2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Pics Of My 03 Track Bar Setup

[B KIRK]

Finally got some pics of my front axle setup. Pic in post is the top mount for the 03 track bar. Can also see the heim joints I used to replace TRE's. I added 2" to raise the coil spring buckets on the axle. This was to raise the lower track bar mount, to get the same amount of drop as the drag link. The coil springs are 3" taller. Total of 5" suspension lift. Added Cepek Long Arm kit. Also made a bushing for the steering gear box. I notched it out for an o-ring seal and added a grease fitting. Turned the sway bay over, and mounted to the top of axle brackets. I put about a 10* bend at each end of the crossover bar. Enough to clear a Mag-Hytec Dana 70 cover.

End results. Better than when new. No bumpsteer or wandering. With the longer control arms, and 5100 Bilstein shocks, handles the bumps great. I don't need a steering damper. No more "Death Wobble" at all.

Bad part is that there is a lot of mods to get it this way. But I plan on keeping this truck for a long time, so it was worth it to me.

Rest of the pics are HERE.



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Brad

 

[Jeff_K]

Wow!! Very nice job!! Good idea with the Heim Joints. Are they tougher than good TRE's??



I am going to have to paint the under side of my truck too, yours looks better than mine did new!

 

[B KIRK]

Thanks Jeff. I see you don't have to worry about doing an 03 track bar conversion.

Heim joint steering has been around a while. There have been improvements in the Heim joints. The ones I used are 4130 Chromemoly with a Teflon liner and a stainless steel bearing insert. Rated at 28,000 PSI tensile, and never need greased. The 3/4" bolts are grade 9 rated at 190,000 PSI tensile, and can be torqued to over 500 ft. lbs.

Only thing is, you have to drill your knuckles and pitman arm out to 3/4". They start at 3/4", and taper to about 5/8", so you barely remove any material. I used adjustable reamers to get a tight fit. Don't know if they are better than TRE's, have to wait and see.



Brad

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

So YOU'RE the one who owns the beautiful red Reg. Cab 4x4! Always wondered whose truck it was. Readers' Rigs doesn't show member's handles. I noticed your truck several years ago and have saved most the pics in my "favorite Rams" folder (hope that's OK)

I like what you did to your rocker panels but can't tell exactly what you put on there or if it's painted that way. Sorry to get off subject.



Nice work on your front end, and I too twould be interested to hear how the TREs hold up in the long run.



Thanks for sharing. Vaughn

 

[rbattelle]

How did you change the TREs to heim joints? Is it something that involes a lot of fabrication, or can heims be purchased in a standard size that will mate with the steering knuckles? Excuse my ignorance on the subject.



-Ryan

 

[Jeff_K]

Another OT question, What did you use to paint the undercarriage?

 

[B KIRK]

Sorry for the delay in replies guys. Vaughn, thanks for putting me in your "Favorite Rigs". I agree about user names not in the Reader Rigs. At least everyone knows who you are. My SS rocker panels have silver vinyl decal stripes on the top half. They were a little to bright without them, had to tone them down some. Hard to tell in the pics.



Ryan, don't know if heims would fit the factory rods. If they did, don't see any real advantage over TRE's. They would not be a direct bolt on, as you have to drill the taper out of the knuckles for a 3/4" bolt. The advantage is replacing the factory rods with the crossover steering setup. Straight rod from knuckle to knuckle, and straight draglink going right to the knuckle. With the heim joints, you can mount them together on the passenger side knuckle, and go above, or below the pitman arm, depending on the angle you need. Hope this lousy explanation helps.



Jeff, just used a rust preventive paint in a quart can, and brushed it on. I then dabbed the paint with the brush while it was drying to give a textured look. Then used cans of low gloss black engine enamel and sprayed over it. Holds up good. If I did it over again, I would have used the POR 15 first.



Brad

 

[Willys]

While we're off topic , I'm curious about the brass bushing you made for the steering box. Did this completely replace your lower bearing, or is it in addition to that? How has it held up? My lower bearing was going bad, so that when you turned the wheel, the bearing would move, and the seal would leak. Now I have the DSS, and there is hardly any leakage, but I'm still concerned about that bearing in there... .



Edit:

Forgot to mention, that is one NICE truck! Great Work! :--)

 

[mschoenheider]

Brad,

Any thought about putting the hem joints in double shear? Tie rod ends are designed to be mounted in single shear, but heim joints are not. I had a similar steering setup on my Cherokee (except I used flat top knuckles and mounted the drag link and tie rod to a 1" cold rolled high steer arm), and snapped the 5/8" grade 8 bolt on my pass side knuckle. In your setup you have more tortional load on the stock arm on the steering knuckle. I'm not saying it will break, just that you have more load than stock, and I am curious how long the reamed out holes will maintain their tight fit to the bolts. Please take this post as curiosity and constructive criticism as it is intended.

