RAM options for towing 5th wheel - advice requested

[SnoKing]

Auto Leveling Airbag system???? I don't know enough about this feature - can you help?

This truck has more than enough towing & payload capacity for my 5th wheel needs, BUT... it does NOT have Auto Leveling Airbags. Should I pass on it for that reason?

Or - am I likely to do just fine WITHOUT auto leveling air bags?

Or - can I do just as well installing an aftermarket airbag system?

I can wait for another truck to come along that has factory airbags, if they are something that I am quite likely to want to have.

Lastly, will airbags make for a more comfortable ride when we are not towing?

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It is reported that the OEM air system will give a better ride. Deflating rears to 35 empty helps ride a lot. Hard to do on a duallie. Don't worry about bagging this one until you try it fully loaded.

 

[pwr2tow]

I can't tell you if the truck will ride smoother with air bags vs no air bags since I've never run a truck with air bags. What I can tell you is my pin weight on my toyhauler with no toy in the garage is right around 3,400lbs fully loaded up with goods and water tank full. An occasional 14 day Camping trip I'll put in as much fire wood as I can heap in the box in front of the hitch and hitch height around the sides and behind hitch. I would guess around 1,000lbs. So 4,000 - 4,400 lbs with pin weight and firewood in the box and the truck doesn't settle much, actually rides really smooth. Makes me wonder if I had air bags if it would ride rougher.

 

[dieselshadow]

Factory air rides a lot better empty due to the simple fact there's only a few leaves in the rear springs. The non-air trucks have a full set of leaves which makes them stiffer.

 

[RVTRKN]

At first I didn’t like the feature, but I took a ride in a 2014 3500 SRW W/O air bags, it rode like a buck board. I’m told the leaf springs are lighter duty supplemented by the air bags, which makes a smoother ride, that alone would sell me now. Test drive both and see if it rides different. The negative is less control, more complicated and service techs need to catch up on the system. I had mine checked at first because the driver side air bag didn’t seem to want to inflate. The tech had all the literature he could print, which I posted here, and a comment “were both learning this at the same time”. But the difference is, he has the support and wytech to help him. I would think long and hard about it now. The system also can fill independently each bag, on the fly, as the load changes.

 

[Cummins12V98]

If wanting to compare the ride with and without the factory bags be sure to INSIST they drop rear air pressures to 35 on both rigs.

Air bags WILL help the ride on a standard sprung truck when loaded.

The rear air ride is an AWESOME system with a stellar record!

 

[Cummins12V98]

Here is my latest scale report. Truck sets exactly the same unloaded. Truck handles the 24k RV with confidence and the same when double towing my MC Trailer.

You are retired, don't compromise!

 

[AH64ID]

When did RAM make that change?

AFIK short bed trucks have always had smaller tanks than long bed trucks. Ram's current difference is 1 gallon.

I have opened up to the idea of a duellie. We are retired and have no commute. We go into town (North Scottsdale) perhaps a couple of times a week (20 minute drive each way) for groceries or the occasional doctor appointment. So, I figured that perhaps a duellie wouldn't be a big deal for us and it would add a significant level of stability and safety when towing a monster mobile house around. To me, even a 35' 5th wheel is a monster of a thing to drag around behind you.

A DRW will be better for a big 5th wheel. It just depends on the rest of your time.

I load my SRW up to 100% of the RAWR and could benefit from a DRW more than a few times a year.. but also more than a few times a year a DRW wouldn't work at all for me based on where I take the truck.

So it really comes down to use. You likely won't really notice the DRW around town. I park my SRW in the back 40 anyhow, so a DRW would be seamless in town.

The duellie doesn't add a LOT of extra payload capacity - just a few hundred pounds is all.

The payload on that sticker is based on GVWR, so the most a DRW will gain over a SRW is 1,700lbs. In reality the RAWR goes up 2,750 lbs. Depending on what your local registration laws are the RAWR is much more important.

Question - does the RAM air system make the ride (when NOT towing) more comfortable than without?

YES, it's a much better ride all the time.

And, are aftermarket air bags as desirable (or as nice) as factory-installed air bags?

No. I've ran both the OEM auto-level and OEM springs with aftermarket bags. The Auto-Level is better 100% of the time.

As for the 1000 engine and Aisin, am I likely to be just as happy with the 850 engine and the "68"?

