2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Locking Hubs!!!

[PRout]

Now it's my turn..

Just came across this thread while doing a search for this exact problem, that I'm experiencing during a new install now (8 Years after the posts above - I would hope there is a fix by now or why would the kits still be sold?) Going back in for a 3rd seal next week - Haven't been able to put 20 miles on the truck in 4x4 since the original install and none of that has been stressful to the drivetrain. Right axle leaks as soon as it goes into 4wd w/ hubs locked. 3rd, 200 mile trip each way for this problem. Didn't leak with the original setup. This is a farm truck and sees 70% dirt roads, requires 4wd about 20% of that - and it gets babied as much as possible).

Am just curious if there was ever a fix or positive outcome. . It's a very expensive upgrade, to have this inconvenience. Took no known shortcuts and even went with the more expensive Dynaloc hubs and 35 spline inner axles.

Not badmouthing anyone. The installer is reputable and providing me great customer service, they are working with Dynatrac to resolve the problem.

We all know stuff happens. It's what they do about it that is what matters. Again, the installer has treated me as good as it gets. I wonder what their experience with Dynatrac is going to be after reading several different customer's comments about their customer service...

I'm not sure where the new right axle seal is located, but I hope it's outside of there the vent tube is. I checked and the vent flows fine.

The only reasonable thing I can think of is that is one of the first axles of a new run. Maybe it's out of spec, or possibly not straight from handling damage. Other than that I would hate to think it is flexing and taking out the seals.

Any comments are appreciated - Thanks in advance.
Phil

 

[GBaines]

I finally got then to stop leaking!

After consulting with Dynatrac, I made an attempt to replace the inner seal myself and was successful. I had to replace the rotors and pads, so I had the hub all apart and carefully cleaned the whole area. I removed the seal, which showed it had been damaged on installation of the axil shaft, by a very competent shop. I made my own tool for carefully seating the seal in place, with sockets and short sections of tubing to insure it was very well centered and seated. Then with the help of a friend, we reinstelled the axil shaft very very very carefully! I had it completely greased and used wedges to insure that it was centered as it was inserted. With my hand in the hole for the old(eliminated) enguagement motor, I carefully eased the the end of the shaft through the seal and held it parallel to the axil tube until it enguaged with the carrier. My friend made sure that the weight of the outer shaft did not bear on the seal. Wedges were used to keep the shaft centered until the outer bearing and seal of the hub could support the shaft. Appearantly the weight of the axil shaft can distort the seal and cause a leak, so it must be supported and centered at all times during installation! I have use 4x4 a number to times since and it has not leaked for at least 8 months now. I am presently in southern Mexico and have put the truck to some heavy use, with no leaky seal!! Good luck

 

[PRout]

Wow, Great info - Thanks! Makes sense. . I'm going to pass your install method along to the installer. . Will report back.
Thanks Again,
Phil

 

[HHhuntitall]

Having fought this for over 10 years, running a LOT of offroad miles, let me make a suggestion... . http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sit-eas2-05

 

[WilsonF]

this old post has gone from installing locking hubs to leaking seals, to bring it back to the hubs I did the mod to my 96 2500 with Ford Dana 50/60 parts for around $300 thats with new rotors, bearing and races and the locking hubs.

Floyd

 

[KB0OU]

I put SpynTech on my truck a few years ago. No problems with it and I love it..... http://spyntec.com/

Just have to remember to lock the hubs before I get to the slick stuff.



The axle seals are not part of the kit. Best to replace them when the kit is installed, or later when they leak... .

 

[PRout]

Follow-up:

Thanks for everyone's good input. My apologies for veering the thread from "Hubs" to "Axle seals".

The fix to my Dynatrac 35 Spline, right side axle seal leak was pretty much as GBaines suggested. Extremely careful installation, combined with an upgraded seal form Dana. The installer needed to take . 027" off the axle surface in order to use the Dana seal. They carefully re-installed through the new seal, and knock on wood, it's still holding after some reasonable 4x'ing and hauling heavy loads up a slippery hill in a farm environment.

