old (50's, 60's) Cummins diesels

[JStieger]

I bought a set of 6 videos from the American Truck Historical Society a few years back that showcases old restored heavy duty trucks. For more than a few of the showcased trucks the owner talked about the engines being supercharged Cummins with a split manifold for "the sound / the bark" when rowing through the gears (they really do sound sweet!) Something about exhaust pulses fighting one another to create the sound.



When did diesels switched to being turbocharged and why? More boost and power? Better reliability?



Also, do our CTDs have the split manifolds?



Anyway, the vids were pretty cool and those Cummins sure sounded nice, especially straight piped - notably a mid-50's International from Arizona that the owner drove through the mountains with a loaded flatdeck trailer with the exhaust echoing off the canyon walls! The International owner even retrofitted a 13 speed Roadranger with a 3 speed brownie and 2 speed rear axle for a total of 78 different gear combinations!



Lots of footage too of the owners driving the old 5x3 and 5x4 twinsticks, often clutchless, in old Macks, Brockways, Diamond T's, Kenworths etc with those narrow butterfly hoods and full metal interiors. Some of the Cummins were even normally aspirated. One truck had even a monster Detroit V12.



Even some of the gas powered heavy trucks showcased had twin plugs per cylinder, yet before this I always thought that twin plugs were "new technology".



Don't know about everyone else, but even though I'm only 31 there's something about that Old Iron character (even overlooking the no power nothing, manual air conditioning, and almost bench type seats)!

 

[GWDiesel]

Old Trucks

My most fond memory of years gone buy was when when for a short while I drove this not so old then Pete. with A 275 hp Cummings, Roots charger with A backdrop Ex manifold you could hear that EX bark for miles and miles,I can still hear it in my fond memory's of past year's gone buy! GWD

 

[Camara]

I have a 1950 Sterling ,chain drive, with a HRBB Cummins. 160hp. It has a single disk type injector pump with individual pressure and return lines fom each injector and is naturally aspirated. With a straight pipe it was too loud and obnoxious. I put a small muffler on it and now it sounds just right. I know that Cummins used superchargers in to the 60's and turbo's were finally a standard item in 1978 on the 855" engines. I can remember all the contractors complaining about the turbos being an expensive maintenance item.

 

[GWDiesel]

Diesel fuel pump?

I cannot recall if the DD fuel pump was the one you listed,but what a change the PT fuel pump and system made!in those days

over the DD system. Is there a chance you could post a picture of your Sterling??Not to many of that year around any more. GWD

 

[GWDiesel]

After thought

I just remberd that the first Turbos,were huge and water cooled

I cannot for the life of me recall the name of the hot set up of the day was!And that was with fast timing on the injectors,you just

hoped you made it to the next in frame rebuild. GWD

 

[QRTRHRS]

Originally posted by JStieger

Even some of the gas powered heavy trucks showcased had twin plugs per cylinder, yet before this I always thought that twin plugs were "new technology".

I drove a GMC with a V12 gas engine. I don't remember what year the truck was, maybe a 66'? As I recall, it had what looked like two of those V6 GMC blocks put together with two distributers and two carbs. It was a bear to work on too.

 

[Camara]

I have a 1948 Mack LS85 Fire truck that has a 707 cid gas 6 cyl. engine. A whopping 165 HP. Forgot the torque #.

2 plugs/cyl, 2 distributors, 2 starters, 2 sets of batteries yada, yada, yada.

 

[sleon]

50- 60 cummins I had a 47 Pete with 275 roots blower we called a Iron Lung, twin six inch stacks, straight pipes, you had to put your fingers in your ears when you went under a underpass. Also had a 40 some model Sterling that had been rebuilt. Chain drive removed,steering moved,Hot Rod engine of the day , 335 hottest thing going. 5 sp main 3 sp brownie manual 2 sp rear axle. you had to pay attention what gear you were in. GOOD OLD DAYS. Who knows

 

[JStieger]

Originally posted by Camara



2 plugs/cyl, 2 distributors, 2 starters,

Camara, if you could post some pics of your Mack and Sterling that would be cool!