This is also preference. Personally I wouldn't have bought a 68 truck. I wanted the heavier duty trans and the lower 1st gear.. as well as the added power.

 

[TCDiesel]

Someone that's capable of how.... DRW/AIR is more stable for Towing than SRW/Air? Your weight distribution on the Truck is exactly the same as SRW 9102 with Bags, Now the DRW with Spring only and overloads distribute the weight at 8 points I could see that be more stable. Sway is another matter.

I will take Txi-axle Trailer over DRW and Tandems. 12V98 You are simply Max-out on tire ground pressure, blow 1 tire the other is already Max-out and it blows in seconds, this Problem does NOT exist in most Txi-axle Setups spec out correctly. Your DRW does nothing for that scenario.

I state this all the Time going over 28K will require DRW for legal purposes and should be applied. Under that is Personal Preference, Setup and ability.

The Law Allows Txi-axle and SRW to 30K, IMO, ground pressure should not be Max-out.

 

[gsbrockman]

Here is my latest scale report. Truck sets exactly the same unloaded. Truck handles the 24k RV with confidence and the same when double towing my MC Trailer.
View attachment 117209

Tad over on rear GAWR (810 lbs) and trucks total GVWR (2,130 lbs), ehhhhhh?

And every CAT Scale ticket I receive is not hand written

 

[Cummins2014]

At first I didn’t like the feature, but I took a ride in a 2014 3500 SRW W/O air bags, it rode like a buck board. I’m told the leaf springs are lighter duty supplemented by the air bags, which makes a smoother ride, that alone would sell me now. Test drive both and see if it rides different. The negative is less control, more complicated and service techs need to catch up on the system. I had mine checked at first because the driver side air bag didn’t seem to want to inflate. The tech had all the literature he could print, which I posted here, and a comment “were both learning this at the same time”. But the difference is, he has the support and wytech to help him. I would think long and hard about it now. The system also can fill independently each bag, on the fly, as the load changes.

Yes ,my 2014 3500 Megacab rides like a buckboard at 80 psi in the rear tires, I now run 40-45 in the rear. IMO rides as good as a 1 ton truck can.

I run aftermarket airbags, my suspension is NOT dependent on them , I lose an air bag no big deal , of course empty its not a factor, towing I use to level just a bit, I actually debated even installing them. I do think they stabilize the truck a bit better. My question with these OE air ride trucks, what happens with say lets say 12v98 with the pin weight its a bit guessing somewhere between 4-5k ,and loses one of those air bags or both , just curious with a half set of leaf springs. Its sounds like from the ones that have it ,its the greatest thing since canned beer .

 

[Cummins2014]

It is reported that the OEM air system will give a better ride. Deflating rears to 35 empty helps ride a lot. Hard to do on a duallie. Don't worry about bagging this one until you try it fully loaded.

From the sounds of what fifth wheel he is getting ,he will not be in the need of any air ride or air bags, unless in all reality they do ride better. My sons 2016 3500 with OE air ride does not seem to ride a bit better then my 2014 3500, but some claim otherwise. .

 

[AH64ID]

I run aftermarket airbags, my suspension is NOT dependent on them , I lose an air bag no big deal , of course empty its not a factor, towing I use to level just a bit, I actually debated even installing them. I do think they stabilize the truck a bit better. My question with these OE air ride trucks, what happens with say lets say 12v98 with the pin weight its a bit somewhere guessing somewhere between 4-5k ,and loses one of those air bags or both , just curious with a half set of leaf springs. Its sounds like from the ones that have it ,its the greatest thing since canned beer .

I wouldn’t call it a half spring setup, but rather a softer main leaf setup. That goes away in ALT mode. The overloads are HUGE on the 3500 auto-level, and I’m no more worried about losing an OE bag than an aftermarket bag. In 22 years of using airbags I’ve never had a failure, and only one schrader valve that needed replaced. A sudden air bag pressure loss and the associated body roll would be equally stressful with either suspension.

My truck won’t go into ALT unless I have 500+ lbs of payload. That’s because at minimum bag pressure the truck can’t lower itself below normal height. The springs aren’t that soft, just softer than the standard springs and provide better movement for normal driving. They are much flatter too, which helps with empty driving.

I would be a little more nervous with the 2500 systems as it only rises on air.