Mark

 

[B KIRK]

Willys. I left the needle bearing and seal in. The brass bushing goes in about 1/8" from the seal. I machined it for a press in fit. Used to make these back in the 70's. The Saginaw steering boxes were, and still are junk. Only difference with this bushing is I made a slot for an o-ring. The other ones I made let water and dirt get into the area where the factory seal was. This would cause the sector shaft to rust a little, and get pit marks. With the o-ring, it's sealed. I can fill that area up with grease. I drilled a small, (really small) weep hole thru the bushing to the top. I think this took more time than making the bushing. Excess grease can get out there. Here's a pic of it from the bottom. That little dot is the hole.



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Brad

 

[B KIRK]

Mark, I don't take your post as constructive criticism, I take it as your opinion, that's all. This topic has been :-{} on Pavement Sucks over and over again. It's like the transmission and oil threads here.

The following comments are just my opinion, thats all. The 3/4" bolts that I used were made for this type of application. They are, as I stated earlier, a grade 9 rated at 190,000 PSI tensile, and can be torqued to over 500 ft. lbs. More info HERE. With a bolt that size, that tight, lateral force is not even an issue. I feel it is in the quality of materials that you use, and the workmanship, that makes a design work, or fail. I have had tie rod ends fail on me, thats why I wanted something better. I am going by results that others have shared to go with this setup. This has been on my truck for over a year, and so far I'm pleased with it. This is the same setup a lot of the rock crawlers with 54" tires use. Must be a reason.

If you want more info on this, go to Pavement Sucks and do a search. There is a day of reading on this, with a lot of opinions. There are good points for and against either setup.



Brad

 

[RACE427]

Tre ?

Does TRE have a web site address? Thanks

 

[B KIRK]

TRE stands for Tie Rod Ends, like from the factory. Sorry, just to lazy to type it out sometimes.



http://bulletproofsteering.com/



This is the place that I got the heim joints and hardware.

Already had the mandrel drawn tubing.



Brad

 

[mschoenheider]

[/I]Mark, I don't take your post as constructive criticism, I take it as your opinion, that's all. [/I]

Actually I stated no opinions, only facts. You are adding additional tortional load to the arm on the knuckle. Heim joints were not designed for use in single shear. Where is the opinion?



With a bolt that size, that tight, lateral force is not even an issue.

I did not question the strength of the bolt. Your previous statement however is absolutely false. The size of a bolt has no effect what so ever on forces applied to it. Lateral force (shear) is probably not going to be critical on this setup, I agree. What could be critical, and in my case was, is the bending moment applied to the bolt due the distance between where the heim joints attach to the bolt and where the knuckle arm attaches to the bolt. These forces result in compression on one half (half circle) of the bolt and tension on the other half of the bolt. When you torque your bolt to 500 ftlbs, you are already putting immense amounts of tension in the bolt. The additional tension through half of the bolt due to the bending moment might be enough to snap the bolt.



I feel it is in the quality of materials that you use, and the workmanship, that makes a design work, or fail.

Well I guess we should get rid f all the engineers, because all we need is good craftsmanship.



I have had tie rod ends fail on me, thats why I wanted something better. I am going by results that others have shared to go with this setup. This has been on my truck for over a year, and so far I'm pleased with it. This is the same setup a lot of the rock crawlers with 54" tires use. Must be a reason.

Only a mall crawler could get by running 54" tires on a Dana 60. People running 54" tires typically use Rockwells or something similar, with beefier steering arms, not stock Dana 60 steering knuckles. I have not seen many, if any, that have the tie rod and drag link mounted to opposite sides of a steering arm with the same bolt in single shear.



If you want more info on this, go to Pavement Sucks and do a search. There is a day of reading on this, with a lot of opinions. There are good points for and against either setup.







I'm glad your setup works for you. I do not think it is stronger than a well maintained stock setup. I think it is weaker. That is my opinion. Do I have an education and experience to back up that opinion, yes I do. Does that mean that your setup will fail at the first curb you hit, no, absolutely not. I think mis-information on this board, especially when it deals with vital safety related components such as steering is not a good thing, but to each their own.

 

[B KIRK]

Actually I stated no opinions, only facts. You are adding additional tortional load to the arm on the knuckle. Heim joints were not designed for use in single shear. Where is the opinion?

I noticed the mods you did to your truck. You better not mash the go pedal. With all the extra stress you will twist the frame, the transmission will explode, the driveshaft will bend, the axle u-bolts will snap, strip the axle splines, and break the wheel studs off. Will this happen? I think not. Some of our truck design will handle the extra stress. Same as the steering knuckle. Did I increase the amount of stress on mine, yes. Is it more than a truck with a plow mounted to the front?

