How Heavy is Too Heavy??

[RopinFool]

I am currently shopping to buy a living quarters horse trailer. I plan to drag this thing to school and live in it so I am wanting to buy the largest living quarters that my truck is capable of adequately pulling. My truck is a '00 2500 shortbed automatic totally stock, with air-lift airbags on the rear. The trailers i am currently looking at have a dry weight of around 10k, but when you put three horses, fill em up with water and all of your gear you are looking at a total load of around 15k.

On another note I will be pulling this trailer quite a bit as I rodeo every weekend and would estimate that I will be pulling this setup probably 1000 miles a week. Will this load be too hard on my truck? Will my transmission crap out in no time?

What sort a max load would you recommend for frequent hauling?

Thanks for your replies



Grant

 

[JNeiman]

The good thing is your truck has no horsepower upgrades, so there wont be stress on the transmission in that respect, but 15K lbs is quite a hefty load in my opinion for a 2500 and an auto. Deffinately do not engage over drive. It wont hurt anything to have the Cummins at higher rpms, but it will quickly kill your transmission to have it at low rpms. If you are really that serious about how much you are going to be hauling (both in weight and milage) you might want to consider a 3500 with a 5 or preferably a 6 speed or a built up automatic. Or, you could jump on board like most of us here and turn your truck into a pulling monster. Its no cheap ride, but it sure is fun. Figure $3000 for a beefed up transmission from DDT, ATS, or BD among others, and then some power upgrades, gauges, exhuast... etc.

 

[jponder]

I agree that you should consider a Manual but a 2500 HAS A HIGHER GCWR than a 3500 not lower all things being equal yet I hear people some how beleive the 3500 has more towing capacity which is False

 

[bmoeller]

My boss' dad and his youngest brother both use Chevy 2500 ('04 HD R/C, 5spd man. and '00 L/D, auto, ext. cab, S/B, w/ HD rear springs) trucks to haul livestock (mostly cattle). They both pull 26' trailers. They both gross at around 22-24k almost every day. Both trucks have the 6. 0L gasser and 3. 73 gears.



Niether one has really had any problems at all. Not even worn out brake pads.



You should be fine. I would probably BOMB the transmission though.



With the 3. 54 gears, I would lockout the O/D.

 

[Thomas]

"a 2500 HAS A HIGHER GCWR "



It may be the same for some years but not more. The difference between the GCWR and the empty weight of the 2500 may be greater than the difference between the GCWR and the empty weight of the 3500.

 

[jponder]

Originally posted by Thomas

"a 2500 HAS A HIGHER GCWR "



It may be the same for some years but not more. The difference between the GCWR and the empty weight of the 2500 may be greater than the difference between the GCWR and the empty weight of the 3500.

In the slick I got for the 2000 year models it shows a higher GCWR its like 100 or 150 lbs higher. I'm sure of it. You can say its wrong or a misprint but its there

 

[JNeiman]

The only reason I sugested a 3500 is because of stability reasons. In a horse trailer especially where the load can shift (because horses move) the daul wheels help to keep the truck and trailer moving straight down the road. If you dont feel like investing in bombs which is understandable, I would suggest keeping the truck stock and just stay out of O/D. When the transmission gives out which could be 50kmi or 150kmi, then look to upgrade. Maybe a larger aftermarket transmission cooler would be a good idea though for the time being.

 

[RopinFool]

Thanks for the replies guys... can't really change trucks, so for the time being i am stuck with this one. . my only regret is that i wasnt patient enough to wait to find a 6 speed. I looked for 6 months before coming across this truck.



IN order to prolong the life of my transmission I am considering having a shop in town install a DTT valve body and possibly do the torque convertor as well if i can come up with the money.

A question that i have is, by doing the valve body will i be able to achieve 2nd gear lock up? I currently have a BD e-brake with the autolock which functions pretty well as long as you can stay in 3rd gear, but a lot of times coming down those grades with 25 and 30 mph turns you need to be a gear lower, rendering the e-brake pretty much useless because 2nd gear doesnt lock up.

I am tryign to do all of this on a budget and I know that the optimal thing to do would be to buy a full DTT transmission and the controller that goes with it, but being a college student with a hefty truck payment and soon to be hefty trailer payment, my disposable income is few and far between. Any suggestions you guys have would be great.

Thanks



Grant

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by jponder

I agree that you should consider a Manual but a 2500 HAS A HIGHER GCWR than a 3500 not lower all things being equal yet I hear people some how beleive the 3500 has more towing capacity which is False

We run into this problem on iRV2.com all the time. What you are missing is the difference in GVWR between the 2500 and 3500. In towing a 5th wheel or gooseneck with high pin weights, the 2500 will run out of GVWR long before it runs out of GCWR. This is totally ignored in "manufacturers' towing ratings" and is the reason that it's necessary to do all the math when deciding what can or cannot be towed.



One should start with the actual laden curb weight (LCW) of the truck - the weight of the truck with driver, passengers, cargo, fuel, hitch, and anything else that will be in the truck as it's heading down the road. With this data,



GCWR - LCW = Maximum loaded total weight of trailer



GVWR - LCW = Maximum pin or hitch weight of trailer



The 2nd equation is what allows the 3500 to tow a larger 5th wheel or gooseneck than the 2500.



RustyJC

Moderator, iRV2.com

 

[jponder]

Yes I understand the tongue weight pulling a heavy trailer might make you exceed GVWR.



