i want to learn to weld...

[rbattelle]

Man, I love welding. It's been 6 months since I welded anything... I'm having withdrawls.

Ryan

 

[Coalsmoke]

Man, I love welding. It's been 6 months since I welded anything... I'm having withdrawls.



Ryan

Well then, better get crackin before the sickness really sets in, a bit of metal fab, bit of weld and some powder coat and you'll have something one-of-a-kind for your truck.

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

I've had a Hobart 180 mig welder for a while and a Lincoln AC Buzz box, a few days ago I got a Miller Maxstar 140 that is brand new and does stick and tig. The Maxstar is a dual voltage machine and can be hooked to 120 or 240 volts. I've got to get a new regulator and an argon bottle for tig but I should be up and running with in a week.



I took the original plug off and put on some 30 amp twist locks so I can make up some jumpers for 120 and 240 volts and basically be able to weld anywhere.

 

[GHarman]

Man, I love welding. It's been 6 months since I welded anything... I'm having withdrawls.



Ryan

Hey Ryan, Saw yer post, Understand the dilemma. I cant afford to have a whole bunch of projects constantly going, so I just put out the word amongst friends that I will do some welding fer them if they have a project going and need a hand. Last summer I was able to do do a bridge 'cross a creek for a friend (all overhead!). And last week burned some rod for another friend on his portable boat pier footers. They did the grunt work and supplied materials, I got to burn rod Oo. . Just a way to keep yer hand/eye coordination up to snuff. GregH

 

[THenningsen]

GregH- I've been practicing my stick welding using 7018 3/32 rod. I saw a welding video a while back and it talked about the puddle being 2 or 3 times the diameter of the width of the rod. My puddle seems to be just slightly bigger than the width of the rod, no matter what I do. I've tried shortening and lengthening the arc, changing the angle, and changing my travel speed. My voltage is set at about 80 amps using DCEP. Any suggestions? Also, people talk about when welding with 7018 rod, the slag curling up on the bead. How is that acheived? I've got to really chip away at mine. Thanks

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

When you are running a bead try doing kind of a circular motion with the end of the rod to get your width. Also the brand of rod is going to have alot to do with the slag left behind, let the weld cool before chipping. With a quality rod the 7018 will peel right back when it cools a little and doesn't really need to be hit only just run the chipping hammer over it in a scraping motion to remove the slag.

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

You guys got me thinking so I went out and ran a couple of beads with my Maxstar 140 plugged into 120 volts running around 85-90 amps with 6013 3/32nd rod. Here are a couple of pictures, please note that I am not a professional, I am self taught and probably do everything wrong but I can make stuff stick and have even welded stuff like 14" pipe at work for a 175 psi firemain header.



My Little lunch box sized Maxstar 140 that I got for $450 and can do TIG with.



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My first two beads with this welder, I haven't stick welded in probably 2 years



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My third bead making a little scrap metal



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[THenningsen]

mine definately don't look that good! Where did you find your maxstar from $450? That's a good price.

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

E-bay, it was brand new never used with only the stick leads, the guy started the bidding at $450 so nobody bid on it. I got a pretty good deal on that one, I'd been watching them on there for months.

 

[Coalsmoke]

GregH- I've been practicing my stick welding using 7018 3/32 rod. I saw a welding video a while back and it talked about the puddle being 2 or 3 times the diameter of the width of the rod. My puddle seems to be just slightly bigger than the width of the rod, no matter what I do. I've tried shortening and lengthening the arc, changing the angle, and changing my travel speed. My voltage is set at about 80 amps using DCEP. Any suggestions? Also, people talk about when welding with 7018 rod, the slag curling up on the bead. How is that acheived? I've got to really chip away at mine. Thanks

Don't get too hung about about the puddle diameter when learning. Depending on position, rod type, and what you're welding, that 2-3 times the diameter of the electrode may or may not hold true.

