ok, we are suppose to share knowledge even if it is painful to our ego. here I go. I found on craigs list a set four military 37 x 16. 5 surplus tires new for 100. 00 each. new tires are 200-250 each with a total cost of over $1100. 00 for a set of new tires. I was looking due to mine being about 3/4 in worn down. (thats my excuse). The guy that I bought the tires from provided a set of 16. 5 rims with the tires. said he had to grind out the center hubs being that they were 1993 rims and the hub dia. is smaller. said he had to do this to his rims and it worked fine. In order to balance them he went to walmart and bought a bunch of balance beads and put them in the tires before mounting them for me. When I installed them I ended up with a vilolent shimmy in my front end that some affectionatly here call the "death wobble". Someone at work that rock climbs ect... said that Hummer H! rims are 16. 5 inch in DIA. and would be a cheep way to get a set of rims for my tires. I finally found a set of H! rims , again on craigslist and purchased them for $100. 00. They had tires on them and the run flat center plasitc's inside and it is a pain to remove them and even after all that I found out that the centers on those need to be blown out by a machine shop. That was the only the start of the trouble. The valve stem on the run flats that go in the rims are oval. This means that a machine shop will have to either change the stem oval to a circle or weld it and drill a new one. then even after that I found out that 2nd generation dodge's came with three different rear ends. They range from 8 bolt to 10 bolt rear ends. Mine happened to be a 10 bolt. Thank god I had the mechanic check the rims before I headed to the machine shop because at some time in the past someone had replaced my rear end with the rear end out of a 3500 one ton, the rims did not fit over the rear brake drums. I am totally frustrated. This all started out with me wanting to find an economical way to put new tires on my 4x4. I did a search on here and nobody addressed the 16. 5 inch Hummer rims that support the surplus military tires. The only way I see this working is to get a set of pre 1994 dodge 250 16. 5 rims and take them to a machine shop and blow out the centers to 3. 78-3. 80 to fit the second generation hubs. I sit here humbled but with knowledge to share! Hope this helps some one from making the same mistakes I have made.
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2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Hummer, H1, wheels, rims and 16.5 inch.
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Simplysmn
TDR MEMBER
Well I can tell you from Experience that the hummer wheel's are not all that they are thought to be with the offset they work good on the back of a first gen but after that there pretty much junk . as for the tires the 37's are a very good tire ride nice and handle alot of weight I would say get a set of after market 16. 5 wheel's and you should be fine to run the 37's . As for the runflat's there solid rubber n a pain to remove if what you ran across was plastic then it was just a beadlock Good luck in your search
Surplus military tires? When were they molded? The DOT code on the inner sidewall will show mold date. Are they overaged and unsafe to use? What is their speed rating? Some off road military vehicles may have tires rated for very slow speeds.
I think you have made the most important first step already. You've admitted to yourself and publicly on the TDR forum that you made some bad choices. Perhaps you would be better off to put all that junk back on Craigslist and get rid of it so you can start over with a proper set of new highway tires for your factory wheels.
I think you have made the most important first step already. You've admitted to yourself and publicly on the TDR forum that you made some bad choices. Perhaps you would be better off to put all that junk back on Craigslist and get rid of it so you can start over with a proper set of new highway tires for your factory wheels.
HHhuntitall
TDR MEMBER
First, let's address the tires. I'm going to presume you have some of the later Goodyear Wrangler MTs, with Military OZ stamped above the load rating..... like in the pic below. If so, you're ok. If not, you're not ok. Those tires are DOT approved, and while old, they'll still hold up fairly welll if they have some tread left. The older tires with the old zig-zag tread are bias ply, and will still hold up, but as mentioned above, they will not run long. Goodyear uses a different rubber compound on their radial MT series of tires, and as long as there is no physical or visible damage to the sidwall or tread, they should be fine... . just remember, it is possible these tires could have come from a war zone or training area. Either one is not healthy for a tire.
