New Lockup Torque Converters

[Cummins Corvette]

dramer- I am on your side here. What did I say that offended you?

 

[dramer]

Originally posted by CAnderson

dramer- I am on your side here. What did I say that offended you?

You have been great and very helpful. We want to help anybody that needs info. The comment that I made about ripping on others was not directed at you at all. If anyone needs anything please feel free to call and ask for Don or Clint at

303-431-7973

We are not trying to hide anything at all.

 

[Stranger]

What the ForK?

I posted a question in an earlier thread about auto trannies and the first person who posted was Bill K. He responded with FREE advice and no hard sell and no smart A$$ remarks. (BTW I bought Bill's trans because of his responses and help, get the picture, hint, hint?)

I posted a question earlier in this thread and got no response, am I freakin' invisible here, or is there no answer to my questions?

 

[446]

I have been to ATS. They are just down the street from me. I have met both of these guys,( I was looking for a Chevy truck trans) and they seemed to be informative, freindly, and willing to give all the information I could ask for. They have a very nice shop and seemed to have more buisness than they could handle. (all trucks)

I dont have $3000. 00 to spend on my trans right now but

I'd like a new converter and I would go back and at least take a look if only because they are close and could provide me with service if I needed it.



To ATS I would say "do a search on Bill K's posts from the earley days" This is a tough bunch and he pretty much had to fight his way in here to get a foothold. Since then he has become king of the trans but there are always new inovations, so, you may just be the next big thing, but you will have to prove it

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Thanks guys!

Although there is a little mud sliging going on you'll are asking some real good questions and making some rocks(like me) understand what this stuff is all about!



Jim(trying to understand)

 

[azgearpro]

No Fred is not running all this at the same time, he is expermenting with all of the above. See he hasent yet decided what mods on the engine he wants to go with, that is why he is expermenting. He has time to do this because one thing on his truck that he is sure about and is the best, is the transmission.

 

[carhauler]

I think that this bashing is ridiculous,

I joined this website to get informed on new products and information about the truck I own . The first thread that I read on this topic was from Kgoode who had gotten the new ATS converter installed and was trying to voice his pleasure with it and to give some info on the product , Which I'm sure most everyone on this website welcomes , I know I do.



The thing I don't understand completely is the third degree that Kgoode got from a few people, which sounded like an undeserved bashing for ATS from the start . I feel that people should keep an open mind to new products, We buy things every day that are outdated or " new and improved " even the smallest thing ,( ie: Tide vs tide with bleach, or the 800 mhz computer you bought 6 months ago and the 1. 5 ghzJust came out for the same price) I am glad that tide came out with a new product it gets the stains out better but I wasnt mad that I had just purchased 5 gallons of regular tide when the new stuff came out, Nor did the new Tide enhance Quality of life for me, It just gets the grease out which only my girlfriend cares about.



So with this said maybe some of this stems from buyers remorse or even sellers remorse but who really cares right. I would just like to see the new products here get a fair chance and not be run off as soon as they are introduced.



Oh if your work jeans ever look cleaner than usual maybe your girlfriend or wife has Bombed the detergent .



Just my humble opinion



JIm

 

[Fred Swanson]

And yes, the questions are still unanswered. If you go back and re-read my post, and the quotes your company rep's made, there are still no responses to the questions. Others have asked questions, and yet still no answers.

Oh and yes, "CAPS" means yelling, if you didn't know already, and I do not see where I have done any of that, but Clint you have.



If I ask these same questions over the phone, are you going to feel you're being grilled?



I'm not flaming your product, but I did see some discrepencies in your statements, and I'm trying to get them cleared up. And no answers yet.



That is what this forum is for. People ask questions about new products. So please don't feel I'm flaming, because I am not, I'm merely asking questions about your product and your claims.



I run different combinations on my truck, because I am trying to help my customers decide what is best for them. The statement about under 40 in town was in relation to stator efficiency, not lockup, because you're not in lockup.



Right now I have the HX-40 w/14cm housing, DD3's, Hot Comp and the 91% DTT converter, just to clear that up for you.



I'm speaking of the direct drive front clutch, or 3rd gear clutch. The one you mentioned you add a disc to, just like DTT.

 

[RustyJC]

Jim,



A little bit of off-topic philosophising... . While I agree with your premise that new products and vendors shouldn't be summarily flamed off the board, one of the principles of Leadership 101 is that respect cannot be demanded; it must be earned.



The reason that the Bill Kondolays and Fred Swansons have their supporters on this forum is simple human nature - they have paid their dues and earned the respect of many participants.



