Low Boost

[SShafranko]

You got me there Tom. Electronics are above my pay grade I am not very knowlidgable when it comes to that but I am learning quickly.



I have been in limp mode when my map sensor burned out and it is nothing like the problem we have. You know when you are in limp mode the truck doesn't have any power whatsoever. You can barely get to 30mph on flat ground.



I have a recent diesel power magazine with a ford truck converted to a cummins engine 03 motor. They put it on the dyno once completed and found that it was running at 62 % load. Ryan from Beans diesel was doing the tuning and he said that the ECM was probably missing a signal somewhere and running on a default fueling table. I am going to call them tomorrow and see what they found. Hopefuly they will be willing to share thheir findings. I will let you know what they say but it seems to be a very similllar situation as us.



I load tested my batteries yesterday and at 250amps for 25 seconds they held 11 volts. At 300 amps they held at arround 10. 8 volts. It was in the green according to the tester but what do you think about those values? I am under the impression that as long as they held at that value and didn't drop they are ok but imvnot sure if the voltage is high enough or where it should be.

 

[TomJohnston]

That is exactly what my truck feels like. Up to a certain rpm I can tell the difference between power levels from the Smarty or the Bullydog Powerpup, but at around 2300-2400 rpm it is like it switches to a default map and I get stock or less duration. I can even watch my rail pressure go from 22,000psi at 2200rpm (demand on fuel) to 25,000psi at 2500rpm (less demand on fuel). The truck switches to a default map and is just not fueling anymore even though the rail pres is good.



I found an old thread by Smokin 5. 9l (cummins forum) and he had the same exact problem. I don't remember what fixed it and have pm'd him for an answer.



Batteries sound like they are OK to me but I am not an expert on batteries. I just assume if I can start the vehicle and the alternator is working everthing should be good. I know that is not always the case with diesels and all the electronics but I would think that there would be a CEL if things got too bad, maybe not.



I am really trying to get more info on all the things effected by the Can C Bus but am finding very little info other than the Tipm.



Good luck, Tom J.

 

[TomJohnston]

Sasha, I have a Quadzilla Adrenaline and Pulse V2 on the way. It can stretch the injection pulse width and manipulate the Can Bus fueling, it also will display load %. It may be able to overide the ECM and force the right duration, if not it will at least display a lot of useful info and datalog it for better troubleshooting. I feel optimistic that I can get to the bottom of our mutual problem using this system. I know that quad products get bashed alot but for the price and capabilities I think this may be extremely useful. I'll keep you posted, Tom J.

 

[SShafranko]

Sounds good, thanks Tom. On my end i called Beans Diesel today and Ryan the person who was handling the truck which had the similar problem to ours was out to lunch. I left my info and they are suppose to call me back by tomorrow. If i don't hear from them i will call them back tomorrow. I'll keep you posted also.

 

[SShafranko]

Tom i spoke to Ryan at Beans Diesel and he tryed to help and stayed on the phone with me for a while which i was suprised at. Nice guy but the outcome was nothing. He said that all conversions they do when they install the 03, 04 motors they always for some reason run at 60 percent load and they can't figure out why but they still get a lot of horse power out of them. The 600 series motors run at 100 and sometimes 120 and more percent load according to the scanner/dyno. So back to square one for me.



Could my brand new turbo have a problem? Such as maybe the wastegate actuator is faulty?



I noticed since i installed the new ECM my engine does not cut out any more at high rpm and my egt's keep climbing when my boost is maxed out at 35psi as before the egt's stopped with the boost.



Ryan also told me that they have had some luck with the TST modules overriding the stock ECM fuel programming. I don't know how true that is because i don't have any experience with TST's product.



I think i am going to remove my turbo and have it tested somehow, somewhere? At the very least i am going to check the waste gate actuator and flap to make sure it is sealing properly.



Any ideas on how i can test my turbo?

 

[TCDiesel]

I would Pinch the Boost hose with a plastic clamp ( be careful ). before removing the unit. Maybe you already have try it?

 

[TomJohnston]

I got a pm back from the guy who had a similar problem to ours. He installed 120hp injectors and now is happy. Because the injectors flow more per injector pulse your boost and performance will go up but it is just a workaround not a fix. The Quad Adrenaline box I ordered should work similar to the TST and i am hoping it will stretch the injector pulse beyond whatever this default MAP is doing. If you can get your hands on a Edge Juice, Quad Adr or TST to test it, it might just overide or fool the ECM into behaving, because it will manipulate the signal before it gets to the ECM.



There is only one well known and respected diesel shop in Oregon (Source Automotive) and it is 5 hours away. I don't really have any way to get my truck to them for a week to fix it.



I have had 3 turbos on my truck and they all did the same thing so unless I am the most unlucky guy on the planet (not impossible) it isn't very likely that it is the turbo. I can also make up to 48psi in fourth gear if I lug it below 2300rpm, which is where the defueling starts, above 2300rpm I can get 40psi tops.



I haven't given up yet but my frustration level is at an all time high. I wish the stealership had competent mechanics, they have all the right equipment to diagnose this in about an hour.



Good Luck, Tom J.