Now for some dumb questions:



-Could one distributor fire both plugs per cylinder if the other distributor took a dump?

-Was there a noticeable drop in performance if only one plug in the cylinder fired?

-Were the starters mounted on opposing sides of the block or were they "stacked" on one side?

-Last, were the chain drives less forgiving and really prone to breakage with all the gear reduction and/or if road "speed" and engine speed weren't matched during shifts?

 

[Camara]

I have to figure out how to post pics again. It can be quite frustrating but I'll figure it out. Both ignition systems were completely seperate from each other but could be operated together. I did notice that when I only used one set there was a difference. Starters were on opposite sides. Around here chain drives were the way to go. All the big contractors had either Sterlings or Macks that were chain drive. You have to remember one thing that back then it took a man to drive a truck and generally that man respected equipment. I have a very good friend that is now in his mid 80's and he drove many a chain drive. Chains did break but not as often as todays driveshafts. And chain drive trucks rarely got stuck. Come to think of it there is still a contractor in the Boston area that still uses shaft drive sterling dump trucks from 1952 and a house mover on Cape Cod that uses a 1949 tandem axle chain drive Sterling. They don't go fast but they will pull a house off it's foundation!

 

[CPG]

You people out there talking about the 50's & 60's Diesels bring fond memory's back to me.

I started my apprenticeship at old Watson/Meehan, the Cummins agency in San Francisco in 1951. As I am quite a bit older than you "young uns", I cannot believe how things have changed.

The first pumps out were the "D" pumps, (single disc), then came the DD (double disc) Clessie Cummins was mostly involved with this one. He called this his baby. When the PT pump came out, (pressure time), this changed the way to moving foreward fast. The single disc pumps weighed from 125-135 lbs, depending whether cast iron or alluminum. These were real fun to change especially on the old K. W. 's non tilt cabs. When the PT's came out in the late 50's, you could hold these in your hand. What an improvement for ease to install and fuel improvement.

On Donner Summit here in Ca. , I can remember when the old 47 "Petes" going up the summit had the drivers standing on the running boards with a throttle attachment on to keep cool. No traffic in those days . This is hard to believe I know. Not wanting to drag this on, the modern mechanics are really good. There are some bad ones too, but with the modern technology that is coming about, I would love to be around to see what transpires in the future. Diesel Engines will be around awhile you can be sure.

Incidentally, I am happy that I started at the time to have met such a fine man and terrific engineer as Clessie Cummins was.



Chuck Goode

 

[GWDiesel]

standing on the runningboards

Please keep in mind when we were standing on the running

board, the truck was only going about 3or 5 mph in 1st or 2nd

direct!,Been there done that! CPG, I started driving across the

bay in Richmond about the same time you started your App. I

had the pleasure to work with Mr. Carl White Who worked for

Cummings, I think in San Leandro CA. About the time Comings

and somebody else were sorting out the future Jake brake

GWD

 

[CPG]

GWDiesel, thought I was one of the only old "coots" around from those times. I remember Carl White well.



Chuck

 

[QRTRHRS]

Originally posted by CPG

GWDiesel, thought I was one of the only old "coots" around from those times. I remember Carl White well.



Chuck

Interesting commentary from you guys that have been around awhile. So then, what do you think about todays diesels some of which are pushing 600 HP?

 

[GWDiesel]

Sad to Say

Thanks for the reply,Chuck. I am sad to say Mr. White passed

before I retired, they found him out buy his car in the back he had

been working on it.



MR. Qrtrhrs: IMHO the Diesels to day are like comparing rockets to

Horse and buggys,we had to walk to run now we have the best

diesel motors, EVER IMHO,The Diesel Electric was the the most

Efficient in our time,But now days it is the over the road high output Diesels that are hand,s down the best way to ship,haul\Etc. right to your door! I hope I did not offend any of the Railroad buff's out here,It's just one old man's (coot)opinion

Jerry, GWD

 

[Camara]

Following up on the railroad side is that a choo - choo can't get to your door. Without trucks the US would come to a grinding halt.

