 6-speed.



So, for my smoke comparison, when I start out in second, I get very little smoke. When I start in THIRD, I still get very little smoke.



In fact, I can idle in third gear and take off with very little smoke. Since under these conditions, my engine is under more load that a DTT 91% equipped truck, it leads me to believe that my truck runs cleaner than some others.



When you account for the altitude of my location (over 6K'), it seems to indicate even more so that my truck runs a little cleaner.



The only "versions" od the DD injectors I am aware of are the old DD "Black" injectors-- the mysterious injectors known for lots of smoke and LOTS of power. If there are other versions, I am uninformed. Can anyone shed light on this? I bought my DD2s from Rod in Feb '03. Hope this helps someone pin down wich "version" of the DD2s I have.



In the end, the only thing I can think of that accounts for my truck running so clean is the Fitch Fuel Catalyst. Since I installed it at almost the same time as my injectors, I can't really say if it reduced the smokiness. I only ran for a week or two in my present configuration minus the FFC.



It SEEMS to reduce smoke, but even so, I feel like it would have to be a pretty subtle enhancement.



Justin

 

[RowJ]

DD2's

I believe it was Rod who told me about two different versions of DD2's.

Your comment "very little smoke" is somewhat subjective.

All I know is anything more aggressive than gradual aceleration from a dead stop (empty at 600' alltitude) will produce heavy black puff of smoke about 3' to 4' around. Loaded 8-9,000 lbs I can stream black smoke till I get 8-10 lb boost. I can and do control it - but I'm a long way from your statement "I find it very hard to generate smoke intentionally" AND I'm a long way from 6,000 ' altitude.

Could DD2's have this much variation? DTT transmission can"t make that much difference, can it? Anyone else w/ DD2's have an opinion to help JJ decide what to buy?

 

[Hohn]

The problem I see is the subjectivity. To me, smoke that's problematic is, say, Dave Mitchell kind of smoke. Yeah, I can get a cloud if I want, but it's a very thin smoke you can easily see through. It disappears almost instantly. It's about what you might see when following a city bus or school bus.



But that is the WORST my smoke gets-- and that's only when I TRY to do it.



I believe the DD2 are very highly matched, so I think the variance in our trucks is probably due more to what we started with in the beginning. You have a different VP44 than I do, and our trannies are different, etc.



It's really an apples to oranges comparison for us. Especially since now I am in some cold weather, and the fuels are now winterized blends.



Of course, we could just tell him to get Mach 2s and guarantee he would be happy



Justin

 

[jjohn]

Hey Mike,

Looks like I'm going to miss another one. My Little girl is in a play tomorrow, I would need to leave before noon to get there on time. I'll keep my eyes open for the next event, sounds like a good time.



Hey Hohn, what the heck is a Fitch Fuel Catalyst?



EDIT: never mind found the web site.

 

[jjohn]

The latest update

Well I ended up getting a good deal on a BD HX35 14cm wastegated Turbo a while back.



Tonight I just finished installing a comp box minus the pump wire tap... I guess I like messing with myself because I know it's just a matter of time.



1x1 with 275's may be the smoke control I was looking for in traffic on warm days.

 

[StakeMan]

For our altitude I suggest you stay under 100hp for injectors. Edge comp, although I am considering going TST. 1 size smaller turbo than everyone else with a similar setup.



Another suggestion for keeping the smoke levels down is to keep the IAT and MAP sensors clean and working properly.



My truck didn't smoke much at the last dyno, for the HP it made. The truck is always in traffic so smoke control was important to me. It currently has ATS 20% injectors (90hp), old standard version Edge Comp set on level 2 (sub level 3), ATS hybrid 40. I can take off with traffic with only a wisp of smoke.



If I flog it off the line, look out.



Being drivable, EGT control, and decent HP is a tough balance to achieve at this altitude.

 

[Hohn]

Sure is. I have the EGT control and drivability, but I can't yet get "decent" hp.



I would also suggest EDMs over honed injectors-- they seem to really cut the smoke in the thin air.



I second the agreement about under 100hp on the injectors. Mach 2s are a good practical limit.

 

[StakeMan]

My post was based only on my experience. Your mileage may vary.



There were witnesses at the dyno for the amount of smoke my truck made.

 

[Hohn]

Yeah, stake. Your truck smoked a lot less than I would expect for someone pushing 500hp.



In fact, our trucks had about similar smoke, only yours had >100hp more than mine

 

[jjohn]

I'm not a Virgin anymore!

:{ :{ :My Wire has been Tapped Oh No...



Time for six bigger sticks in the Head



It started so EZ... Now I'm a Six addict...



Where will it end??? A head job with Twins????

 

[StakeMan]

It doesn't end. At one time I too thought an ez was enough. :-laf