From the sounds of what fifth wheel he is getting ,he will not be in the need of any air ride or air bags, unless in all reality they do ride better. My sons 2016 3500 with OE air ride does not seem to ride a bit better then my 2014 3500, but some claim otherwise. .

It’s a very noticeable improvement on the auto-level vs standard spring, at least in the trucks I have driven/ridden in.

 

[dieselshadow]

My question with these OE air ride trucks, what happens with say lets say 12v98 with the pin weight its a bit somewhere guessing somewhere between 4-5k ,and loses one of those air bags or both , just curious with a half set of leaf springs. Its sounds like from the ones that have it ,its the greatest thing since canned beer .

I can play your game. What happens if you lose a steer tire? A driveshaft? Your fuel pump? Easy, you deal with it.

Airbags don’t just fail randomly. We’ve only seen a few “fail to inflate” for the first time users. Is that a cause for not having them? I don’t think so. Damn near every class 8 truck out there has airbags. We don’t see them on the side of road with blown bags all day do we?

It’s a good system. If you don’t want or like it, that’s cool. But there’s no need to rain on them.

I just don’t get the attitude that “it’s bad because I don’t have one“ mentality. I’m seeing that a lot lately transmissions, airbags, DRW vs SRW, whatever. To each his own. Let’s discuss the pros and cons not bag on others choices.

 

[Cummins2014]

I can play your game. What happens if you lose a steer tire? A driveshaft? Your fuel pump? Easy, you deal with it.

Airbags don’t just fail randomly. We’ve only seen a few “fail to inflate” for the first time users. Is that a cause for not having them? I don’t think so. Damn near every class 8 truck out there has airbags. We don’t see them on the side of road with blown bags all day do we?

It’s a good system. If you don’t want or like it, that’s cool. But there’s no need to rain on them.

I just don’t get the attitude that “it’s bad because I don’t have one“ mentality. I’m seeing that a lot lately transmissions, airbags, DRW vs SRW, whatever. To each his own. Let’s discuss the pros and cons not bag on others choices.

Easy, no one is raining on your parade here . Just asking, its like you are doomed on here IF you don't have what I have . It amazes me the opinions ,when you have done otherwise ,and all is well .I will say again, as I have said before, no one else's experience or opinions matter, its just you resident experts that are supposed to be listened too, and get pretty excited when one goes against the grain. Relax a bit .

 

[AH64ID]

It’s hard to get a good photo with the bed installed, but here you can see that all the springs are nearly full length and the mass of the overloads that are use in ALT mode. These overloads provide a safety margin as well as an increase in roll stability.

Photos don’t really do it justice. It’s a very impressive rear suspension.

FWD

AFT

 

[Cummins2014]

It’s hard to get a good photo with the bed installed, but here you can see that all the springs are nearly full length and the mass of the overloads that are use in ALT mode. These overloads provide a safety margin as well as an increase in roll stability.

Photos don’t really do it justice. It’s a very impressive rear suspension.

FWD

View attachment 117219

AFT
View attachment 117220

Thanks for the replies, just wondering, I see it first hand with my sons, and get a bit different story from him. He tows pretty heavy EVERY day.

 

[TCDiesel]

Every Airbag I've seen cut open has rubber bump stops. the travel is only a few inches. this is a tall bag the travel what 5.5 Inches





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[Cummins12V98]

"12V98 You are simply Max-out on tire ground pressure"

Not hardly, you should look up what my tires can carry, I have plenty of capacity left. I have 780# of capacity before I reach my 11,340# rating @ 80psi.

 

[Cummins12V98]

"Tad over on rear GAWR (810 lbs) and trucks total GVWR (2,130 lbs), ehhhhhh?"

YEP, carrying a bit of "Stuff". Planning on a trip to FrontSight in Pahrump, NV soon.

My hand written ticket is from my trip thru the WA DOT scale near my place. My last Cat ticket had me around 150# over RAWR. I was carrying a complete SB Clutch setup that weighed at least 150#

Also YOU know running over GVWR is perfectly fine!!! YOU also know running full RAWR makes it impossible not to be over the 14k rating.

 

[Cummins12V98]

"I just don’t get the attitude that “it’s bad because I don’t have one“ mentality. I’m seeing that a lot lately transmissions, airbags, DRW vs SRW, whatever. To each his own. Let’s discuss the pros and cons not bag on others choices."

Common sense, I like it!!!