 

[GHarman]

GregH- I've been practicing my stick welding using 7018 3/32 rod. I saw a welding video a while back and it talked about the puddle being 2 or 3 times the diameter of the width of the rod. My puddle seems to be just slightly bigger than the width of the rod, no matter what I do. I've tried shortening and lengthening the arc, changing the angle, and changing my travel speed. My voltage is set at about 80 amps using DCEP. Any suggestions? Also, people talk about when welding with 7018 rod, the slag curling up on the bead. How is that acheived? I've got to really chip away at mine. Thanks

THenningsen, The width of the puddle at no more than three times the diameter of the rod is a requirement in a Weld Procedure Specification. It has been taught as a rule of thumb when stick welding. Learning to carry the puddle and manipulateing the rod will probably cause you to exceed that width. However, if you exceed that dimension by to much it allows for slag entrapment and lack of fusion issues to plague you. The result of your learning curve is that you should be able to run a bead that is straight and parallel sided. Worry about the three times the rod diameter rule when you get the basics down pat. You should be running stringers first, as I have mentioned before.

You could play with your amperage a little, turn it up and down 5 Amps from where you are to see if the rod runs better. Let the weld cool before chipping. The 7018 slag will have a really nice brown color when the amperage/temperature is just right. Unless your rod is deteriorated or moisture laden. Have you tried warming up your rod a couple of hours before welding, at least to 250*F? I have a second oven in the house so's I dont get crossways with the wife and will bake out 7018 at 400* over night for a weld project the next day. When I was working for the Government, we had strict rod storage guidelines. That included fresh or hotboxed 7018 for any job. Moisture could be sample checked by an engineer.

An old friend of mine made a hot box out of an ammo can and a lightbulb! Better than a sharp stick in the eye!

If you use your kitchen oven, wrap the welding rod in aluminum foil to prevent any contamination from the oven racks to get into the rod coating. Only bake out what you think you will use. Hope this is helpful. GregH

 

[rbattelle]

An old friend of mine made a hot box out of an ammo can and a lightbulb!

I'm building one made from old toaster parts.



Ryan

 

[GHarman]

Turbo Tim 1

Hey bud, I havent run 6013 rod for many years, but your flat beads look good from a tie-in at the toe of the weld and your horizontal fillet does not have any undercut along the toe of the weld. I would say you are on your way Oo. . Just work on the parallelism of the beads and your stops look as though you could fill in a little longer. Try making a pad with interlocking parallel stringers. GregH

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

Greg, Talk to us about verticle welds, I have never been able to do much in that area, I can make them stick but they are ugly. I am defianately a work bench welder

 

[GHarman]

Greg, Talk to us about verticle welds, I have never been able to do much in that area, I can make them stick but they are ugly. I am defianately a work bench welder

I would start running stringers, Always! You have to learn to carry the puddle before weaving a stinger. Rods that are appropriate for this are 6010, 6011, 6013, 7014, 7018 and a host of others. Which rod you use will determine if you use a uphill-downhill/ preheat-deposit method or just a push uphill method. Your beads should be straight, parallel with the toe of the weld fused, no undercut. Undercut indicates that you are moving to fast or you have the wrong rod angle. Concentrate on maintaining a constant arc length unless the situation requires you to lengthen the arc (advanced techniques). The rod angle should be pointed slightly uphill to a 90* angle on flat stock in the vertical position. You drag up and then down to your starting point to initiate the arc. This acts as a sort of preheat for the rod and helps you burn out your starts. Do not start your arc outside the weld zone. That is a metallurgical NO NO. The boss'll get your money, straightaway! On vertical downhill, you can use 6011,6010,6013 and 7014 with no issues. You will be able to use a little more amperage with the rod angled uphill (your stinger holder is lower than the arc end of the rod) on flat stock in the vertical position. The angle can vary with the heat setting. Drag down from your starting point and then back up to the start to initiate the arc. Is this helpful? GregH

 

[Coalsmoke]

There's some good info here. Just wanted to add that generally the easiest progression for learning out of position stick welding is, once you've got flat down pat, move to horizontal, then vertical up, then overhead, then vertical down.