Hem joints have been around a long time in the manufacturing and agriculture industries. Take a look, you will see them in single shear. Lot of times held on a stud with a washer an cotter pin. Single shear is nothing new on a heim.

The size of a bolt has no effect what so ever on forces applied to it.

Part of that is correct. If I am placing 1,000# of lateral force on the knuckle bolt, it's 1,000# no matter what size bolt is there. But, what would hold that 1,000# force better? A 5/8" grade 8 bolt, or a 3/4" grade 9 bolt. Do I have to answer?

Lateral force (shear) is probably not going to be critical on this setup, I agree.

Guess not.

What could be critical, and in my case was, is the bending moment applied to the bolt due the distance between where the heim joints attach to the bolt and where the knuckle arm attaches to the bolt. These forces result in compression on one half (half circle) of the bolt and tension on the other half of the bolt. When you torque your bolt to 500 ftlbs, you are already putting immense amounts of tension in the bolt. The additional tension through half of the bolt due to the bending moment might be enough to snap the bolt.

I guess were back to the bolt. You are comparing a 5/8" grade 8, to a 3/4" grade 9, special alloy. Do you have any specs on that bolt? Was it one that was bought at your local auto parts or hardware store? Seen those that have the marks for a grade 8, but made in Korea. No control on the quality, or strength. You mentioned the "bending". Sorry, not enough bending with this bolt. Did you even go to the site for the specs? The torque to clamp the bolt, is what keeps it from any lateral movement. I guess I shouldn't say any, as there would be some, even in the shank of a tie rod end. Enough to break it? The research I have done says no.

Well I guess we should get rid f all the engineers, because all we need is good craftsmanship.

I'm glad your setup works for you. I do not think it is stronger than a well maintained stock setup.

I doubt if there is not a person on this site that wouldn't agree that the front axle design on the 2nd gen trucks is a total P. O. S. Maintain it. Where to start? Track bar with the tie rod end. Steering box failures. Crappy ball joints. steering wonder, one piece wheel bearings, cheap stamped control arms that are to short and bend, tie rod wear, etc. And of course the famous "Death Wobble" that has caused accidents, and left marks on many owners seats. Take it to the dealer and have them put a second steering damper on it. Great fix. Now more strain on the steering components to move another damper. we all know about DSS, Lukes Link, etc. but is it a fix?

I think mis-information on this board, especially when it deals with vital safety related components such as steering is not a good thing, but to each their own

I agree. This was not a spur of the moment decision. I did a lot of research, e-mailed and talked to people using this setup. I was at the Truck Jamboree 2 years ago. Watched the rock course. Saw what worked, and what broke. You have your opinion and facts, and so do I.

As I said earlier, this can be :-{} forever. But I'm done. People on this site are smart enough to make their own decisions. I am not trying to convince anyone to do what I did, just giving the facts of my results. That is what this site is all about. But don't try to compare what you did, with what I did. Compare apples to apples.



Brad

 

[Hammer]

I'm glad your setup works for you. I do not think it is stronger than a well maintained stock setup. I think it is weaker. That is my opinion. Do I have an education and experience to back up that opinion, yes I do. Does that mean that your setup will fail at the first curb you hit, no, absolutely not. I think mis-information on this board, especially when it deals with vital safety related components such as steering is not a good thing, but to each their own.

So Mark I have a question for you here on this... .



It seems like you have no faith in what research and quality workmanship can do. You seem to know alot about how unsafe this is and then go on to say how safe the "factory setup" is. My question to you is this. . "How can you use the words safe and factory setup in one sentence?". Its been long known how unsafe the factory froint ends truely are. Those owners who have had no front end problems are owners who either continiously work on them or are not being honest when you ask if they have had front end problems. I have one of the trucks that doesn't get used much(meaning,that it sees only daily street duty,hauls nothing but me and has only ever towed anything once)on this forum board and I can tell you how often my front end gets worked on. It sees some kind of repair at least once a year for something during our state annual state inspection. I'd hate to see how much work it would need to maintain it if I was to run it off road and/or haul all the time with it.



The heims on his front end are used the very same way most ANY chassis builder does in any form of motorsport. Drag racers,Dirt Track racers and off-Road racers rely on this very same technology and parts everyday in higher stress conditions than what we are in and yet have little or no failures. So are you to tell me that the factory front end,which you say is much safer,would be better to use in all applications and that the proffessional chassis builders don't know squat?. Think again and do some more research.



You said earlier that mis-information was something you didn't want posted here so then my last question to you would be this... "If thats the case then reread your quote above and then think about it some?. ". You actually tell the man one thing then go right back and say the factory setup is better. All the education and book knowledge isn't needed to see that.



Brad. .

Nice job on the front end and its about time the truck slips out of its hiding spot and get driven some. Now would you get the twins done and installed already... ... ... . Andy