Jake Exhaust Brake Pump Issues

[lebar]

I am at a point to install a exhaust brake on my 2007. Is the pump still an issue? I still have warranty left on the engine and I have not spoken to the dealer about them giving me an issue a pac brake or not.

 

[HBarlow]

The '06 and '07, manual or automatic, could be ordered from Dodge with a Jacobs Exhaust Brake back when they were being built. The eb showed up on the order documentation, invoice, and MSRP but was not actually installed, it was in the shipping carton behind the driver's seat. I ordered an '06 as soon as I learned the Jacobs exhaust brake was available and authorized.

If installed properly the eb will be fully integrated with your engine, transmission, and truck just like factory equipment.

I can't speak for the level of understanding of your dealer but a Jacobs or PacBrake should have no effect on warranty issues. Don't know about others.

 

[AH64ID]

I have 65K miles on my pump and my dad has 75K on his, no issues. I think they had the pump issue fixed in 2007 as the failures are fewer and fewer.

I am planning to buy a new pump this spring and put the old one in the "boonie box", but I am on the preventative side of things.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Skip the Jake, there's just too many pump failures still and there's been no design changes. The PAC works great and actually has more braking power at lower RPMs plus you end up with a compressor that can be used for other things. It also integrates with the trucks systems just as well as the Jake.

 

[HBarlow]

That's an opinion but not necessarily true. The OEM vacuum pump on my '06 failed at less than 100k miles. The second was still going strong when I sold the truck at 230k miles.

 

[AH64ID]

They all provide the same max retarding power, and I am still not sold on the variable brakes as they make more back-pressure than oil pressure at low rpms, and that's a no-no according to Jacobs (may be marketing, but it makes sense from a turbo seal standpoint).

Really I don't recall the last time I read about a vac pump failure.

 

[Shadrach]

One minor thing to be made aware of. With a belt driven pump like the Jacobs the belt is different, so you must carry a spare because if you go and order one from your local parts supply house you will more than likely get the "wrong" one. Shad

 

[Prairie Dog]

That's an opinion but not necessarily true. The OEM vacuum pump on my '06 failed at less than 100k miles. The second was still going strong when I sold the truck at 230k miles.

True thats just an opinion but here's another one; Something like that should last far longer than 100k. After all, the engineer that worked on the Jake for Cummins was on the TDR and justified the high cost of the Jake by saying that the vac pump will last the life of the Cummins. I noticed that when they started failing, he stopped posting here. :-laf

 

[Blu-meanie]

Geno's has the belts, and... . the price has dropped from when they first appeared on the site.

 

[HBarlow]

True thats just an opinion but here's another one; Something like that should last far longer than 100k. After all, the engineer that worked on the Jake for Cummins was on the TDR and justified the high cost of the Jake by saying that the vac pump will last the life of the Cummins. I noticed that when they started failing, he stopped posting here. :-laf

Not really. That engineer was Carlton Bale, a really good guy. He started posting after Cummins/Jacobs told us at the Cummins plant in summer of 2002 that Dodge would authorize use of the Jacobs Exhaust Brake with the new Gen III Rams w/48RE automatics.

He continued posting and keeping us advised during the period when the MOPAR automatic was being tested, limitations were found and corrected.

Finally he was able to announce that ECM memory had been expanded and all the bugs had been removed and the exhaust brake was finally authorized for model year 2006 Rams with 48RE. He probably made the last post then threw his clothes away, took a good shower, and left the TDR.

He politely and professionally tolerated all the whining and abuse heaped on him by owners of 2003 and 2004 Ram owners who wanted to be able to install an exhaust brake on their automatic transmission trucks and wanted Jacobs, Dodge, or the government to buy back their trucks because they could not.

 

[CKelley1]

we run a fleet of dodges and the life of the pump is about 100,000 miles if the pump fails instead of the diaphragm it locks up and brakes the serpentine belt into before you can get stopped, you have to carry a stock belt with you to bypass the pump. the jake is ancient technology and does not have anywhere the stoping power of the bd or pac. when one of our jake's fail we replace it with a bd. we get to see first hand the difference between the jake and a bd or pac on the same truck. we quit using pac because of compressor failures. they were failing because of where they were mounting them, once we relocated them no more failures. i believe they are now mounting them somewhere else. the bd is completely out of the way and the pac and bd does not affect warranty

 

[Prairie Dog]

Not really. That engineer was Carlton Bale, a really good guy. He started posting after Cummins/Jacobs told us at the Cummins plant in summer of 2002 that Dodge would authorize use of the Jacobs Exhaust Brake with the new Gen III Rams w/48RE automatics.



He continued posting and keeping us advised during the period when the MOPAR automatic was being tested, limitations were found and corrected.



Finally he was able to announce that ECM memory had been expanded and all the bugs had been removed and the exhaust brake was finally authorized for model year 2006 Rams with 48RE. He probably made the last post then threw his clothes away, took a good shower, and left the TDR.



