OMG!!! Twins Rock part II

[T. Baker]

OK,

I got it now, "Max HP drive pressure". Thanks, Andrew and Diesel Freak. That gives me somthing to compare things to even though I don't know the mods the engine had that gave the #s.

 

[cmonroe]

Drive pressure? Well we all know that if you have excessive drive pressure then you will see an increase in your EGT's. There is no way around it. If you have excessive drive pressure you will restrict the flow of air in the exhaust side of the turbos. Thus holding heat in the manifold, head and combustion chambers. I can say first hand that this is not the case with the compounds in question. Egt's on level ground at 90mph = 675 degrees, Raton pass at 80mph under 800, over 120mph on a 7% grade for eleven miles not exceeding 1000 degrees. Oh and yes I will be installing a 100 psi gauge in a triple pod soon just to check them for everyone who is in question. Also, DF can you change your signature please. Being a highly decorated prior Enlisted Man I take great offense every time I see it. Yes I am aware of the history of the term and that it was actually in the officers handbook. I'm not mad at you I just think that it is of ill taste.

 

[StakeMan]

Originally posted by cmonroe

Drive pressure? Well we all know that if you have excessive drive pressure then you will see an increase in your EGT's. There is no way around it. If you have excessive drive pressure you will restrict the flow of air in the exhaust side of the turbos. Thus holding heat in the manifold, head and combustion chambers. I can say first hand that this is not the case with the compounds in question. Egt's on level ground at 90mph = 675 degrees, Raton pass at 80mph under 800, over 120mph on a 7% grade for eleven miles not exceeding 1000 degrees. Oh and yes I will be installing a 100 psi gauge in a triple pod soon just to check them for everyone who is in question. Also, DF can you change your signature please. Being a highly decorated prior Enlisted Man I take great offense every time I see it. Yes I am aware of the history of the term and that it was actually in the officers handbook. I'm not mad at you I just think that it is of ill taste.

Someone got twins?

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

And how!!!!



Craig got a set w/a HY-9 BHT3B combo and WOW!!!!!!!!!!!



I'd be lookin for a 12 sec timeslip from him. I liked his setup better than mine. I may have to swap the top turbo when I put the p-pump on.

 

[Diesel Freak]

Originally posted by Mark_Kendrick

And how!!!!



Craig got a set w/a HY-9 BHT3B combo and WOW!!!!!!!!!!!

... that is very close to the system I am working on..... except for it is a HY35... ... the only is that it has been hogged out a bit.

 

[Diesel Freak]

Originally posted by cmonroe

Also, DF can you change your signature please. Being a highly decorated prior Enlisted Man I take great offense every time I see it. Yes I am aware of the history of the term and that it was actually in the officers handbook. I'm not mad at you I just think that it is of ill taste.

ok.....





what was your Rate?

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

MAYBE I can con him into tellin you the drive pressures



I won't be getting any readings off mine for a while. I had a drug induced headgasket failure friday night.



I fed it a lethal dose of propane... WOW what a ride:--):--)



The propane was fine until I added a timing box to the equation. the timing advance with the 85+psi of boost was a little too much.



I was getting an extra 20+psi of boost from the propane alone.



The gloves come off now. I have a copper gasket in hand. I ordered an ATS Ported and o-ringed head and. . a 913 p-pump and an automatic. gimme a month or two and the silver bullet will be back at mach 2+.



Later,

Mark

 

[Rob Thomas]

Originally posted by Mark_Kendrick

gimme a month or two and the silver bullet will be back at mach-2+.



Later,

Mark

Hmmmm, or maybe the boneyard after the awesome display of fireworks your engine's gonna make from bein' on so much crack. :-laf Happy BOMBin', literally.





Later, Rob



EDIT: Maybe you 'otta re-name your heap "The Silver Screech", after all the noise you'll hear from it lockin' up.

 

[cmonroe]

Mark at Mach-2+ I'm thinking that you are in excess of negative 1400 mph is this what you really meant? I know that dullys are slower but I had no idea they were that slow.

 

[cmonroe]

Alright I just went to the parts store and picked up all the necessary parts to test drive pressure. I have also roped in a non partial TDR member to double check all of the readings for drive pressure. I should be able to post these findings late tonight or in the morning.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Velocity is never a negative number. the change in velocity can be though



rob,

If I break it. . I fix it

 

[Diesel Freak]

I found a serviceable HT3B today on a 350 Cummins, but the turbine housing is way too big (32cm), and it would be cheaper to buy a brand new BHT3B than buy the used one and then the smaller housing.



I found out one interesting thing, the HT3B does not flow over . 6kg/sec efficiently... ... . the flow rate I want (. 85kg/sec) according to my source is not even in the outermost efficiency island.



Why is this turbo being used?



-the search continues-

 

[Diesel Freak]

oh, and it would be real nice if the big turbo I finally use has a clockwise rotation looking at it from the compressor end.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

The B/HT3B is not the end all turbo. It is the best turbo for under a grand. . way under a grand. the HT4B would be nice but it's huge and costs three times as much and would probably cause lag.



The counterclockwise rotation allows you to tuck that big a$$ turbo up next to the block to make it fit better in the truck. what more could you want.



cheap, big, fits well, performs well.

