Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) How many have seen kdp on 24 valve truck

[DCreed]

around the outside of the hole to "shrink" it so the pin cant wiggle out.

 

[drag racer]

Thanks. That's pretty much what I did in about 3 places; boogered up the hole a little in the process, but I don't think the pin is going anywhere.

 

[WTBurke]

This just bumbs me out... . I don't mind doing something for a specific "known" reason but, this unknown condition is a PIA. I know... I know... better safe than sorry but, I'm not happy with this!



William

 

[Ncostello]

My pin was out flush with the cover. I'd say I tapped it back in about 1/8" to 1/4". So movement had occured... assuming Cummins drove it home in the first place. You never know about that either!



I just inserted a small diameter punch in the bore and made two dimples in the bore itself. Then I took a larger diameter punch and made three dimples around the bore opening... effectively reducing the diameter of the opening. I also sprayed the bore with electrical cleaner/degreaser, shot it with compressed air and put some wicking green loctite in there.



In fact... if I'm not mistaken... I think I remember reading the Cummins solution was to ping/stake and loctite. I know the loctite itself is good to like 500 F and I'm sure it would hold the pin all by itself. But pinging is without a doubt fast, cheap and effective. Can't see not doing that while your already there.



The pin fits pretty tight in the bore... so any deformation of the bore will pretty much lock it in place. Remember the KDP moves because minute vibration. To overcome stakes or peens or whatever... it would have to have some real good force behind it... which it dont.



I'd say if it comes out... it would be because there was some gun powder behind it.



The only hard part here is installing a new seal in the front cover. The seals come with an alignment ring tool deal that allows you to A. Get it square and B. Get it in at the proper depth.



The seal installs from the back of the cover. When its in properly... you can read the part number from the outer side (readable once the cover is installed).



Square the seal up the best you can and use a 2x4 block to hit it square and get it started. Once it starts at all... its pretty easy to drive it home with the 2x4 block. Once its in as far as you can with the 2x4... you can then use the tool to finish driving it home and squaring it up. The tool bottoms out against the cover and thats when you're good.



Support the cover on a bench or floor using other 2x4's... getting the 2x4's right up against the "flared" cover hole for the seal. This gives the thin cover support around where you're hitting it to prevent bending.



Check the crankshaft for nicks or burrs and wipe it clean. Next, the new seal gets installed DRY. NO LUBE!!!



The seal comes with another tool aid. Its a plastic sleeve that goes in the seal ID from the back side. Its like a funnel shaped guide that gets the crank nose started into the seal while spreading the seal open.



Now this seems odd to some... but once the plastic sleeve is installed into the seal... just leave it on and install the cover with the sleeve. As the crank goes into the seal... it just shoves the plastic sleeve out. You might have to grab the sleeve once the cover is bolted in place and tug it slightly to totally remove. Just trust this gizmo and let it work for you.



Once you align the seal on the shaft during cover reinstallation... you can push the seal/cover up on the shaft a little and then insert a few of the long bolts in around the cover to make reasonable alignment as you give the cover its last push home. This is especially important to you folks using Triple Bond RTV instead of a gasket.



I use the Triple Bond RTV personally with just a small 1/16 to 1/8 bead all around including the bolt holes. It takes time to get this perfect. Don't slop it on. A leak will tough to fix as you have to clean up all the new RTV and redo. New RTV stick real good.



Otherwise a gasket is the way to go. Cummins did it both ways. I once even used a gasket AND Cummins Triple Bond. PS: Triple Bond is the "silvery" silicon sealant. Several people make this. Valco comes to mind. They probably make it for Cummins.



NOTE: If you sample your oil... expect higher silicon readings for some time. Its the sealant... not dirt through the air filter.

 

[WTBurke]

OK... I gotta do it. I was going to just drink egg-nogs through the Holidays but, I guess I'd better stay sober.

I'm being lazy so give me a nod on this if I'm thinking correctly.



1) Remover radiator

2) Remove front cover (gasket must be replaced)

3) Do the peen thing and loctite

4) Put it back together



Am I correct?



William

 

[DCreed]

may not need to remove rad. , also may not be able to peen unless it (KDP) is recessed slightly when pushed in. Dont forget to torque other case bolts while in there!

 

[drag racer]

Thanks. That's pretty much what I did in about 3 places; boogered up the hole a little in the process, but I don't think the pin is going anywhere.

... I also cleaned the hole with brake cleaner, dried it w/ compressed air, and shot some green loctite in there before putting the cover back on. Feeling pretty good that I need not worry about this anymore. Oo.

 

[drag racer]

OK... I gotta do it. I was going to just drink egg-nogs through the Holidays but, I guess I'd better stay sober.

I'm being lazy so give me a nod on this if I'm thinking correctly.



1) Remover radiator

2) Remove front cover (gasket must be replaced)

3) Do the peen thing and loctite

4) Put it back together



Am I correct?



William

... also need to remove the fan/clutch, and the fan hub support (4 bolts), and the oil breather canister (if you have a 24V). radiator might be able to be left in, but i removed mine to have it pressure checked and to clean the front side, and also because I am installing the Flex-alite 262 fans. Having the radiator out also provides several more inches more precious working space if you take it out (will also need to remove the coolant overflow bottle and the washer bottle from the shroud if you do this) .

