Possible end of Chrysler / Cummins Contract

[Bill Stockard]

The 5. 9L and now the 6. 7L can be found in everthing from farm equipment, to busses, to gen sets etc. It's bonus for us that if found it's way in to our trucks 20 odd years ago.

It's an interesting story how that came about. At the first TDR Roundup and Rally at Columbus, IN, the two men, one at Cummins and one at Dodge who got together on the idea of a 5. 9L B series Cummins engine in a Dodge pickup, attended the Rally and told their interesting story. It was published in the magazine later in a condensed version.



Bill

 

[2Rowdy]

I believe CASE Corp. and Cummins designed and built the 5. 9 ltr and other cummins engines in a joint venture called Consolidated Diesel Corp. in Rocky Mount, NC. (IIRC)

 

[Bill Stockard]

I believe CASE Corp. and Cummins designed and built the 5. 9 ltr and other cummins engines in a joint venture called Consolidated Diesel Corp. in Rocky Mount, NC. (IIRC)

Yep, both the B and C series engines. Case needed a modern diesel engine and could provide the volume for Cummins to recover the some of the start up costs of engineering and manufacturing a new line of engines. Cummins recently sold their share of the joint venture and is no longer part of Consolidated Diesel.



Bill

 

[Wferenz]

... agree with most of the above. If Dodge dumps Cummins and they put a Cummins in a "Radio Flyer" guess what I will be driving!



Wayne

 

[bheiting]

Yep, both the B and C series engines. Case needed a modern diesel engine and could provide the volume for Cummins to recover the some of the start up costs of engineering and manufacturing a new line of engines. Cummins recently sold their share of the joint venture and is no longer part of Consolidated Diesel.



Bill

Anyone know who owns Case-IH? If you guessed Fiat, you would be

correct. This is just one instance where Fiat is breaking their ties

with Cummins, or is it the other way around. Cummins has accused

Fiat of helping themselves to a little too much of their engineering.

Be afraid Dodge Cummins owners. Be very afraid.

 

[rbattelle]

I'll believe it when I see it. If Fiat were to kick Cummins to the curb, my fear would be for Cummins. Cummins is the last independent diesel engine manufacturer we have left, and I've been engaged in a love affair with them for many years now. I'm not talking about the B-series alone, I'm talking about the entire company.

But they're being battered and beaten by the EPA at the moment. The last thing they need is to lose Dodge.

We the well informed members of this forum are but a small % of Dodge truck buyers /owners.

There was a time when TDR was advertised at Dodge dealers in pamphlets that came with the trucks. Back then I assume we were a much larger bit of the population. Alas, how far we've fallen.

Ryan

 

[Bill Stockard]

But they're being battered and beaten by the EPA at the moment. The last thing they need is to lose Dodge.

Ryan

Who knows... Cummins may be better off in the long run without the Dodge account. Even though it has been a high volume business, I would imagine it's very low profit. Chrysler taking bankruptcy which left Cummins "holding the bag" to the tune of $44 million for a while doesn't help the bottom line either. Cummins may be better off seeking other OEM manufacturers with lower volumes allowing Cummins more profit on their engine sales and less exposure to not being paid promptly.



Bill

 

['strokeThis_'07]

Man, everyones getting their panties in a bunch over nothing. Cummins and Dodge ARE NOT going to seperate. Not anytime soon. Id put LOTS of money on it

 

[Bochuck]

Cummins all the way, Dodge or no Dodge!

I' have to admit that if Dodge lost Cummins, I would consider buying it in a Ford but probably not a Chevy. Dodge would be foolish to let go of the Cummins brand, but if they're that stupid, watch the sale of the HDs drop to zero. Could you imagine someone saying: "OOhhh, I have a Hemi powered 2500. I'm king of the road!". :-laf Dodge would be nothing without the almighty Cummins. Actually I've put up with a lot of crap from Chrysler over the years just because I love my Cummins so much.

 

[DGamelin]

If it happens it will be over seas first. Fiat is dropping the Dodge name over there, they will be called Ram trucks. I would follow cummins to ford and for me that would be hard. In years past I have bought two new fords and was treated so bad it's hard to believe they are still in around. Chevy if they were to put a striate front axle in there 4wd. Or more likely I would find clean used Dodge trucks to fill the bill.

I would not in no way buy a fiat powered truck.



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93 250 2wd xc 354 auto 264k

04. 5 3500 4wd cc dully 373 6speed 87k

 

[dlmetzger]

Ford won't use Cummins & a question

Ford will not put the Cummins 6. 7L inline six in their trucks for two reason:



1) They just spent a healthy chuck of research and development money over the last 4 years to produce the 6. 7L V8 diesel and they need to recoup that investment.



