Moog front suspension and steering parts

[bobmette]

I am gathering parts to to overhaul the front end on my 2006 3500 DRW 4WD. I will install 35.1" Toyo Open Country ATII and lift 2" as part of a camper build and also change from DRW to SRW. I want 4.5-5 degrees of + caster when finished. My question is should I purchase Moog Problem Solver K7448 with the adjustable 1 degree caster/camber or Moog K7460 problem Solver without the adjust ability? Will I be able to get the 4.5-5 degrees of caster without the adjust ability?

 

[seafish]

FWIW, over the years I have read MORE then several thread of drivability (or undrivabilty, as the case may be) problems being caused by the install of Moog adjustable ball joints. My advice is to stay away from them and find another way to solve your problem.

 

[TFucili]

I had Moog non-adjustables put in my '05 when the OEM ball joints wore out, and was disappointed with how the truck drove and tracked afterward. Short of going to Carli or something else expensive, I wished I had just used OEM again.

 

[AEdelheit]

Dynatrac makes a good ball joint, Moogs are not what they used to be. You can get 5 deg of castor but you shouldn't need that much, on 3rd gens when you lift them you increase castor, if you need more then what the eccentric bolts will allow you have much bigger issues and horrible pinion angles.

 

[EDankievitch]

The job it a real pain and after having done it twice on my 05. Installing Moog the first time and finding the steering binding making the truck almost un driveable. I went with Carli for the uppers as at the time they did not make the lowers. I had Dynatrax for the lowers the combo worked well for over 120,000 miles. Carli are lifttime units. Unless you've bent something you don't need an adjustable ball joint. Adjustable link arms and track bar only if you've lifted over 2". There is a company XKF that now makes a ball joint that is very much a full copy of the Carli upper in their extream duty line. They look and the price is not bad. I have a set on the shelf waiting for when my 2013 needs them and will report how they when I do install them.
When you lift our trucks the way the link arm work they increase the caster. Some people like the extra caster I find that much after 5 degrees positive the truck want to follow the crown of the road too much and your always fighting it.
I got off base here... Don't waste your time or money on Moog ball joints on our Diesel trucks they just are not up to the task.

 

[bobmette]

Doesn't sound like Moog is the answer, Carli and Dyantrac are very expensive, how about XRF? Has anyone used XRF and how much do they cost? Is it worth the premium for Carli over Dyantrac? This sure is a tough decision. Thanks for your comments and experience, I'm a newbie, I will spring for Carli if you all tell me this is the best value.

 

[bobmette]

What tie rod ends and sway bar links? Are Moog tie rod ends also poor? What should I use for tie rod ends and sway bar links?

 

[seafish]

Doesn't sound like Moog is the answer, Carli and Dyantrac are very expensive, how about XRF? Has anyone used XRF and how much do they cost? Is it worth the premium for Carli over Dyantrac? This sure is a tough decision. Thanks for your comments and experience, I'm a newbie, I will spring for Carli if you all tell me this is the best value.

The XRF are an exact copy of the Carlis, but WITHOUT the extensive metallurgy R&D that Carli performed and perfected. I have read of people having issues with the XRF ball-points NOT lasting long at all. If you cannot afford the DynaTracs or Carlis, then the next best thing are the Raybestos "PROFESSIONAL" series balljoints. Pretty sure that you can find them even on Amazon, just be sure to get the PRO series, not the oem series. BTW, I installed Carlis on my truck…VERY satisfied with them…zero problems so far.

 

[seafish]

What tie rod ends and sway bar links? Are Moog tie rod ends also poor? What should I use for tie rod ends and sway bar links?

While I normally do not like to buy BD products, I was very impressed with the design and robustness of their sway bar end links. I think they are better then the MAXX links, which are another brand that many people use. Genos has them for a fair price and some others as well.

http://www.genosgarage.com/BD-SWAY-...00-00-09/productinfo/BD-1032050/#.VQOgzN7lOM4

http://www.genosgarage.com/MAXX-LINKS-SWAY-BAR-LINKS-03-05-4WD/productinfo/SMX-1226/#.VQOhJN7lOM4

 

[AEdelheit]

Do not use any knurled joints like the XRF, makes it very difficult to go back to a good ball joint. McQuay-Norris makes a good BJ for the money.