 

[WTBurke]

DC... Thank you... I take it that non-removal of the radiator just makes the work kinda close up but, I don't wish to remove the radiator if not required. Yes, I will check the inner case bolts while I'm there. I also assume the gasket would be doped over with common sealing material after surface clean-up is performed. Silicon based materials are abundant in selection... is there something that is "preferred" or recommended in this particular application?



William

 

[Ncostello]

I never removed the radiator on my 99. Remove as much as you like to make it easier.



And for you folks with grubby and gunky engines... do your truck a favor and power wash it first. Keep crud out of your work. If the engine is built up... it will be hard to keep crud out of your work area in this situation.



The idler pulley has 6 small bolts and it has to come off. Use your imagination on how to loosen those bolts with a free wheeling pulley. Maybe loosen before removing the belt. I use a block of wood and wedge it. They don't require tons of torque... but can still be a pain.



Do not underestimate the fan nut or the balancer bolts. They can cause issues.



The fan nut loosens by turning toward the driver fender when standing in front looking at it. Its reverse thread. Take a wrench that fits and is long. Smack with a mallet while holding the wrench carefully. Watch the fingers and don't hit the truck. It might take 10 hits but it'll come loose.



On the harmonic balancer... remove the 4 bolts by smacking or impacting with a mallet the same. I don't know what the access is like anymore... cause on my 91 I had the radiator out etc. I think you can get the balancer bolts from below on the 2nd gens.



Or if you have a manual shift... stick a bar of steel in the ujoint and against the ground with the truck in gear. This will prevent engine rotation and you can just breaker bar the bolts.



The rest is obvious. I know that removing the radiator would make life easier. Plus you can flush it out and clean the fins and get new coolant for winter.



Remember the coolant drain is on the driver side... 1/4 turns then pulls out straight to drain. Don't keep twisting it. Its not fully threaded.



A newer cummins gasket should not require dope. Dry install should work. I think they are rubber coated. Just get the sealing surfaces CLEAN and de-oiled.



Don't underestimate cleaning the parts. Keep debris out of the case gears.



But Napa's Hi-Tack brush on always works good for gaskets and has never hurt me. Then again thats for paper gaskets and cork.



And remember... PROTECT your intercooler/condenser/radiator fins. This work requires some leaning, reaching, removing fan blades and kneeling on the front bumper. Get some cardboard and eliminate "dents" right on your finned friends that everyone see's when you open the hood.

 

[WTBurke]

NC. . DC & DR, Thank you ... I feel I am well armed with working knowledge between the experience you all share. I will do the job asap... . it's always fun doing Bombs but, foundational cautions such as this are required. I'm pleased to be associated with fellow minds as yourselves... the TDR ROCKS!



Sincerely

William

 

[DCreed]

I left my fan attached to the pully and removed in one piece from the block only four bolts but the one tucked in is tricky unless you got a old box end wrench you can grind a little! definatly CLEAN first if possible makes everything easier. Any sealer good for oil pans will work. Watch the vp44 video and it wont seem so bad.

 

[drag racer]

other years might be different, but on my '99, the idler pulley does not need to come off to get the gear cover off

 

[drag racer]

NC. . DC & DR, Thank you ... I feel I am well armed with working knowledge between the experience you all share. I will do the job asap... . it's always fun doing Bombs but, foundational cautions such as this are required. I'm pleased to be associated with fellow minds as yourselves... the TDR ROCKS!



Sincerely

William

You're welcome, and I also send a big thanks to everyone - that's what makes this forum great. Even though I consider myself very well mechanically-inclined, when it comes to certain teardowns and repairs on our trucks that I have not performed before, I can't tell you how many times researching a given job or part on here FIRST has saved me much hassle and angst - especially those little tricks & techniques that are only learned through making a mistake and the figuring out a better way to do something.

 

[DCreed]

especially those little tricks & techniques that are only learned through making a mistake and the figuring out a better way to do something.

I've NEVER done THAT! LOL!:-laf:-laf

 

[GCroyle]

Fixed 98 Before KDP Hit

My neighbor has a 97 3500, 107,000 miles. We pulled the cover off today and the pin was out a little bit. Tapped it in, fabbed a tab and prevented the problem. Did it with rad in place, fan out as an assy, took about 4 1/2 hours.

Engine production date, 2/98.



Next, transfer pump.

 

[MUDDY]

02 kdp proof

here is an example of a kdp falling out in an 02



1999 KDP Reminder - Idaho Turbo Diesels



post 6 has prooof

 

[drag racer]

I would have loved to see the total cost on that invoice if it was not a warranty job

 

[Steve Robinson]

Thanks everyone for the heads up on the KDP. I have a 98. 5 that has had practically all of the engine and transmission problems that have been reported therefore I don't doubt my dowel pin should be repaired before it becomes a bigger problem.



I don't wrench so I will need to have it repaired. Is this a fix that the dealership mechanics are familiar with? Any thought about the cost?



98. 5 2500 quad-cab

 

[RStankevitz]

my local diesel shop just did my dads 95 with the standard transmission. the pin was out about 1/8" or more. he doesnt remove radiator or shroud he spins fan off first then loosens the 6 bolts on pulley and 4 on balancer before belt removal. then after removing balancer fan will fit out the bottom and from there it is pretty straight forward seemed like plenty of room with shroud in place. now to do my 96 guess i got to get at it