You are assuming I am talking about a trailer that has tongue weight. Maybe I am talking about a dolly loaded with hay that has 0 Tongue weight.



I am just making a Blanket statement that the 2500's had a Higher GCWR than the 3500. I stand by that statement.



Dont misunderstand me now I am not saying they have more available towing because they weigh less I mean The Numerical value of GCWR is higher. For those that think GCWR is like the 10 commandments they might think of trading in that 3500

 

[Thomas]

"In the slick I got for the 2000 year models it shows a higher GCWR its like 100 or 150 lbs higher. I'm sure of it. You can say its wrong or a misprint but its there"



The 'slicks' that I have for model years 1999, 2000, & 2001 show a Maximum GCWR of 20,000 pounds for Cummins equipped 2500's & 3500's—with the exception of the HO version of the 3500 in 2001 which is listed at 21,500 pounds.



The Maximum Trailer Weight Rating listed in these 'slicks' is greater for non-HO 2500's when compared to similarly configured 3500's in complete agreement with RustJC's GCWR - LCW = Maximum loaded total weight of trailer.

 

[Joe G.]

The DTT valve body does provide 2nd gear lock up. The weight of the whole business might do in the stock torque convertor so you should get a torque convertor if you can swing it.



One thing to consider before towing over loaded is if your insurance company will pay off if you have a wreck. If someone was to run a stop sign and you hit him you might find yourself liable because of being over weight. Couldn't stop quick enough.

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by jponder

I am just making a Blanket statement that the 2500's had a Higher GCWR than the 3500. I stand by that statement.

My 3500 has a GCWR of 21,500 lbs and a GVWR of 10,500 lbs. I don't believe you can find a 2nd generation 2500 that can match either of those ratings.



Rusty

 

[clem]

The 2500 cannot carry the weight on the rear axle that the 3500 can. 4 "E" rated tires can carry more that 2 "E" rated tires every day. Don't care what you do to a SRW truck call it a 3500 if you want it still comes down to the wheels and tires

 

[Snow man]

Not only cant the 2500 carry the weight,but when the weight gets close to/or over the tire limit,not only are you at high risk for a blowout,but the stablilty isnt very good,the rig can wiggle,sway,and just wander on the road. A dually in the same situation drives perfectly. As for the GCWR on paper,its about as valuable as that peice of paper when your over the GCWR either way. the only reason the duallys is less by 150lbs is the truck weighs that much more than the srw due to the extra tires/wheels.

 

[clem]

10-4 on that , but if you have a SRW 3500 you still have 2500 . They use the same tires and wheels. Go figger

 

[jponder]

Originally posted by clem

The 2500 cannot carry the weight on the rear axle that the 3500 can. 4 "E" rated tires can carry more that 2 "E" rated tires every day. Don't care what you do to a SRW truck call it a 3500 if you want it still comes down to the wheels and tires

My tires are H rated and each has a load rating of 6395 lbs. How much are your two E tires rated at when run as duals?

 

[jponder]

Originally posted by Joe G.

The DTT valve body does provide 2nd gear lock up. The weight of the whole business might do in the stock torque convertor so you should get a torque convertor if you can swing it.



One thing to consider before towing over loaded is if your insurance company will pay off if you have a wreck. If someone was to run a stop sign and you hit him you might find yourself liable because of being over weight. Couldn't stop quick enough.

I have never heard or seen anyone weighing vehicles at accident scenes. If they dont weigh your rig at the scene then how can they ever know the weight.



Lets say someone weighed your rig at the scene, Maybe insurance police Bob is out looking for accidents with his scales, he spots you and says that boy is over weight and runs up and weighs everything.



There seems to be some perception that if you are overweight then your insurance company wont cover you and I think that is bull. They may cancel you but they are forced to cover you. If I am going down the road and I'm drunk and run a red light and Kill a bunch of Nuns and Orphans will the insurance company be able to say OH no we cant cover that because he was being bad? Of course not they are in the mix just like ME.



Anytime you are talking about people being killed it has to be the obligatory Nuns and Orphans. If I said I had run a red light and killed a bunch of child Molesters then the argument just wouldnt be the same



If GCWR has some kind of legal meaning then why can you register your vehicle at weights over the OEM GCWR?

 

[Dean Upson]

Originally posted by jponder

If GCWR has some kind of legal meaning then why can you register your vehicle at weights over the OEM GCWR?

In Connecticut you cannot register your vehicle for more than the GVW on the door. You have to register it for that weight. My truck has a GVW of 12K and has to be registered for that, no more, no less.



Dean

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by jponder

If GCWR has some kind of legal meaning then why can you register your vehicle at weights over the OEM GCWR?

Because vehicle registration in most states is a function of:



1. Road use tax - you pay more to carry more weight



2. Protection of roadbeds and bridges - thus, the regulation on maximum individual axle weight



To illustrate, my cousin's former hotshot rig was an F-250 PS/5-speed pulling a 40' tandem dually gooseneck. It had Texas apportioned tags good for 39,999 lbs. Obviously, that vehicle registration had nothing to do with GVWR or GCWR of the truck.



Vehicle registration, unfortunately, has nothing to do with vehicle safety or cargo/tow capabilities in most states. As Dean said, though, there are a few exceptions as states are wising up to what's going on in the real world.



Rusty