 

[CPG]

Sort of thinking here they just as well might start an " ol coots" column on these forums someplace. Its unbelievable the progress that has changed these new Cummins engines to what they are now. Its people like Kondolay, Piers & the rest that has pushed this technology to where it is now. Its too bad that D/C is not getting on the band wagon to see what people want in a truck.



In answering QRTRHRS' question about the modern "bombed" engines, the best is yet to come.



Chuck

 

[Ray Torresdal]

Good topic!

I've really enjoyed this topic!



While not as old as some, I drove a supercharged Cummins (180 hp as I recall???) that was swapped into an old cabover 190 IH, with 8 speed road ranger. From that to a 250/855, and a couple of the trucks had 220's with turbos that were referred to as 262 hp. (No idea if that had any relation to reality or not!) I can remember a trip to South Dakota pulling an empty belly trailer when we never hit top gear because of a head wind, and were only geared for 62. Wisconsin was 45 mph on secondary roads, and 55 on the interstates- and we caught "H___" for driving too fast! Years later when helping out, I drove the bosses 400 Cummins. When I got home he looked at me sideways, and remarked, "It runs pretty good, doesn't it?" I about fell over!



Seeing big rigs in the left lane passing at will is still a turn on for me! Going to California with a load of eggs in the early 70's we saw a few older trucks showing fire out the top of the stack, and lots of black smoke. Wonder what their egt's were??? Now you only see a trace of smoke when they shift, and they rarely need to shift.



Ray

 

[JStieger]

Re: Good topic!

Originally posted by Ray Torresdal

I've really enjoyed this topic!

I've really enjoyed everyone's responses! Now for some more questions:



1) When did road ranger transmissions start appearing? Were they then accepted as revolutionary or looked at with distrust compared to the mechanical linkage twin sticks? In farm / ranch auction advertisements around where I live there are a lot of late 70s/early 80s Fords and Internationals listed still with the 5x4s. Also, sometimes in a truck trader magazine you'll see those high-powered heavy haulers advertised for sale with the 18 speed roadranger with a 3 or 4 speed auxilliary!

2) Did the roadranger start with 8 speeds and then quickly evolve to say the 13-18 speeds? Or did it take a while for transmission design and technology to catch up with the idea of higher speed transmissions?

3) Is the number designation, say ### Cummins, just the standard Cummins designation for base horsepower for the block design?



At work we haul some of our gold ore to another mine for processing that's roughly 175 mile trip. The initial trucking contractor used 90% mechanical 400 Cummins trucks backed by mostly 9-10 speed transmissions (maybe a few 13s for the experienced drivers!) to pull 129,000 lbs gross. The cycle time for this trip was 4 hours with these trucks and the trucks definitely took a beating, but kept on ticking day in and day out. These trucks had a hard time reaching 65 mph on the flats. Some of the more mechanically experienced drivers did turn up their assigned trucks (often using a dime?) for more power - there was always the inside joke that so-and-so was sending out smoke signals when climbing a grade!



The second trucking contractor we are now using has all those nice computerized 550 Cats with 18 speeds and their cycle time for the same trip is a little over 3. 5 hours. The cycle time difference was made on pulling the hills better as well as on the flats, where the drivers had no problem reaching 75 mph. As a result the mine and thus the contractor received lots of speeding complaints and the contractor had to turn down more than a few trucks.



Whenever the first contractor had an engine down it was always "no big deal, we'll resleeve, and have it out hauling tomorrow".



Whenever the second contractor had an engine down it was "crap... a few days and $10-15,000 for a new crankshaft??"



Needless to say witnessing what the first contractor had to go through with his Cummins fleet as well as how relatively cheap and easy they were to work on were what sold me on buying my Cummins!

 

[baby.driver]

I would like to take this opportunity to thank especially these 'old coots' for the education they are providing with this thread.



My first truck was a '77 freightshaker with the new 'Formula 290'

and a ten speed Roadranger.



80,000 lbs. with less power than some of these guys have in their pickups!