That's the challenge any newcomer to this forum faces - they have to "hang in there" long enough to earn the respect they want (and may even deserve. )



I, like you, want to hear from the new guys with new products, but I'm an old man who has been burned too many times. Therefore, I tend to be somewhat cynical (I doubt that I'm alone here) until the new guys prove themselves and their products. No, it doesn't make it right, but that's just the way it is with us imperfect human beings.



JMH2CW.



Rusty

 

[carhauler]

Rusty,

While I agree with your comments totally, I would like to see ATS given a chance to earn that respect ,

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

guys



i'm no slushbox guy but i stopped by ats a couple of months back to check out there turbo's and hotrod parts. here were my impressions:



it took a little awhile for don to get some time to spend with me these guys are busy. this didn't bother me as i just kind of showed up.

as don and i started to bs, i felt he was defensive at first and i was not attacking him. i do remember the vr6 pump thread and figured that was why.



after about 1/2 hour i think don saw that i wasn't there to tear of any of there products apart, and he opened the whole shop up to me.

they have quite a shop it looked like to me that they build everything for there auto's in house.

don then gave my a ride in his truck to show me there transmission and custom turbo. his truck does run good, and there turbo spools very quickly. when don says he dyno's at 300hp that's at 6200'. my truck was 100hp low on the same dyno.



i have driven both types dtt and ats's.

here are my opinions on ats's converters. they seem to have a stall built into them. which is what i think would be perfect in my truck. if i had a slushbox. i didn't notice the stall in 1st becuase his truck was always sideways! but out of lockup, if he slowed down to 1500rpm and stood on it the rpm's would go to 2000rpm and take off. it wasn't down shifting. with the stall and his turbo there was no lag. i never saw him walk thru his converter.



if i had an auto i think that ats would be more than happy to install one of the 3 disks in my truck and see if i can get lockup to hold over 600hp.



i aslo like the feel of bills converters, they are very tight and they feel good.



but if i had to buy one for what i love to do it would have to be a converter that i can lockup. i love to dyno my truck and for that i need lockup. if i lost 7% with no lockup at 600hp it would be 42hp. my truck is not a daily driver, so i'm the exception not the rule.



guys bill has a great product, and he was about the first to have a good one. things change and i'm sure he will be right there with new great things as he has said.



but we need to have an open mind when new products come out. bd's new x-stator, and ats's 3 disk are showing great promise.



if nothing new ever came out we would all be driving stock trucks and wouldn't have these problems.



all the auto guys dtt,bd,and ats need to be patted on the back not slammed. think about what they are doing, the hydralics in these auto's are holding all this hp. the output shaft is breaking before the hydralics let go. that impresses me.



sorry about the long post but if we slam new ideas everytime they come out , they will stop sharing new and great things with us!!!



jim

 

[RustyJC]

Re: Rusty,

Originally posted by carhauler

While I agree with your comments totally, I would like to see ATS given a chance to earn that respect.

Jim,



Yep, so would I.



Rusty

 

[Bill Kondolay]

dramer , clint,



One of the things you will have to get used to is the questions.



These guys are smart and when they dont understand they ask questions and is the correct thing to do.



I have been a member for a while and i answer a lot of questions .



One of the fundamental things i have been teaching these guys is that they need to crank up their line pressures to increase their clutch holding capacity whether its in the tc or the transmission.



The other thing i have been teaching them is to not rely on lock up using mystery switches or the torque loc .



Now please keep in mind what you are asking them to believe is the exact opposite of what i have been saying for the last couple of years.



Here's one of the things i see that is confusing them,

on Kevin's truck you turned his base pressre to 96psi at an idle when on his truck from the factory it would have been between 48-52 psi.



This is a direct contridication to the statement you made that they dont need to turn their pressures up, they need only buy a tc.



No one is flaming you or your product, they are simply asking questions.



You guys laid down a pretty blanket statement when you started this thread. Now had you not wanted to answer any questions about this you may have been better served to take out an add in the magazine or on the advertising section of the website.

 

[boonsur]

A Little Slow

I just caught the line about 96psi. What is the highest (base) line pressure that Bill uses? (I thought it was quite a bit less than this).

 

[DRR-24V]

Dramer Is Defensive?

Why wouldn't he be defensive? He has been slamed constantly since his post. DTT has a well deserved rep in this field, but there IS ROOM for improvement. I would give the guy a chance. JMO

 

[dramer]

Re: What the ForK?

