How Heavy is Too Heavy??

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by jponder

My tires are H rated and each has a load rating of 6395 lbs.

I'm assuming you've upgraded your wheels to some with a rating commensurate with the H-rated tires, right?



Rusty

 

[Fireman]

The insurance company will pay... ... . up to the limits of your policy. If you are sued, you will be responsable for any amount above your coverage.



Ropinfool



Weight arguments aside, I don't think you will be happy pulling 15,000# trailer with your current truck. I had a trailer dealer that wouldn't sell me a trailer that heavy because I had a 2500, she said that when they sold trailers that heavy to 2500 owners most returned unhappy. She was right.



Fireman

 

[jponder]

Originally posted by Thomas

"In the slick I got for the 2000 year models it shows a higher GCWR its like 100 or 150 lbs higher. I'm sure of it. You can say its wrong or a misprint but its there"



The 'slicks' that I have for model years 1999, 2000, & 2001 show a Maximum GCWR of 20,000 pounds for Cummins equipped 2500's & 3500's—with the exception of the HO version of the 3500 in 2001 which is listed at 21,500 pounds.



The Maximum Trailer Weight Rating listed in these 'slicks' is greater for non-HO 2500's when compared to similarly configured 3500's in complete agreement with RustJC's GCWR - LCW = Maximum loaded total weight of trailer.

I just got back my sales slick and I retract my statement about Higher GCWR in Fact they are equal, I amend it to reflect what the column to the left says and what JC and Thomas stated.



The column to the left of GCWR is called Maximum Trailer weight rating and guess when I read it and saw the 2500s could spank the 3500 in trailer pulling well I guess I just got all excited and changed the GCWR also. Anyway I retract the GCWR is higher for a 2500 than a 3500 because they are equal, but I know in my heart that the 2500 will spank the 3500 in pulling



I refuse to retract any statement about the Nuns and Orphans

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by jponder

Anyway I retract the GCWR is higher for a 2500 than a 3500 because they are equal.

If you'll look in the 2001 and 2002 towing guides, the GCWR for a 3500 Cummins HO/6-speed with 4. 10 rear axle is 21,500 lbs. There is no 2500 rated for 21,500 lbs GCWR, so they are not all equal at 20,000 lbs.



Rusty

 

[Hudsonhawk]

For the '03 the GCVWR is 1000# less for the 2500 then the 3500 when configured identicle. I. E. QC SLT HO/6 Speed SWB SRW. Also GVWR for the 2500 is 900# less then the 3500 in the same configuration.

 

[Thomas]

I think the 'slick' jponder is talking about is model year 2000 which is pre-HO Cummins.

 

[jponder]

Yes I am looking at the year 2000 sales slick and quoting numbers from it

 

[clem]

The thing you all are missing if you hitch a trailer of say 16K to a 2500 using the min 10% hitch weight rule a 2500 is over loaded donot care what your tow rateings are it's the Hitch load for pull types or pin loads for goosenecks or 5th wheels. Please let me know when you are going to be on the road so I can get off. You are going to need all the room you can get to control that trailer.

 

[dtrevathan]

jpondr wrote:

I agree that you should consider a Manual but a 2500 HAS A HIGHER GCWR than a 3500 not lower all things being equal yet I hear people some how beleive the 3500 has more towing capacity which is False



Here are the numbers for a 2500 and a 3500. Please tell us how a 2500 can tow more!





2003 Ram Truck 2500 SLT, Quad Cab, 4x4, Short Bed, Manual 6-Speed, 5. 9L 24V Turbo Diesel High Output engine:



With 3. 73 Axle Ratio You Can Tow 12850 lbs2

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) = 9000 lbs

Payload = 1990 lbs1

Curb Weight = 7012 lbs

Curb Weight Front/Rear = 4269 / 2744 lbs

GAWR Front/Rear = 5200 / 6000 lbs

Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) = 20000 lbs



2003 Ram Truck 3500 SLT, Quad Cab, 4x4, Short Bed, Manual 6-Speed, 5. 9L 24V Turbo Diesel High Output engine:



With 3. 73 Axle Ratio You Can Tow 13750 lbs2

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) = 9900 lbs

Payload = 2820 lbs1

Curb Weight = 7080 lbs

Curb Weight Front/Rear = 4277 / 2804 lbs

GAWR Front/Rear = 5200 / 6150 lbs

Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) = 21000 lbs

 

[Scrappy]