As for the wheel, just about any 16. 5 aluminum or modular truck wheel from JC whitney to Dick Cepek or Mickey Thompson should fit your Dodge. Most wheels manufactured by aftermarkets had an oversized wheel center for centercaps, and go on the hub easily, centering on the lugs of your truck. They used the older angle seat beads, such as are found on Heavy duty trucks and some equipment.
If you happen to have a Dana 80 rear, some of the aluminum Chinese rims may make contact to the brake drum. You don't really want those, anyway. Look around, ask at the local tire shop, and try advertising your desire for some in the Craigslist "Wanted" section. Next, get rid of the Hummer rims. Sorry. Not just my opinion, either. (As for my opinion, those wheels have thier place, and that's beside the Hummer they came on down at the recycling yard, cut into small pieces to go in the aluminum scrap pile. ) The scrap yard might even have a set. Certainly don't go spending $2-300 on machine work on 'em!! 16. 5 rims are still around, but not nearly as popular as they were even 10 years ago. Lots of people have them laying in corners of their backyard, just because they forgot about them, and they think nobody wants them. For whatever reasons, lots of the late '70s and early 80s Fords ran them, and the later models have larger center bores prior to the bolt pattern change of '99, so they'll fit your Dodge... ... keep your eyes open. A last thought would be an offroad shop in your area... they may have a spare set or know where a set is. If you get up to Denton, Tx, I know where two or three sets are..... don't know if they're for sale, but they're there. These surplus military tires are keeping the rim size alive for the time being.
As for balancing these things, I'd say if you get a set with a lot of tread, I'd first just try running them and see how bad they are. I've sold several dozen sets of these the last few years, and even have a set out back I just took off a truck I sold. Only one or two ever had a wobble at 55mph. The one in the pic is the spare for that set, so the tread is poor, but it still doesn't vibrate at 55. Good luck, hope this helps... .
As for the wheel, just about any 16. 5 aluminum or modular truck wheel from JC whitney to Dick Cepek or Mickey Thompson should fit your Dodge. Most wheels manufactured by aftermarkets had an oversized wheel center for centercaps, and go on the hub easily, centering on the lugs of your truck. They used the older angle seat beads, such as are found on Heavy duty trucks and some equipment.
If you happen to have a Dana 80 rear, some of the aluminum Chinese rims may make contact to the brake drum. You don't really want those, anyway. Look around, ask at the local tire shop, and try advertising your desire for some in the Craigslist "Wanted" section. Next, get rid of the Hummer rims. Sorry. Not just my opinion, either. (As for my opinion, those wheels have thier place, and that's beside the Hummer they came on down at the recycling yard, cut into small pieces to go in the aluminum scrap pile. ) The scrap yard might even have a set. Certainly don't go spending $2-300 on machine work on 'em!! 16. 5 rims are still around, but not nearly as popular as they were even 10 years ago. Lots of people have them laying in corners of their backyard, just because they forgot about them, and they think nobody wants them. For whatever reasons, lots of the late '70s and early 80s Fords ran them, and the later models have larger center bores prior to the bolt pattern change of '99, so they'll fit your Dodge... ... keep your eyes open. A last thought would be an offroad shop in your area... they may have a spare set or know where a set is. If you get up to Denton, Tx, I know where two or three sets are..... don't know if they're for sale, but they're there. These surplus military tires are keeping the rim size alive for the time being.
As for balancing these things, I'd say if you get a set with a lot of tread, I'd first just try running them and see how bad they are. I've sold several dozen sets of these the last few years, and even have a set out back I just took off a truck I sold. Only one or two ever had a wobble at 55mph. The one in the pic is the spare for that set, so the tread is poor, but it still doesn't vibrate at 55. Good luck, hope this helps... .
HHhuntitall
TDR MEMBER
I'm checking my email, saw you're post this evening, I live 10 miles West of Sanger on FM455, have a shop, etc. If you go into Orielly's and ask them about a Cummins and parts, they'll give you my number..... I'll try to remember to call you tomorrow, and I'll call my contacts and see about the rims. One of the guy's name is Billy, who works at Orielly's, drives my old '95 gasser, white w/gray bed. He has a set that just came off his '95 he traded..... don't know if he'll part with them. The other two sets are just West of Krum; I'll try to get ahold of him tomorrow if I remember, too.