 

[rbattelle]

Undercut indicates that you are moving to fast or you have the wrong rod angle.

Undercut on tee-joints is my biggest problem and the one I'm most concerned with at the moment. I've tried pushing back into the weld to "balloon" the weld puddle to fill in the undercut, but that didn't seem to help.

Can too much current cause undercut?

On Edit:
Okay, I took the time to do some reading. Specifically, Welders Guide, by James E. Brumbaugh (1973).

He says:

Arc Blow is the wavering of the arc from its intended path. It is characterized by undercutting (caused by deflection of the arc), excessive spatter, and poor fusion. [Emphasis added]

We know arc blow is caused by the magnetic fields created during the weld, and Brumbaugh says the best way to prevent arc blow is to use AC welding. Well, duh! But, he goes on to say:

DC may be used, and arc blow considerably reduced, by making a number of adjustments. . . Some suggestions for reducing arc blow to an acceptable minimum are as follows:

1. Weld toward a heavy tack or toward a weld already made.

2. Use back stepping on long welds.

3. Place the ground connection as far from the joint to be welded as possible. On small pieces, place the ground connection at the starting end and weld toward a heavy tack if possible.

4. Hold a short arc so that the electrode coating touches the metal surface and direct the tip of the electrode in the direction opposite that of the arc blow. This enables arc force to counteract the arc blow.

5. Reduce the current.

What's back stepping? I assume it means circling back as you weld.

I thought #3 was interesting, because I thought we were supposed to be placing the ground as close as possible to the weld. That's what I normally do, but will try it farther away and see if that helps.

Trial and error has shown me the effectiveness of a short arc (#4). I have also noticed that welding toward an existing weld or tack seems to improve things (#1).

Regarding reducing the current, I find I can achieve MUCH "nicer" looking welds at lower currents, but I fear my penetration might not be sufficient.

Can any of you pros comment on Brumbaugh's advice? It was written in 1973... is it still relevant today?

Ryan

 

[Coalsmoke]

Chances are you are not suffering arc blow. Only a few times in my career have I encountered arc blow to the point that I had to take significant corrective measures, and most of those times were from welding on material separators (ie. magnetized drums and systems). The largest contributors to undercut are traveling too fast (which doesn't allow proper filling of the weld crater by the molten weld pool), and using too high of a heat range for the material, consumable electrode, and / or operator skill. There is also rod position, and although it is easy to control in most situations, it seems that sometimes when people are starting out in the learning process, once they drop their hood, all sense about rod position goes out the window. All three of these components (plus some) must be there for a successful weld.



About placing the ground clamp further away, the idea behind that being that the smaller the electrical area, the tighter the magnetic field may be, and the stronger the effects of the arc blow. You will also see other solutions such as wrapping the ground lead in a specific direction around the work piece, etc.



Back stepping is usually used to help prevent parent material distortion. If you are welding from point A to point B, instead of laying in a continuous bead which can cause warping (through uneven heating of the parent material edge as compared to the rest of the piece), you can break up the weld into segments, and starting on the B end of the segment, work towards A, so your welding direction is B to A, but the overall progression of the weld is still A to B. I tried to make a crude diagram to help illustrate this. Usually the length of the back steps is from 1-5" depending on the parent material and the length of the overall weld.



A 2<<<<<<<1 4<<<<<<<<<<<3 6<<<<<<<5 B

 

[rbattelle]

Thanks, Coalsmoke! Backstepping looks like something I need to start doing, because I find I often twist my materials up like a pretzel due to the heat of welding.

Ryan

 

[Coalsmoke]

You're welcome. Back-stepping is a good skill to have in the lunch kit, just make sure that you're making good clean starts and stops. Have a good one.