2) The inline six would require another huge invest to redesign the engine bay to accept it. (This was stated in an earlier post)



Didn't Cummins end its relationship with FIAT (back in 2006) because they were helping themselves to their engineering (also posted earlier)? And doesn't Iveco (owed by Fiat) make a 5. 9L inline six that is almost the same engine as the Cummins. If this is true, then the DNA of that engine is a Cummins. Would people still buy a Ram heavy duty pickup w/ such inline six? Or is it more of a question of loyalty?

 

[2Rowdy]

Fiat has a 6. 7 that is very similair also.

 

[HBarlow]

I can only speak for this Dodge-Cummins owner but I will never buy a Fiat engine regardless whose engine it copied.

If Fiat turns out to be dumb enough to end the Cummins engine contract I am already driving my last new Dodge-Cummins.

 

[brods]

... ..... In related news, Chrysler may possibly withdraw from its joint venture with Hyundai and Mitsubishi to produce the World Engine that's currently used in a number of Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep vehicles. As you may have guessed, the replacement powerplants would almost surely be sourced from Fiat.



[Source: Automotive News - Sub. Req'd]

Fiat... um I mean Chrysler bought out the partners in the GEMA engine plant (the World Engine venture) in Dundee, MI so they can build Fiat gasoline engines there. Guess the plant will need a new name now. Chrysler buys out engine plant in Dundee | detnews.com | The Detroit News



It would seem natural for Fiat to want to supply diesels to itself (Chrysler). Hopefully they think better of screwing with something that works and at least keep the Cummins in the pickups. Who knows though, if the deal with Cummins for the half ton diesel engines is now void then they might try to slip a fiat diesel in the half tons and if it sells.....

 

[DGamelin]

I read that the fiat 6. 7 has a dry weight of 1400 lbs.



Any thing could happen, we have all seen these big companies drop millions and millions of dollars and change directions in what seems like seconds. I don't think they count money the same way we do. I think if Dodge did let Cummins go, ford would grab it. Even if it was just an option engine in the 450, 550. reconfiguring a engine compartment is child's play for these guys. Ford would definitely be selling the most trucks out there. And you know how munch they liked saying that about the f150.



_________________________

93 250 2wd cc 354 auto 254k

04. 5 3500 4wd cc dully 373 6speed 87k

 

['strokeThis_'07]

I think if Dodge did let Cummins go, ford would grab it.

In the EXTREMELY unlikely event Dodge and Cummins were to breakup, I GUARANTEE Ford wont pick Cummins up. It wont happen. Period. Never.



In this extremely unlikely event, I see Cummins getting out of the light duty business

 

[mwilson]

I don't want to crank anybody up, but why do you feel that Cummins / Ford would not do that?? I ask only because of the long history of B and C Cummins being used in the Medium Duty Ford trucks. There are quite a few of them kicking around up here. It seems that they can work together if they need to.

 

[HBarlow]

To install a long and heavy inline six engine like the Cummins ISB Furd would require significant reengineering of their front fender, hood, and grille styling and space. The platform would require redesign to handle the weight on the front end and suspension. The drive train would not easily handle the massive off idle torque of an inline six . . . V8 diesels don't build torque at or just above idle rpm but ramp up torque slowly as rpm rises. And, Furd has just finished spending hundreds of millions of dollars designing, manufacturing, (presumably) testing, advertising, and promoting their new in-house V8 diesel.

All these challenges COULD be overcome but I also consider it very unlikely that Furd would do so.

The Furd F-650/750 platform is a Class 6/7 truck, a very different animal than the F-250/350/450/550.

 

[mwilson]

Agreed that the F-Series 600, etc. are different animals, just used that to show that the two companies can work together.

Cummins is a stand alone engine manufacturer, that is all that they do. They don't really do anything else except for Fleetguard products. When Daimler got into it with Cummins in 2002 and we could no longer order Cummins in any class of truck, they scrambled and made agreements with Navistar, Peterbilt etc. to make up for the loss of orders and revenue. Freightliner, Sterling and Western Star was a huge chunk of the market for them to lose. Now at my last dealer meeting Daimler and Cummins have kissed and made up. We can now order Class 6 - 8 trucks with Cummins power again.

Point being in the unlikely event of a collapse of the Dodge agreement they would have no choice other than to hustle up a new agreement with some other chassis whomever it might be to keep that plant going.

 

[dlmetzger]

If Dodge drops Cummins in favor of a Fiat diesel, Cummins has plenty of options. One is Nissan.