Originally posted by Stranger

I posted a question in an earlier thread about auto trannies and the first person who posted was Bill K. He responded with FREE advice and no hard sell and no smart A$$ remarks. (BTW I bought Bill's trans because of his responses and help, get the picture, hint, hint?)

I posted a question earlier in this thread and got no response, am I freakin' invisible here, or is there no answer to my questions?

The toque converter performs well for towing due to the efficiency of fluid coupling to lock-up. It has a about a 180-200 rpm drop. This torque converter has the new clutch pack that just wont slip. If the customer wants 1st, 2nd & 3rd & 4th gear lock-up it can be done by some valve body mods. This makes towing the cats meow. As for the stator, we make them custom for what kind of fluid coupling the customer wants. Our normal efficiency for this converter with lockup is 91% but we still can give the customer the option of what mods they want. My choice for my truck is lock-up in all gears, Raised line pressure to base 95 psi; this gives me the holding force for the front clutch on coast. This line pressure increase is not needed for the converter but the transmission on coast with minimum throttle. If the customer does want factory line pressure than a pressure-loc is needed only for exhaust brakes on coast for the front clutches. This will insure no slipping with loads on coast. Towing is nice; the heat is down with all of the power to the ground. It makes it nice to run stage 3 injectors an easy-box & a TST comp with our hybrid turbo. (Pulling is a blast). Nothing like pulling a long hill with lock-up. This TST comp box is choice for the Colorado Mountains you just set the pyro limit and drive it takes care of the heat. Let me know if this answers your questions. Please note that raised line is not needed unless you use an exhaust brake. By adding a clutch to front clutch drum is to help the transmission for High HP & Torque only. The use of the pressure loc is for raising line under min throttle. The pressure lock was used also to help keep line pressure up to the converter; this is no longer needed for our triple clutch. Kevin Goode has a built 12 valve we raised line for him for the transmission and Kevin wants firm shifts.

Again it's not needed for our converter!!! Please also note that adding clutches to any drum or converter adds holding power at the same line pressure. This has made it possible to bring line pressure down for lock-up.



Don Ramer

ATS/PTC Inc.

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Ok, I'm with Carhauler. No more needless bashing. I will, however, bash the heck out of anyone who has let down their customers. ATS seems to be another company that cares about people. Matching DTT’s service will be very hard though. Don and Clint- keep up the good work, and don’t give up on us because of a few things that seem out of line. We are all just trying to learn.

 

[Stranger]

Thank you.

Thank you Mr. Ramer, for your response.



Lots of information. IF my DTT gives up and I'm still towing, we'll see what happens.

 

[Johnboy3]

transmission from across the tracks....

I realize I'm not a Dodge guy, but I enjoy reading your threads. I just thought I would add this. I've torn through 3 factory Ford convertors before finaly getting a good one. I went to a Brian's Truck Shop transmission for my Ford. The torque convertor is 100% lockup. It's absolutely incredible. The lockup reminds me of a standard trans when accelerating slowly. It seems as if you just shifted from 3rd to 5th and dumped the clutch. Under hard accerleration when it locks away you go.



I'm not sure if I'm really adding anything here, other then to say that a good convertor is one of the best mods you can do to an auto. I had talked with Bill before getting the trans I did, but he wasn't ready for the Fords yet as he was still testing.



I do have a question though, why aren't all convertors 100% lockup? We have several automatic diesel pickups and the difference between a stock convertor lockup and a good one is amazing. Is it because a stock hp truck would dog out when the convertor locked? Just curious.

 

[CumminsAholic]

Sorry for my ignorance, but I still don't understand the 100% efficiency rating in fluid coupling. How does it unlock? Like at a stop sign, if it's 100% efficient out of lock-up why doesn't the engine die? Or is there a stall built into the converter so under a certian RPM, like idle, it doesn't move(like a drag racing car with a stall converter that doesn't engage til 2500 RPM?)? That car is just an example, if that's how it works, then I understand, otherwise could you please explain it better for me and others to understand. Also, if my truck had a 100% tc instead of say 89% wouldn't it have really bad turbo lag? Also I believe that Bill's TC drops about 200 rpm when it goes into lock-up. If yours is 100% in fluid coupling it should have NO rpm drop into lock-up right? 100% to 100% should be no drop. I can see the 200rpm drop if it's 93%, but can't understand it if it's 100%, please explain. Thanks for the info, I'd call if I had the time, but I don't and when I do, it's late at night when everybody is closed. I'm still looking for a TC, I was going to go with Bill's but I like to keep my options open. I also want the best, Bill has proved that to me. If yours is better then it'll be behind my motor. I guess time will tell. Thanks Again,

Corey