 

[cmonroe]

Drive pressure has been tested. At 50 psi boost we read 49 psi drive pressure and at 60 we read 59 psi drive pressure. Now Mark is going to change some of the exhaust piping that we discussed. Also thinking about installing a boost gauge pre intercooler to see what kind of pressure drop the intercooler has at this level of boost. Still lots of things to try, not condoning the hy-9 or the intercooler yet.

 

[T. Baker]

I have what I think is an HT3B. It has a 27cm2 exhaust housing on it. I'm hoping that would work well. I also have a Turbonetics waste gate with an 1 1/4" valve on it. I figure I could use that and use the stock HX35 waste gate also if nessasary only for the very top end. I'm just guessing but I think 45 psi boost would be enough to keep exhaust temp and smoke down and give me enough air for over 2400 rpm. My trucks torque really drops off after 2300 to 2400 rpm with my hybrid Hx35 12cm2 with an hx40 compressor housing. My goal is to keep it pulling hard up to 3000 + rpm.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Originally posted by csutton7

T. Baker--all Mark did was put the waste gate somewhere else--all other info he got from people who've done alot of testing---now that doesn't mean that what he's done is not a worthwhile system, but without the #'s who knows if it's really any different than what's been done before and has been tested ---I think that is the bottom line--and these guys are right if you're going to sell something you should know everythging about it--and if I plunked down 4k I'd like to know if the system is not due for premature failure--wouldn't you???... chris

I got to reading some of the earlier posts. . and...



Chris,

What are your drive pressures? you have one of the first B-1 Twin sets.



The drive pressures on this kit are less than 1:1 at 60psi (measured post intercooler) of boost. I have heard of HX-40/16s having 45psi drive to 50+psi boost but... . EGTs are over 1800*. You will have a hard time finding a turbo setup that will spool as well as a stock turbo and flow 1200+cfm while delivering max EGTs(preturbo) under 1400* and delivering 1:1 or better drive to boost ratios.



Mine uses well matched turbos that are inexpensive. If I were to make a twin setup for the ultimate drag car it would not resemble this product. the chargers would be much larger and more expensive. I would not sacrifice all out performance for drivability.



That being said I believe these will make better power than any single charger and drive like a well mannered grocery getter when the need arises. while still being able to crank out 12 sec ETs when called upon.



I have discussed at length with Craig and others about ways to reduce the drive pressure at a given boost pressure. We have a few things we are going to measure and try to do differently. For now the setup is achieving an acceptable drive pressure with excellent performance and drivability.



I haven't managed to break a turbo yet and I have really abused my 35. I have probably blown off a boost hose 30 times without(knock on wood) destroying a charger.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Originally posted by T. Baker

I have what I think is an HT3B. It has a 27cm2 exhaust housing on it. I'm hoping that would work well. I also have a Turbonetics waste gate with an 1 1/4" valve on it. I figure I could use that and use the stock HX35 waste gate also if nessasary only for the very top end. I'm just guessing but I think 45 psi boost would be enough to keep exhaust temp and smoke down and give me enough air for over 2400 rpm. My trucks torque really drops off after 2300 to 2400 rpm with my hybrid Hx35 12cm2 with an hx40 compressor housing. My goal is to keep it pulling hard up to 3000 + rpm.

The problem with using the stock wastegate is the inability to reclock the compressor housing. It's possible but will make the boost hoses tricky at best.



the hybrid 35 and the ht3b you have should work rather well together. I have seen the wastegate mounted directly to the exhaust housing. the welding gets difficult on the cast iron housing but it is a viable option.



Later,

Mark

 

[JTroiano]

I need two turbo's!!! I have a few questions. What is the difference between the BHT3B and the HT3B turbo? I can get a new HT3B for around $500. 00. what kind of waste gate? 35mm or 45mm and what is an inexpensive one? I don't see any support bracket for those two turbo's. Do they need one or are they strong enough without? I have a stock HX35. Should I get a 16cm or an 18cm non waste gated exaust housing. Any help would be great. It sounds like this system works great without knowing the drive pressure readings. Thanks for all the great reading and all the help. I usually get tired of my cars after about a year but not this one.

Jon T

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Originally posted by JTroiano

I need two turbo's!!! I have a few questions. What is the difference between the BHT3B and the HT3B turbo? I can get a new HT3B for around $500. 00. what kind of waste gate? 35mm or 45mm and what is an inexpensive one? I don't see any support bracket for those two turbo's. Do they need one or are they strong enough without? I have a stock HX35. Should I get a 16cm or an 18cm non waste gated exaust housing. Any help would be great. It sounds like this system works great without knowing the drive pressure readings. Thanks for all the great reading and all the help. I usually get tired of my cars after about a year but not this one.

Jon T

The BHT3B has a nondivided housing and a bleed oraface. . the little groove that's carved into the compressor housing on your HX-35 that cases the need for a silencer ring. The BHT3B should be comparable in price to the HT3B. they are similar in size and flow. The BHT3B flows a little more and is physically smaller with the nondivided housing.



The wastegate I have been using is a turbonetics billet 42mm wastegate. Piston actuated. a very nice piecs of craftmanship that has a small footprint.



You can use your stock HX35/12cm housing. Lock the wastegate on it shut and use the external gate.



The drive epressure is about 1:1 at WOT, 1200* EGTs and 60psi of boost.