old (50's, 60's) Cummins diesels

[GWDiesel]

just a few things to rember

When you were a novice driver you were taught NOT to run in

5th. under or 1st. over when pulling hills or sit at the stop light with the clutch in,you waited till time to go and used the clutch

brake to pull into gear and leave the stop lite. Whens shifting gears you only pushed the clutch in a little over half way so as not

not bump the clutch brake and wear out the clutch brake to soon!

when going down long or steep hill's you held a slight throttle

pressure so as not burn the D or DD fuel pump discs,this was before the PT pump,some one spoke of a dime in the fuel return line,the dime had a hole in it to slow down the fuel return to the tank! Next time we will talk about the bad boy stinger for the PT pump. so long for now, GWD

 

[CPG]

As we seem to be reaching the end of this thread, I will undertake to answer JStieger's question about the arrival of the Road Ranger trans. as well as the 12 speed Spicer's.

It is my belief these appeared in the early 60's. Thats when I worked for the Dealer's. The Spicer was a very tempermental trans. The Road Ranger,RT or RTO (with overdrive) seemed the best of the two. The trouble with the RTO Road Ranger was in the rear planetary section. Always trouble there.

I want to add as I was just a mechanic, most of the good driver's used to shift after taking off from the stop useing the clutch and then shifting without with their tach's.

Most the time this was with their ears. No clutch ( I may be erroneous here) I have always held a high esteem for the professional driver. With thousands of miles logged up on their rigs and their patience, these guys are the Knights of the road. Todays driver's have it rough. The traffic is forever getting worse. After his eight hours on the job, a mechanic can go home except for some OT. The modern driver has to keep on the road now and put in many hours. The modern transmissions in these newer trucks are a big difference between the old 5 speed Spicer and the Brownie (Brown & Lipe). I am amazed when I go up grades like Donner Summit here in CA pulling My 26' foot fiver, how the new breed of truck and driver go around me in almost direct gear. This is a far cry from this "old coots" experience of years ago. see my signature on my rig and it will tell you how ancient I am. Its been a long haul.



Chuck Goode



Mr. JStieger, I hope this has helped to clear up the past to now. I am almost certain that my view will be corrected by the "Knights of the road".



Chuck Goode

 

[JStieger]

Thanks!

Thanks for everyone's replies - sure learned lots about history!



"when... sit at the stop light with the clutch in,you waited till time to go and used the clutch brake to pull into gear and leave the stop lite"



GWD: I had an interesting experience when I moved to Nevada and had to retake my driving test to get a new license in that the DMV tester gave me demerit points for leaving my pickup in neutral with foot on the brake. I said that was how I was taught by Dad and that was how professional drivers do it, but she wouldn't have any of that for some reason.



"... then shifting without with their tach's. Most the time this was with their ears. No clutch... "



CPG: I got to do more than a few ride-alongs with an "old coot" driver both in personality and age (70) for the mine haul I wrote about earlier. The ride-alongs were part of a cycle time study which I "volunteered" for . He had written up his truck for about a month in regards to the tach not working. I asked him about it and he said "I have to write it up as part of policy, but who needs a tach when you got the feel of the truck through the steering wheel, the ears to listen, and a working temperature gauge!". All his shifting too was clutchless unless he got in a real bind on a steep grade where he had to quickly break driveline torque - in that instance it was just a quick stab at the clutch. You could literally place a full glass of water on the dash without it spilling when he drove.



A while later he then said, "roll down your window I can't hear what you're asking!". His truck also had a decent stereo in it, but he said he wouldn't listen to it over his 10-hr shift unless it was the news because he would rather listen to the truck.



I actually learned a lot about good defensive driving as well as good shifting technique and timing by watching him drive, which I now try to use when I drive my own little CTD. I also learned how crazy lots of the regular four wheelers are too as to how close they come to being crunched because of the stupid things they do, such as the one family that passed us going downhill with 130,000 lbs and we couldn't see them past the hood and it was raining.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Re: Thanks!

Originally posted by JStieger

"when... sit at the stop light with the clutch in,you waited till time to go and used the clutch brake to pull into gear and leave the stop lite"



GWD: I had an interesting experience when I moved to Nevada and had to retake my driving test to get a new license in that the DMV tester gave me demerit points for leaving my pickup in neutral with foot on the brake. I said that was how I was taught by Dad and that was how professional drivers do it, but she wouldn't have any of that for some reason.



"... then shifting without with their tach's. Most the time this was with their ears. No clutch... "

"They" want you to keep it in gear while waiting for a light or whatever so you don't drift back when it is time to go. In reality, that clutch gets mighty heavy on the leg.