I've heard that Dynatrac is going to go ahead and make this improvement to all of these kits in the future, but that is second hand info for what it's worth. This is not a knock on Dynatrac's quality because the workmanship on this product is as nice as it gets. Maybe there is a variation in axle tubes, especially since it replaces 2 axles on the right side with one long axle (eliminating the CAD) and maybe due to the extra material used to house the CAD assy, there is more likelihood of having more flex at that point than usual (all guesswork on my part as I am just hypothesizing).

But I am now extremely pleased with the improvement of the on and off-road manners of the drivability of the truck. Not sure of the fuel mileage increase on the highway yet as I haven't had much chance to calc that, but it does roll easier and average boost at cruise is lower. There has to be some increase in mpg. The truck's steering wander is gone and drives much nicer. By adding the truetrac in the back surprised me as far as on road driving goes. I had no idea that it would steer straighter after shifting gears (must have been torque steering before), because I found myself compensating the steering (by habit) for no reason anymore. Off-road, it's a beast. Crawls over stuff that it used to get stuck in. Pulls others out of being stuck by using low and just letting it idle them out. Recently pulled another dodge cummins 4x out of the soft stuff on my entrance road that the driver had buried himself down to the diffs. One of the observers' words was "Man, that truck has balls". I didn't even touch the go pedal. . Touchdown!

I now return You to Your regularly scheduled topic - Manual Locking Hubs

Thanks again, especially to GBaines for Your insight. .
Phil

 

[PRout]

Leaking Again. . Will be returning the truck for the 3rd time. Again, the installer has been superb in their support.

Where's Dynatrac??

Seems like both, the installer and I did not do very well on the decision to use Dynatrac's Inner Axle Kit.

We cut no corners, I bought "The Best", not much support from the Mfg. Seems the installer got stuck doing the R&D work.

One of the main selling points of this kit is "No or little down time due to reliability". This is the longest my truck has been down.

Where's the Mfg's support? Big money to make the truck less reliable??

Tune in next week. .

 

[JKosten]

So have you checked to see if your axle is straight?

I made a seal installing tool from two bearing race installers and a section of 5/8" threaded rod. Worked great go install.

I also replaced the CAD with a one piece from ZBAG.com.

 

[PRout]

Having fought this for over 10 years, running a LOT of offroad miles, let me make a suggestion... . http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sit-eas2-05

HHhuntitall, Thank You Kindly for your suggestion. I passed it on to the installer. .
-Phil

 

[EDankievitch]

SpynTec now offers a shorty hub kit, it doesn't stick out as far as the older kits. I've installed both the Dynatraxx and Spyntec kits they all work well.

 

[PRout]

So have you checked to see if your axle is straight?

I made a seal installing tool from two bearing race installers and a section of 5/8" threaded rod. Worked great go install.

I also replaced the CAD with a one piece from ZBAG.com.

Yes, the axle has been put on a lathe and verified for trueness.
Also have verified the entire axle tube assy is straight.
This last time it appeared good for several weeks until, I believe it may have started leaking after i pulled a 5k lb load of hay (total, including trailer) up an 8% dirt/sand/rocky hill, in 4wd, 1st gear high (taking it easy enough to not drop any hay off the back). The other times, it leaked within a few miles after locking the hubs.

It would be kinda nice since the Mfg is only 20 miles away, to take some initiave and at least go take a look. . Ideally, they could assist in solving the problem, especially since these axles are the first from a new production run. (waited 2 months for the blanks to come in - is what i was told from Dynatrac when waiting).

Instead, their response is "The axle tube must be bent". - Response: It didn't leak before, and if it is bent, it's not enough to detect while its mounted on the truck.

Think ill refrain from any more speculating and let the specialists do their thing.

I still have confidence that Dynatrac's reputation for being "The Best", is valid. .

All input has been appreciated. . (and patience - Ha!)

 

[DGamelin]

I had a customer that couldn't stop that seal from leaking, he replaced the seal twice. I don't remember if it was a bearing or a bushing but I replaced the one that supports the outter part of the inner shaft and a new collar that was the end of his seal problems, good luck.

I have spyntec on my dully no problens.

__________________________

93 250 2wd xc 354 auto 307k

04. 5 3500 4wd cc dully 373 6speed 173

 

[PRout]

Yeah, I rec'd a suggestion that a bronze bushing out at the end of the axle tube would probably solve the problem. .
(but of course I'm not speculating or anything

 

[JKosten]

I don't remember if it was a bearing or a bushing but I replaced the one that supports the outter part of the inner shaft and a new collar that was the end of his seal problems, good luck.