He politely and professionally tolerated all the whining and abuse heaped on him by owners of 2003 and 2004 Ram owners who wanted to be able to install an exhaust brake on their automatic transmission trucks and wanted Jacobs, Dodge, or the government to buy back their trucks because they could not.

The fact remains that CB's excuse for the high priced pump was that it "would last as long as the Cummins". That is far from the reality.

He also refused to answer questions regarding why these pumps were failing prematurely.

 

[HBarlow]

Do you make up these bogus accusations as you go along?

Carlton Bale had already stopped posting when the first '06 Rams with Jacobs EBs began going into service. I probably purchased the first one built and even though I immediately put the truck in service transporting and began piling the miles on it was almost a year before I had 100k miles on it and the vacuum pump failed.

Carlton Bale never said a single word on TDR about the vacuum pump lasting and never answered or refused to answer a question regarding the vacuum pump because he dropped from sight as soon as he made the announcement.

Lets see a quote of any of these bogus statements you claim Carlton Bale or any other spokesman for Jacobs Exhaust Brakes ever made on TDR.

 

[Prairie Dog]

The post I refer to was in direct response to my question to him. I'm not going to go back over hundreds of posts to convince you.
So, if your going to stoop to the level of suggesting I'm a liar and you can't have a simple discussion and keep it polite as I have, then I'm done with you. Feel free to post what ever nonsense you like. I will not respond.

 

[Motorhead]

I run the Pac PRXB and am installing one on a friends truck in the next couple of weeks. Mine has been FLAWLESS. I have about 40k on mine. No worries about a belt breaking and losing the power steering and power braking. Any of you guys tried to steer and stop one of our trucks without the power steering pump turning???

 

[HBarlow]

The post I refer to was in direct response to my question to him. I'm not going to go back over hundreds of posts to convince you.
So, if your going to stoop to the level of suggesting I'm a liar and you can't have a simple discussion and keep it polite as I have, then I'm done with you. Feel free to post what ever nonsense you like. I will not respond.

I keyed the name "Carlton Bale" in the Search Forums feature and the last post he ever made in TDR was on 7/21/2005 on page 31 of the very long running thread he started on 07/08/2003 titled: "48RE + Exhaust Brake: Current Status"

https://www.turbodieselregister.com.../76813-48re-exhaust-brake-current-status.html

Here was his last post:

Here is the summary of 48RE / Exhaust Brake options:

MY03-MY04. 5: Not warranty approved; powertrain computer exhaust brake functionality is enabled but no automatic transmission protection.
MY05: Not warranty approved; powertrain computer exhaust brake features completely disabled.
MY06: Warranty approved; full powertrain computer protection/integration w/brake.

It is possible that there will be an update to the MY05 software, but there has been no commitment to do so. It will be many months if it does happen at all. Hope this clarifies things.

I ordered my '06 w/48RE and Jacobs Exhaust Brake in late 2005 and took delivery in early 2006. It seems a bit of a stretch that Carlton was refusing to answer your questions about vacuum pump failure back in 2005 before any were in service but I'll finish this post and go back and search through the old thread.

 

[HBarlow]

Prairie Dog,

I keyed your name, "Prairie Dog" into Carlton Bale's thread several times and the search engine response, each time, was not found.

Perhaps you dreamed you posted a question in Carlton's thread? That would explain why it doesn't appear in the thread and he didn't answer it.

 

[Regcabguy]

I've ridden in trucks with either eb. I felt the Pacbrake was more aggressive. My buddy ordered the Jake for warranty purposes,but the pump died @ 38K. Replacement from Cummins was about $235 I believe.



The Pacbrake was installed with an air tank feature which would be handy.

 

[HBarlow]

Yeah, PacBrake claims their brake creates more back pressure below a certain rpm. I haven't ridden in one so can't confirm or deny their claim.

Effectiveness of exhaust braking depends a lot on differential gearing of the truck much like load starting. A 4. 10 geared truck will slow more aggressively with an exhaust brake than a 3. 73 or 3. 54 geared truck.

My failed vacuum pump was about $135 from a Cummins dealer back in 2006. I don't know how they're priced now.

 

[AH64ID]

The Jacobs hits peak retarding power at appox 2300-2500 rpms, depending on elevation and exhaust temp.



There are plenty of times where the Jake is too much retarding power and the EB cycles more often than I would like. Something that has more power in the 1600-2000 range would be cycling too much for my liking.



I have never not had enough braking power and can downshift if needed.

I ordered my '06 w/48RE and Jacobs Exhaust Brake in late 2005 and took delivery in early 2006. It seems a bit of a stretch that Carlton was refusing to answer your questions about vacuum pump failure back in 2005 before any were in service but I'll finish this post and go back and search through the old thread.

The pump was in service before the MY06 trucks, it has always been approved for use on a manual transmission truck.