Simplysmn
TDR MEMBER
What ever you do stay away from any rim with less then a 12 bolt ring the 8 bolt is early style n r Junk plus there not made to hold the radial tires what you really want to find is the 24 bolt wheel's double spaced stud's are the best 1's If you wern't n texas I can get them easy in Calif
sorry but I am really not a tire and wheel guy as far as knowledge in this area. I have no idea what you mean by a 12 bolt ring, 8 bolt or 24 bolt? I am going to take a stab at it and say that you are referring to afrtermarket riveted rims. In both cases I was talking about stock H1 hummer and 1993 dodge rims. both in the stock form.
sorry but I am really not a tire and wheel guy as far as knowledge in this area. I have no idea what you mean by a 12 bolt ring, 8 bolt or 24 bolt? I am going to take a stab at it and say that you are referring to afrtermarket riveted rims. In both cases I was talking about stock H1 hummer and 1993 dodge rims. both in the stock form.
It's pretty easy to find aftermarket 16. 5 wheels for cheap. I just sold a set of aluminum slot 8. 75" x 16. 5" wheels for $120.
Dodge & Chevy factory steel wheels used to interchange before the 2nd gen Dodges came along with their larger center hub. Fords always had a larger center hub. Then about 10 years ago, Ford went metric on the bolt pattern and are no longer 8 on 6. 5" like Chevy and Dodge.
Aftermarket 8 on 6. 5 pattern wheels, in my experience, always have the larger center hole opening since neither Chevy nor Dodge are "hub-centric", meaning they do not rely on a tight fit on the center hub to support the wheel, they are "lug-centric" and the lug studs bear the weight. So if you avoid "factory wheels" you won't have the fitment issues as long as you don't get ones with the metric ford pattern.
Since 16. 5s are obsolete, the chances of finding them with metric Ford pattern are very slim anyway. So the older 16. 5 aftermarket mags will generally fit Chevy, Dodge, or Ford from that era.
I have a set of 5 16. 5 wheels on my K30. I had 35" BFG Mud Terrains on them and they fit the truck perfectly. But since the K30 sat for so many years after I bought the diesel dodge, the BFg's were getting rotted and despite having 75% of their tread left, I had to replace them. Since 16. 5 tires must be special ordered at most dealers anymore and are expensive, I bought 5 brand new Goodyear Military OZ tires in that 37" x 16. 5 size. They are terrific tires with very deep and aggressive tread.
But they are 2" too big for my K30 imo. They clear OK except when I turn hard. But I don't want to lift or change anything on that suspension one little bit; I have it dialed in very, very well for ride right now. So I'm going to try trading that set of 37" wheels and tires for some 315x16's or some 35" tires of some sort. I would love to run those wrangler hummer tires, but I'm not changing the truck to make them fit.
These dodges are so weak and poorly designed in the front end that the Death Wobble you experienced with the larger tires is going to be extremely hard to avoid. The bigger tires just magnified a problem you already have developing. Furthermore, if you put 37" highly aggressive tires on the truck and turn that cummins torque loose off-road, you'll quickly discover how weak the wimpy 2-piece CAD axle shafts are, too. (If your truck has that design).
Bottom line is I would not recommend anything larger than stock or maybe up to 33" tires on these dodges without first doing the hub conversion and upgrading the front axle shafts if you're going to put the tires to real use off-road. Even then, you had better have all-new components in your steering. They just can't handle it unless you like death wobble. There's a very good reason why balljoint/CAD dodge dana 60 front axles are the least desirable on the market for off-road build-ups: they're pathetically weak. Nobody building a serious 4x4 wastes their time or money on them, with or without Cummins power.
