High copper levels

[Cooper_D]

Thanks amcguy!

This is the kind of information I was looking for.

As you can see my aluminum is up, but iron & tin are zero.

Well as I said before I gave my dealer the information we will see what he does with it.

 

[Newsa]

Comparing mine to yours my copper has always been high!


The truck is stock!
The oil is Shell Rotella 15w40 for all oil changes except this last one

When I saw the numbers spike up I switched to Shell T6, which I purchased, & took to the dealer for the oil change.

The dealership buys their oils in bulk deliveries

Looking back on it now I should have said something sooner since the universal averages are 6.

If it is an oil cooler, as sag2 suggested, than it has been dumping copper ever since I purchased the truck.

The only problem with that argument is why did it drop to 36 at 43,458 miles.

Sometimes you get spikes when changing oils. Some detergents and some synthetics may pick up and clean out what was left by a previous oil.

 

[Cooper_D]

Update —- Chrysler responded:

“There are no specifications for level of copper in the oil. If there are no driveability concerns and no abnormal noises. There are no repairs required.”

 

[Cummins12V98]

Thats BS

I would ask Cummins

 

[Newsa]

Update —- Chrysler responded:

“There are no specifications for level of copper in the oil. If there are no driveability concerns and no abnormal noises. There are no repairs required.”

That's the way consumer car/truck warranty's work. If it's not dangerous and the vehicle runs as designed, no repair needed.

 

[Cooper_D]

Thats BS

I would ask Cummins

The service manager called Cummins when I was there the other day & got nowhere so I don’t think that they would care to respond to me directly.

Sad really, I like the truck & intend to keep it, but there have been more recalls on it than all my other vehicles combined.
Maybe they will find that they put defective oil coolers on 100k trucks and do a recall on oil coolers.

If something else comes up I’ll post another update.

Thanks for all the help & suggestions!

 

[Cummins12V98]

I highly advise taking your own oil sample next time.

 

[AH64ID]

Thats BS

I would ask Cummins

The Cummins service bulletin that addresses oil and used oil analysis does not have a standard for copper in it. It only addresses fuel, soot, silicon, boron, sodium, potassium, water, viscosity and TBN.

It also states this concerning copper. I added the bold font.

Engine components containing copper and lead can become chemically active with a change in the additive chemicals in the oil that is often accompanied by switching to a different brand of oil. This often results in dramatically increased levels, often ten times, of copper or lead in used oil. Increased levels from this source is not reason for excessive concern. These components will become passive after a few oil changes with different oil. Wear metal levels will then slowly decline back into the normal range for the engine.

My recommendation... stick with a single brand/viscosity of oil and drive it. Re-sample after 2-3 oil changes. Sample it yourself, and preferably not while draining if at all possible.

 

[Cooper_D]

The oil used is Shell Rotella 15w40 supplied by the dealership.

I only supplied Shell T6 for this recent oil change to see if it produced better results.

This same dealership did all the previous oil changes on my 2006 Cummins 5.9 and the copper levels on it averaged 3 over the zero to 117,000 miles of my ownership.

It has been suggested by sag2, Blackstone Labs and Cummings that an oil cooler “could” be the source of the copper, but nobody wants to pay to replace it (including myself).

I would be curious to know if anyone else on tdr had a similar situation with high copper levels on their 6.7.

Blackstone also stated that the “universal averages” is specific to the engine and vehicle - Ram truck 6.7 L.

They also said the hemi would typically have higher levels of copper especially on the first oil change and 400ppm would not be unusual.

I’m not in the habit of switching brands of oils or adding any additives to my oils or fuels.

The sample is pulled mid stream, as I stated previously, and changed approximately every 6 months, to meet warranty requirements, or 7,500 miles.

I treat my current 6.7 L the same way I treated my 5.9L the only difference is the levels of copper.

At this time I can only wait until my next oil change and retest the oil. Maybe I should ask the service manager to stand next to me while the sample is being pulled.

Thanks again for your help/suggestions!

 

[Cummins12V98]

Someone correct me if I am wrong. The pipe plug can be removed in the pic on top of the filter housing. Screw in a brass fitting with a barbed end, push on a clear poly tube and run it to the oil filler hole. Start engine let it run for a bit them take your sample from that.

I did this on my 98 12V to manually check oil pressure.

 

[AH64ID]

Yes you can do that. You could even put a small valve there permanently.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Yes you can do that. You could even put a small valve there permanently.

OH, now yer talkin!!! Yep 1/4 turn ball valve with the barbed fitting with a push on rubber cap. Now that's DA I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER!!!

 

[AH64ID]

The bypass filter on my 4Runner has a small petcock on it, and on my 05 I used the bypass return line. I’ll likely do the same on the ‘18.

 

[Dick Langendorff]

I agree with sag2 that you should not worry about the copper numbers.
My 2004 is right at 275,000.. Blackstone has showed some out of “norm” copper numbers on virtually every sample. It has been consistent. They are in line with sag2, don’t worry about. I have a lot of trouble miles and could not be happier.

 

[AH64ID]

Change the oil yourself, with oil you bought, and keep the same oil for a few changes.

See what happens, but likely nothing is wrong.

I wouldn’t ever trust a dealership to change my oil, 100% of the time I’ve been lied to, and I wouldn’t trust them to use the oil you paid for.

I also wouldn’t use Blackstone. I’ve never liked their reporting or “analysis”.

 

[Timd32]

They also said the hemi would typically have higher levels of copper especially on the first oil change and 400ppm would not be unusual.

Here is my 2018- 2500 6.4L gas oil sample thread from a few months ago, 6k miles factory fill. I'm going to go to 15k (9k interval as suggested) forget where I am now maybe 11k.

Copper: 324

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/6-4l-gas-oil-reports.266766/#post-2589801

 

[Cooper_D]

Thanks all!

I agree with sag2 and am not going to worry about it being a problem.

 

[Cooper_D]

Change the oil yourself, with oil you bought, and keep the same oil for a few changes.

See what happens, but likely nothing is wrong.

I wouldn’t ever trust a dealership to change my oil, 100% of the time I’ve been lied to, and I wouldn’t trust them to use the oil you paid for.

I also wouldn’t use Blackstone. I’ve never liked their reporting or “analysis”.

I’m afraid my oil changing days are over.

I’ve had a good relationship with my dealer for over 40 years. The parts manager is a friend & would not give the wrong oil.

I use Blackstone because they were recommended to me and they have done samples for me since 2006 if you have a better recommendation let me know who they are and why they are better.

 

[Cooper_D]

Here is my 2018- 2500 6.4L gas oil sample thread from a few months ago, 6k miles factory fill. I'm going to go to 15k (9k interval as suggested) forget where I am now maybe 11k.

Copper: 324

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/6-4l-gas-oil-reports.266766/#post-2589801

This goes along with what Blackstone told me.

I grew up changing my oil every 2,000 miles and thinking about going 15k makes me cringe, but that’s the way it is today with new engines & oils.

 

[AH64ID]

I’m afraid my oil changing days are over.

I’ve had a good relationship with my dealer for over 40 years. The parts manager is a friend & would not give the wrong oil.

I use Blackstone because they were recommended to me and they have done samples for me since 2006 if you have a better recommendation let me know who they are and why they are better.

Does the parts manager change your oil? Or do the people who work for the dealership change it? Bottom line, if you don’t see it changed, and don’t know the people changing it there is good reason to suspect it.


After a couple of Blackstone reports and phone conversations I found them incompetent. I asked my local Cummins shop who they use. Oil Analyzers Inc. the reports and comments have been better, and their cheaper.