Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Pump timing pin ?-changing timing

[JAmos]

OK-I know that there are specific measurements to go by when setting timing but I have seen the timing set by loosening the pump gear then backing the engine up approx 3/8'' and tightening the pump gear back up. I'm starting fixing my kdp/timing case problem today and am wondering if there is an easy rule of thumb similar to what I mentioned above, such as if I loosen and slide the pump pin housing "X" inches it will equal "X" degrees timing advance?



Jordan

 

[JFaughn]

This link may not be the page , but the site has what your looking for . TST Power Kit without Video with KDP Kit - KDP 03 & IN

 

[JAmos]

Hmmm, didn't see it at the tst site.



Jordan

 

[JFaughn]

Its there I down loaded & made a hard copy some time ago , but could not find the link.

 

[Bob4x4]

OK-I know that there are specific measurements to go by when setting timing but I have seen the timing set by loosening the pump gear then backing the engine up approx 3/8'' and tightening the pump gear back up. I'm starting fixing my kdp/timing case problem today and am wondering if there is an easy rule of thumb similar to what I mentioned above, such as if I loosen and slide the pump pin housing "X" inches it will equal "X" degrees timing advance?



Jordan

You may be thinking of the 1st gen where the pump can be loosened and moved to set timing,with the p pump you try that and will likely end up with a truck that will not run.



Bob

 

[JAmos]

No, not thinking of a 1st gen pump. On the p-pump where the ya take the cap off and turn the pin over to "lock" the pump, the pin holder/housing has room to move right? So in theory, if the housing can be moved, then the timing can be adjusted in this way also right? If this is possible then there should be a "rule of thumb" that "X" inches/millimeters of movement of the housing, results in "X" degrees of timing change.



Jordan

 

[Bob V]

When the gear "pops" off the pump shaft things move around more than you think. I would not recomend doing this. A member is offering to rent out his set for $50. 00.

View

I personally think this is too much, I think $25. 00 is more like it. If you do it the way you want you will be way off, even with the proper tools it is not easy to get dead on.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

No, not thinking of a 1st gen pump. On the p-pump where the ya take the cap off and turn the pin over to "lock" the pump, the pin holder/housing has room to move right? So in theory, if the housing can be moved, then the timing can be adjusted in this way also right? If this is possible then there should be a "rule of thumb" that "X" inches/millimeters of movement of the housing, results in "X" degrees of timing change.



Jordan

If you pin the pump with the pump nut broken loose(just the nut) then pull the gear and back the motor up it will advance the timing. All of this is only as accurate at the TDC of the motor and the timing that the pump is set at.



Formula: Diameter of the balancer x pie, devided by 360 x the number if degrees you want to advance or retard the timing.



Example: 9. 25 x 3. 1416 x devided by 360 x 5 = . . 436 Just short of a half inch for 5 degrees.



Timing is not brain surgery, don't over think it!



Jim

 

[cahammer]

ok so does anyone know where to get a new timeing pin so i can replace a broken one?

 

[Bob4x4]

They can be ordered from Cummins or Dodge. Dodge # 4429924,o-ring # 4429994



Bob

 

[JAmos]

Jim-so there is no timing adjustment with the pump pin and housing, correct? I must have missunderstood, but thought that if the pin housing was slid, then the pump could be pinned at more or less timing than stock.



Jordan

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Jim-so there is no timing adjustment with the pump pin and housing, correct? I must have missunderstood, but thought that if the pin housing was slid, then the pump could be pinned at more or less timing than stock.



Jordan

On the pump, if you move the housing that hold the pin you will change the timing were the pump is pinned at..... yes, to do this you would need a dial indicator setup.



What I was trying to say is you do not need to do any of this to change the timing that the motor sees..... maybe I should have re-read the other posts better.



Jim





PS: You can get a pump plastic timing pin at a pump shop also!

 

[Bob4x4]

Jim-so there is no timing adjustment with the pump pin and housing, correct? I must have missunderstood, but thought that if the pin housing was slid, then the pump could be pinned at more or less timing than stock.



Jordan

You will find cases where the pin housing on the timing gear cover is not in the perfect location. This will not be an issue to most of us. Bottom line is you need to pull the gear off the pump shaft to get any timing change,it is a press fit with no keyway to allow placement where ever you need it to be.



Bob

 

[KDHannink]

Easy timing

There are 36 teeth on the crank, so 1 tooth equals 10 degrees. When the pump pin is centered, and the engine is at TDC (as determined by the marks on the cam and crank gears) the timing is 12 degrees BTDC. After lining up the pump pin, I just loosened the pump gear, rotated the engine backwards half a tooth, tightened the pump gear up, now I'm at 17 degrees. I guess this isn't as accurate as the measuring the lift of #1, easier though.

 

[Highfinance97]

There are 36 teeth on the crank, so 1 tooth equals 10 degrees. When the pump pin is centered, and the engine is at TDC (as determined by the marks on the cam and crank gears) the timing is 12 degrees BTDC. After lining up the pump pin, I just loosened the pump gear, rotated the engine backwards half a tooth, tightened the pump gear up, now I'm at 17 degrees. I guess this isn't as accurate as the measuring the lift of #1, easier though.

That is some good Info!

But...

Is it possiable to use that method with the front cover on???


Mchael

 

[cahammer]

thanks for the part #'s bob

 

[RRamsey]

Y'all are crazy!

I have set timing hundreds of times with the sp500 snap-on kit and it is a pain even with the dial indicator, I always double check the timing because 3 times out of 10 it will not be exact. When 1/2 degree makes a difference, I would not guess by eyeballing a half tooth or whatever, a lot of times the pump will jump after you crack it loose, if you dont have the dial indicator to check it, you could be stuck with a truck that dont run or end up with way to much timing! I wouldnt attemp setting timing without the gauge. Just my 2 cents.

 

[hsmith]

And two cents well spent. I would not bust the pump nut loose without the dial indicator kit.

 

[KDHannink]

You need to have the cover off to see the gears. I was putting on a shiny new timing case (KDP, grrrr) so I had it all apart anyways. You can use a little mirror to look real close at the timing marks and gear teeth to get pretty darn close to TDC, then back the engine up however much you want your timing to be advanced from the factory setting.

 

[JAmos]

So, if the pumps jumps, do I pin the pump to keep it from jumping, or pin it and take it out so it doesn't break the pin off inside the pump? Worse case scenario, I could get a couple nuts and tighten them against each other on the pump shaft and turn the pump that way.



Jordan