Clutchless shifting is still very commonly done today with the Road Ranger transmission. Personnally, I use the tach and/or sound to tell me when to shift then feel my way through the actual shift. I do use the clutch on a high torque rise engine. The engine rpm's don't drop as fast on this type of engine.



The engine brake is another tool that modern trucker's have at their disposal to help shift going uphill. To reduce the rpm's quick enough to get it into gear while upshifting, the brake is allowed to come on while shifting. It takes some finessing especially with the constant torque engine. In fact, without a brake, you often won't upshift a constant torque until you hit the top of a hill.

 

[GWDiesel]

PT pump stinger

Many years ago Mr. Carl White the Diesel mec. Our best(IMHO)Called me over and asked me if I had seen any thing like this?

I was a 1/8 pipe plug with a steel rod about an inch long or so.

Mr. White had gone over to safety check a rig and when he fired

up the motor the RPM'S jumped to over 3000 rev's Before he could lift his foot off the throttle, the Stinger bypassed the gov. ,the torque spring,and the rail press. button! To his credit, he said to tell the driver to never do that again! to his credit ,he never said a word to anyone else. The man had a wife and kids and had about

19 yrs on the job! the driver said he Never saw so much safety

wire all over that PT pump with seals! This was a bit long,I hope you got a kick out of it,I still smile when I think of it GWD

 

[BRose]

I am one of the semi-old coots. I drove a cab-over Mack tractor with a 40 ft trailer in 1970 with 5x3 transmission with a 335HP Cummins which was turbocharged. That was a sweet running truck.



In 1971, I drove for an oil well services company a Mack pump truck with 220Hp Cummins non-tubo with two pumps on the back with two 335HP Cummins. The pump trucks had twin-screw rear-ends that used a 5 speed transmission with a 3 speed rear-ends.



Our bulk trucks ran the Roadranger 910 & 913's(10 speed & 13 speed). We also had some pump trucks with a V-6 high speed Cummins engine.



We had some trailered pumping units for oil well fracturing that a V-12 Cummins with twin-turbos.



Bob

 

[CPG]

GWD, I well remember this old pipe plug and rod trick to gain more power. This cost a lot of owner's in loseing their warranties when they had the scoured pistons and the like in those days. A good pump man could see the mark inside the gov. housing that the pin was holding up against. This is like the program on TV. CSI ( crime scene investigation). Carl knew most the tricks of the trade.



Chuck

 

[CPG]

Bob, that "semi - old coots" made me laugh.



Chuck

 

[GWDiesel]

breaking marbles

HI:CPG I guess that pipe plug trick was more common than I knew

of! There was A guy that owned an older K Wobbler that when It Idled it sounded louder than a Cat. So I asked him what motor he had?He said a 335 Cumin's With a #5 button in the pump and fast 335 timing, All the other pullers said nobody could pass him

on the steep hill's!Good thing it was a twin screw 3 axle or he would have been putting on new drive rubber every week,not

Enter cooled motor I looked! I bet he had one of those pipe plug

deal's in his pump. Does anybody remember the old Hall

Scott 400?I Hauled tomato's up on the American river one season

and the guy that had one up there made almost 2 round trips to our one,boy that propane powered rig flew,we had derated 200

Cumin's on that job.

J STIEGER That DMV tester in Nevada just had to be the most

untrained tester Ever!When you are waiting to make A left turn

into oncoming traffic you never turn the wheels until you are moving in case you are struck from behind and are shoved into on coming traffic! And the same goes at the stop lite if you are hit in the rear your foot could fly off the clutch! Chuck and all other's

I am going to bed Goodnight! Jerry

 

[CPG]

Hall/Scott engine

Jerry, I well remember the old Hall/Scott's. I worked for Hall/Scott briefly and had a hunting pal that drove one. It was propane fueled too. These were very powerful engines. With the introduction of the Diesel's for better economy, this was the finish on these. Remember the Budda? These were really a fire belching machine.



Chuck

 

[GWDiesel]

propane power

HI Chuck: A driver I knew that owned A Hall Scott told me that was the only truck that cost him money while parked!(propane

leaks) I think I remember a Sterling with the air over oil front shocks

with what might been a Budda powered rig?Did Budda build both Diesel and Gas motors in those days?I remember some of the old Pete's with 5 Speeds,5th Gear was over and up by the steering column, If you were not careful you could scrape your knuckles or

hit the hand brake handle with your wrist. Jerry

 

[Champane Flight]

Old Coots?

I remember driving a 65 Freightliner with a 190 Cummins and 5X4. You put your foot down and then backed off an inch, she would put a flame out the stack of about 12 to 18 inches, and talk to you..... Does this make me an old Coot????