 

[cerberusiam]

Load percentage is a calculated output the ECU is deriving from its inputs, its just not a good judge of what is actually going on. The 03-04 engines crank out 900-1000 hp at 70% load, tis not a valid number.



Some of the reason for it is the Cummins tunes that are loaded into the early ECU's, the 600 series engines are all Dodge modified so the output parameters have evidently been tweaked to read closer to the truth.



Don't know about testing your turbo but swapping to stocker might help detemrine if it is the issue. There aren't a whole lot, if any, valid tests to absolutely detemrine a turbo is "bad". Too many variables in design to definitively say there is a problem.



Unless of course its puking oil or has its guts hanging out. :-laf



Waiting and watchig to see what you finally come up with for a solution.

 

[TCDiesel]

TomJohnston,Have you replaced the IC? I am way out I this One But I believe this is going to be some how related to the IC.

 

[SShafranko]

Well iam sure of one thing: my truck is definitely behaving diferently, for the better. I believe my fuel issues have been resolved for the most part.



When I purchased this turbo from xtreme diesel we looked at the box and deecided to check the contents of the box on the internet for some reason. I forgot why but I think the box looked like it was opened and the contents moved around. Everything was there so I didn't think anything of it. Now I wonder if this turbo had been returned by somebody and I've been duked. Ill get to the bottom of it tomorrow.



Todd pinching the wastegate will tell me if the actuator is working properly. It will not help me if the butterfly is not sealing properly or stuck open for some reason, am I right? Not sure I think I'm thinking correctly though. If I pull the turbo out will I be able to move the wg flap back and forth by hand to test it?



Tom my next stepwas to pick up a set of 50hp injectors and a cam. I'm kinda looking to iincresse milege as much as possible and I read that that combo works well for milege. Correct me if I'm wrong someone.

 

[SShafranko]

Tom have you checked out your ECM yet?

 

[TomJohnston]

I have done everything I can do to check the ECM. The next step would be to order a replacement from the same place you got yours. I am going to see if this Quad Adrenaline can overide the defueling and if that doesn't work maybe try a TST box. If neither of those things work I will buy a new/refurbished ECM but since it didn't work for you I am afraid I will be throwing my money away.



Todd, I wish it was an IC problem because i have had my eye on a new ATS subzero. However I can actually see my rail pressure increase dramatically as the truck defuels above 2300rpm. Can't connect the dots between that and a IC problem. It is definetly an injector pulse width problem. Thanks, Tom J.

 

[SShafranko]

I went to the dealer and had the truck on the star scanner. That is where I found out that my ecm was bad. It cost me $145 for the diagnosis. If you have a missing or corrupt signal to the ecm all the ecms in the world won't solve the problem. I would definitely give ther star scanner a chance though. You may get lucky and stumble upon a good mechanic who's delt with a similar issue. Never mind

 

[TCDiesel]

I will tell how wired the new electronics are on PCI. Good customer was having complete momentary instrument loss, 03 Chev D-Max,I was going to replace the IC but did not have time to replace it,The owner complained that it was cranking slower,so I just replaced the Batteries,Guess what the IC momentary loss has not returned AFTER replacing the two batteries, that was 12 months ago. some issues just cannot be approached logically.

 

[TomJohnston]

Sorry Todd, thought you meant intercooler. You have any idea what an instument cluster would cost?

 

[SShafranko]

Sorry Todd, thought you meant intercooler. You have any idea what an instument cluster would cost?

If you search posts i remember someone naming a company that rebuilds them for somewhere around $170 i think including shipping and warranties them for 2 years i believe. It may even be in this post. lol

 

[AH64ID]

The other thing is that LOAD as reported by the ECM thru the OBDII port is FCA %age, not injector %age.

 

[TomJohnston]

Guys is there any way to get my hands on a manual that will explain all these electronics. I am very clear on how the engine works but Can Bus communications, PCI and all the additional modules makes it very hard to get a good overall picture of what all the ECM is looking at. I do computers, networking and electronic troubleshooting for a living but trucks are a whole different beast, I can't just go down to Barnes and Noble and get Diesel Electronics Troubleshooting for Dummies. I really need schematic of the entire electronics and communications systems within the truck. I am sure that the dealership techs have got to have something like this hanging on the wall or in a maintenance manual. Thanks, Tom J.

 

[SShafranko]

Any ideas as to why my idle would be hanging up in between shifts and when i rev it at idle? Today out of all days it is doing it a lot and taking the longest it ever has to come back down. It just so happens that my a/c stopped working today also. The clutch will not engage when i push the button. Coincidence? Is the A/C pressure sensor on the same circuit as something that has to do with fueling?

 

[cerberusiam]

Guys is there any way to get my hands on a manual that will explain all these electronics.

Good luck on that unless you have a friend at Dodge. That is proprietary stuff and tough to get. The way they worked that I think the engineering department is the only source for anything meaningful around the inputs and expected values. Everything else is reverse engineering.

Is the A/C pressure sensor on the same circuit as something that has to do with fueling?

Not on the same circuit but noise introduced thru the AC circuit can definitely mess with the engine controls. Have you checked the wires from the compressor down to the harnes to see if possibly a wire is rubbing on a line or clamp?