 

[cerberusiam]

Set the caster to the minimum it drives good an does not want to follow the road crown or tracks and wander. What setting will depend on the tires. It could be 3 degrees or 4.5 degrees, you have to drive and adjust to find the sweet spot for a combination. Run a slittle caster as possible to sve the wheel bearings and tires.

The problem with the stock style BJ's is the vertical play in them and too much caster on certian tires. You ar ebetter off with something like the McQuay Norris extreme duty BJ's, can be had as Raybestion Professional grade. You have to go to the 1/2 degree offset to get the solid ball and not the stupid floating pin. Set offset to the back for more caster then adjust the cams for final position. Don't try to offset the cams, make them even per side or yoi bind the suspension. If you have a lot of miles replacing the washers, bolts, and unts on the lower control arm is a good idea. They wear and won't stay after so long.

The 2" leveling blocks or springs are not too bad on the angles but they definitely will find bad tires and you DW a lot easier.

 

[Deleted member 995608]

Do not use any knurled joints like the XRF, makes it very difficult to go back to a good ball joint. McQuay-Norris makes a good BJ for the money.

Agreed about the knurlings. I went through 5 sets of upper - lower ball joints while I still owned my old 04.5. The knurlings widened the opening. For the 5th set, I tried a different brand with smooth body's and could literally press in the joints by hand so I ended up putting the knurled version back in.

 

[Crunch]

I had Moog non-adjustables put in my '05 when the OEM ball joints wore out, and was disappointed with how the truck drove and tracked afterward. Short of going to Carli or something else expensive, I wished I had just used OEM again.

That's not good to hear. I just had my entire front suspension rebuilt and they used Moog parts. I don't have a 4X4, so maybe they'll do alright.

 

[jhenderson]

I had poor luck with XRF joints. Went with DYNATRAC.

 

[Regcabguy]

Agreed about the knurlings. I went through 5 sets of upper - lower ball joints while I still owned my old 04.5. The knurlings widened the opening. For the 5th set, I tried a different brand with smooth body's and could literally press in the joints by hand so I ended up putting the knurled version back in.

Dynatrac offers a knurled version.
I just had Dynatrac's installed. Quite tight initially but they are loosening up nicely.
Way better on rough roads now. No more metallic feel through the steering wheel.

 

[brods]

Years ago put Moog ball joints on the truck and it drove terrible. Moog knew there was an issue and refunded the purchase price, but didn't say what the problem was. Someone on TDR got Moog to refund the installation costs, but that was before the problem became pervasive. Put in XRF non greasable regular lower ball joints and they have been fine for several years now. Also had installed the Moog "problem solver" sway bar links which didn't hold up any better than the stock links. Imho Moog is now in average product quality category and there is no reason to pay a premium for average quality parts.

.... If you have a lot of miles replacing the washers, bolts, and unts on the lower control arm is a good idea. They wear and won't stay after so long. ......

The factory manual requires replacement of the bolts and nuts anytime they are removed, but do they really wear based on miles traveled??

 

[Deleted member 995608]

Dynatrac has two versions, both knurled and smooth body? I wonder if the two have the same diameter?

 

[AEdelheit]

The factory manual requires replacement of the bolts and nuts anytime they are removed, but do they really wear based on miles traveled??

Ive reused the factory bolts many times, If they get rusted in place or after about the 5th time out I replace them, if they come out easy I wouldn't worry about it

 

[cerberusiam]

The factory manual requires replacement of the bolts and nuts anytime they are removed, but do they really wear based on miles traveled??

Miles is just a convenient way to identify replacement because they may have been loosened\tightened X times. If you never loosen them in 200k then they are probably fine. If you do it 5 times in 50k they need replaced. When they start loosening and walking out on their own is a good indication. These front ends take a beating so it has to be watched.

 

[brods]

Got it. Thanks for the explanation.