The inner axle has a plastic spacer that supports it. The outer shaft has to be removed and then the inner. Then the plastic bushing has to knocked into the CAD housing to be removed.

 

[HHhuntitall]

Yeah, the axle shaft will change center of rotation while in the housing if the shafts are not perfectly the right length... . Even then, they'll move some, just that the U-joint is only bi-directional. I've installed many sets of Dynatrac, and have two sets myself. I've never had any problems with the '03+ trucks, but the earlier years, it seems the earlier the truck, the more problems there are... . I'm speculating there is a slight axle length variance to blame, or a ball joint offset. In rotation, the U-joint is not directly under the centers of the ball joints, so when it turns, the whole shaft has to move some to compensate. In using the '02 shafts to replace the CAD assembly, the shaft is around 5/16" too long, bottoming out in the carrier... . on some.



I've also installed the Spyntec kits on Jeeps and Dodges, and had great service from them. I actually like them better for the ABS design is superior to anything on the market, fully protected from the elements, unlike the Dynatrac. I've had great service from Spyntec, as well, and while I have no complaints for dynatrac, I can't say that for my customers... .



The seals-it kit I linked at Summit has a very forgiving, dual-lip, design. Initially, I thought they were a bit cheap and flunky looking, but after installing several, I recommend them to everyone... . And the labor is way less than half vs. trying to pull the inspection plate and diff to get to the driver side seal. I've even got two installed on my own ranch trucks, that run off-road almost every day, feeding cows and fencing. One has 4yrs and 50k+ miles on it, and hasn't leaked yet... . So far, so good.

 

[PRout]

Good stuff - Thanks for the observations! Glad You're having good luck with Yours. . I'm right behind Ya my friend.

 

[VEscudero]

After consulting with Dynatrac, I made an attempt to replace the inner seal myself and was successful. I had to replace the rotors and pads, so I had the hub all apart and carefully cleaned the whole area. I removed the seal, which showed it had been damaged on installation of the axil shaft, by a very competent shop. I made my own tool for carefully seating the seal in place, with sockets and short sections of tubing to insure it was very well centered and seated. Then with the help of a friend, we reinstelled the axil shaft very very very carefully! I had it completely greased and used wedges to insure that it was centered as it was inserted. With my hand in the hole for the old(eliminated) enguagement motor, I carefully eased the the end of the shaft through the seal and held it parallel to the axil tube until it enguaged with the carrier. My friend made sure that the weight of the outer shaft did not bear on the seal. Wedges were used to keep the shaft centered until the outer bearing and seal of the hub could support the shaft. Appearantly the weight of the axil shaft can distort the seal and cause a leak, so it must be supported and centered at all times during installation! I have use 4x4 a number to times since and it has not leaked for at least 8 months now. I am presently in southern Mexico and have put the truck to some heavy use, with no leaky seal!! Good luck

Hello GBaines, are you still in Mexico? I am in Acapulco.

 

[PRout]

In using the '02 shafts to replace the CAD assembly, the shaft is around 5/16" too long, bottoming out in the carrier... . on some. .

Bingo?

If the right inner axle is too long, would it explain the slightly less turning radius available to the right while off-road in 4wd?
That is the first thing I noticed on the first off-road drive was that I lost a little bit of right turn ability before you feel the U-Joint maxing out and feeding back to the steering wheel. No noticeable change on the left. If the right is binding up from being too long, wouldn't that be pretty hard on the seal? (and everything else on that side? - But not speculating though. .

Would be nice if they could just shorten the spline end by 3/8", or whatever.

 

[HHhuntitall]

Bingo?



If the right inner axle is too long, would it explain the slightly less turning radius available to the right while off-road in 4wd?

That is the first thing I noticed on the first off-road drive was that I lost a little bit of right turn ability before you feel the U-Joint maxing out and feeding back to the steering wheel. No noticeable change on the left. If the right is binding up from being too long, wouldn't that be pretty hard on the seal? (and everything else on that side? - But not speculating though. .



Would be nice if they could just shorten the spline end by 3/8", or whatever.

Very likely, and I cut these off with a lathe about 5/16"..... Well, I used a chop saw on the last one... . I was a long ways from my shop.....