There's nothing at all wrong with Goodyear Wrangler 37" OZ tires except they are just more than the dodge can handle.
Dodge & Chevy factory steel wheels used to interchange before the 2nd gen Dodges came along with their larger center hub. Fords always had a larger center hub. Then about 10 years ago, Ford went metric on the bolt pattern and are no longer 8 on 6. 5" like Chevy and Dodge.
Aftermarket 8 on 6. 5 pattern wheels, in my experience, always have the larger center hole opening since neither Chevy nor Dodge are "hub-centric", meaning they do not rely on a tight fit on the center hub to support the wheel, they are "lug-centric" and the lug studs bear the weight. So if you avoid "factory wheels" you won't have the fitment issues as long as you don't get ones with the metric ford pattern.
Since 16. 5s are obsolete, the chances of finding them with metric Ford pattern are very slim anyway. So the older 16. 5 aftermarket mags will generally fit Chevy, Dodge, or Ford from that era.
I have a set of 5 16. 5 wheels on my K30. I had 35" BFG Mud Terrains on them and they fit the truck perfectly. But since the K30 sat for so many years after I bought the diesel dodge, the BFg's were getting rotted and despite having 75% of their tread left, I had to replace them. Since 16. 5 tires must be special ordered at most dealers anymore and are expensive, I bought 5 brand new Goodyear Military OZ tires in that 37" x 16. 5 size. They are terrific tires with very deep and aggressive tread.
But they are 2" too big for my K30 imo. They clear OK except when I turn hard. But I don't want to lift or change anything on that suspension one little bit; I have it dialed in very, very well for ride right now. So I'm going to try trading that set of 37" wheels and tires for some 315x16's or some 35" tires of some sort. I would love to run those wrangler hummer tires, but I'm not changing the truck to make them fit.
These dodges are so weak and poorly designed in the front end that the Death Wobble you experienced with the larger tires is going to be extremely hard to avoid. The bigger tires just magnified a problem you already have developing. Furthermore, if you put 37" highly aggressive tires on the truck and turn that cummins torque loose off-road, you'll quickly discover how weak the wimpy 2-piece CAD axle shafts are, too. (If your truck has that design).
Bottom line is I would not recommend anything larger than stock or maybe up to 33" tires on these dodges without first doing the hub conversion and upgrading the front axle shafts if you're going to put the tires to real use off-road. Even then, you had better have all-new components in your steering. They just can't handle it unless you like death wobble. There's a very good reason why balljoint/CAD dodge dana 60 front axles are the least desirable on the market for off-road build-ups: they're pathetically weak. Nobody building a serious 4x4 wastes their time or money on them, with or without Cummins power.
There's nothing at all wrong with Goodyear Wrangler 37" OZ tires except they are just more than the dodge can handle.
it could of been solid rubber. big waste of time and $65 to remove them and dismount the old tires. thank god the tire shop didnt charge me for disposial of all that junk. While I was there though at the shop we noticed that my left outer tie rod was loose. at first thought it it was worn but after removing the cotter pin found the nut was just loose. that is what gave me my wobble. driving the truck now is like a different truck. I also installed the steering brace and a new steering dampiner. all this helped so I feel rather confident that one I have the new rims I can run these tires. everyone out here loves them thats running them. I just took a wrong turn with the H1 rims. I did try and research it here on TDR but got no hits. That is why I posted so someone else could benifit and not make my same mistake.
Simplysmn
TDR MEMBER
Well now that I know theses wheel's are for a first gen I can say this They Won't Fit the front they are too off set and to be honest there are better wheel's out there . what I was talking about on the ring is the first hummer wheel has a 8 bolt ring the newer style wheel's made for the radial's have either a 12 or a 24 bolt outter ring You do not want the Early 8 bolt ring wheel's Because they will not hold up to the weight of the tire or your truck
oh well we didnt know that and we removed the locks and unscrewed the bolts at 180 degrees out. we were then able to remove the halves. didnt know about your way.
HHhuntitall
TDR MEMBER
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