GCWR

the GCWR for a 2500 AUTO w/3. 55's is only 16K#, you will be 4-5K overweight with the combo you are wanting to run. the auto with 3. 55's costs you 4K in capacity, you should really have waited. It is also true that a 6spd QC2500 4x4 can pull a heavier trailer than all but a 3500QC 6 spd 4x4. Just can't carry as much of the trailer weight on the truck. (At least on a '2001, that is)

 

[jponder]

Originally posted by clem

The thing you all are missing if you hitch a trailer of say 16K to a 2500 using the min 10% hitch weight rule a 2500 is over loaded donot care what your tow rateings are it's the Hitch load for pull types or pin loads for goosenecks or 5th wheels. Please let me know when you are going to be on the road so I can get off. You are going to need all the room you can get to control that trailer.

First you say its just about the tires and now you are going a different direction.

The 10% hitch weight is irrelevant. My truck is 7100 +1600 = 8700 lbs. 100 lbs below my GVWR

ANY vehicle 2500 or 3500 is overloaded by GCWR. The hitch weight is irrelevant in this example

Please let me know when you learn to Calculate these things where I can stay of the road because of you

 

[jponder]

Re: GCWR

Originally posted by jvanwaardhuizen

the GCWR for a 2500 AUTO w/3. 55's is only 16K#, you will be 4-5K overweight with the combo you are wanting to run. the auto with 3. 55's costs you 4K in capacity, you should really have waited. It is also true that a 6spd QC2500 4x4 can pull a heavier trailer than all but a 3500QC 6 spd 4x4. Just can't carry as much of the trailer weight on the truck. (At least on a '2001, that is)

This brings up something interesting if the 2500 with auto has a GCWR of 16K and if you changed the transmission to the 6 speed it raised to 20K. then this s a 4 K difference. If its not 4 K because changing to the 6 speed only raises to some other number then lets say it raises ^G



This change in GCWR is just because of the auto right. I mean brakes springs etc are all the same right. Since we get very little braking out of the cummins I dont think the ^G change is for safety reasons but just DC realizes that our automatics are weak and if you tow heavy you are going to fry it.



IF the change in GCWR is purely because of DC not wanting to have to warranty a weak transmission then doesnt it make sense that this guy, assuming he is his own warranty station, has a right to destroy the truck he paid for in any way he sees fit? Indeed if this guy goes with a tricked out transmission that can pull the weight then should he always be held down by the GP Police and not allowed to use his truck how he wants when the Lower GCWR was NOT based on any safety concerns.



On this narrow specific example can I get an AMEN from a GP!



RustyJC you need to dig Deep on this one and search your soul and come with a big AMEN. Look in the mirror and do the right thing here.



dtrevathan> page 24 of the 2000 sales slick for Dodge trucks

 

[TPCDrafting]

I would suggest starting with a smaller trailer. One with a weekender type quarters. In slant load trailers, if you have more than one horse on board, you cant feel them "shifting". For one, there isn't far for them to go. For two if you have them stacked such that your heaviest horse is in the back, the tongue weight is decreased siginificantly. I know, I pull horse trailers all the time. I've pulled up to around 13k in a 5 horse trailer setup. It didn't have but a small changing room up front. If you start with a smaller trailer, and concentrate on winning some ropings rather than if you'll "make it to the rodeo", before you know it, you'll be driving a sponsered truck and trailer. We'll know you like we know Joe Beaver. One step at a time, good luck. For comparison, I've pulled 15k and 16k loads before on flatbed goosenecks. Driving around 65-70 mph. It's not squirly or difficult to drive by any means. It's not a big issue as stated above.

 

[RustyJC]

Re: Re: GCWR

Originally posted by jponder

This brings up something interesting if the 2500 with auto has a GCWR of 16K and if you changed the transmission to the 6 speed it raised to 20K... ... . this change in GCWR is just because of the auto, right?

No, the 2500 automatic has a Dana 70 rear axle. The others have a Dana 80.



Rusty

 

[Snow man]

Rusty is right. My 2000 2500 auto 4. 10 has an 18000 GCWR,my dad's 01 3500 4. 10 auto has a 19000 GCWR. This tells me the limit of the dana 70 is 18000lbs GCWR. So if i swapped to an 80 in my 3/4 ton the "rating" could raise to 19000,not that i care or would do it,but it just shows that the limits of the Dana 70 are met before the 47RE at least in Dodge's eyes.