2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Replace Frame?

[HBarlow]

I have only owned 2 wd trucks so know very little about the earlier 4x4s.

Is anyone actually certain that a four wheel drive frame is different from two wheel drive?

It would seem more practical if the frames were interchangeable except for different running gear bolted under them. I would hope that Ram would drill all the holes in the frame to accomodate either front suspension and other equipment rather than creating so many different frames.

 

[mwilson]

Why would they even have to know?????

The State Of Maine would not care, the truck would retain the identity of the cab.



I'm sure some states are a bit more anal about it, in that case I would not even bring it up. No need to.



Mike.

 

[mwilson]

I have only owned 2 wd trucks so know very little about the earlier 4x4s.



Is anyone actually certain that a four wheel drive frame is different from two wheel drive?



It would seem more practical if the frames were interchangeable except for different running gear bolted under them. I would hope that Ram would drill all the holes in the frame to accomodate either front suspension and other equipment rather than creating so many different frames.

I think the front coil towers are only on the four-wheel drive frames, a capable welder could handle the swap as long as the frame itself had the same bends.



I would have to look at both versions before I would commit. Some crossmembers might be different as well.



Of course two-wheel drives are far and few between up here so I am only speculating based on what I have seen for photos of two wheel drive front ends on this website.



Armchair observation only... ... ...



Mike.

 

[AEdelheit]

Yes Harvey 4wd frames are different then 2wd IFS frames, all the mounting points for control arms, track bar and coil towers are welded to the frame, the IFS trucks do not have these components. Now a 2wd with a solid axle should be the same as a 4wd. You could weld on all necessary components just be more money and if anything is off good luck ever getting it to drive straight

 

[HBarlow]

Yes Harvey 4wd frames are different then 2wd IFS frames, all the mounting points for control arms, track bar and coil towers are welded to the frame, the IFS trucks do not have these components. Now a 2wd with a solid axle should be the same as a 4wd. You could weld on all necessary components just be more money and if anything is off good luck ever getting it to drive straight

Okay, sounds like you are well informed and I was only guessing or hoping.

It seemed like a great solution for icman but I guess he has to have a four wheel drive frame.

 

[icman95]

Sorry guys. I would have jumped in earlier but wife was on computer.



First, I'd like to again thank everyone for their two cents. I'm learning things I would have never even thought to ask. Keep it coming.



So here's my two cents:



As far as the DMV thing goes, Surf is somewhat right, but I don't think it would apply to me. As you can see on this DMV: Composite Vehicles CT DMV page, there are provisions for what the State calls "composite vehicles". It does say that they are vehicles built with parts of more than one, which, technically I would be doing. However, it is aimed at vehicles that aren't yet registered. For example a home built hot rod or custom built whatever. Since mine is already registered and has a VIN and title assigned to it, I don't think this would apply. It is simply a repair, not the construction of a composite vehicle. I could be wrong, however, and I'm sure someone will interpret this differently.



To go with Harvey's idea, I, too, would have thought that making only one frame would have been the best way to go for Dodge cost wise. I guess not. Like Mike, where I live 2wds are urban legends-they exist somewhere, but I can't find anyone who's actually seen one. I bet the reverse is true for you guys down south. This is why I like this discussion. I would have never have known that they were that much different. Not that I don't have the technical ability to understand IFS vs my solid axle, just that it's an issue I would have never come across. So I guess Doug's frame is out. What do the 2wds have for springs up front? Are they a strut system or coil springs like my 4wd, but just located somewhere else?



Just as a side note, this https://www.1stchryslerparts.com/oe_parts_catalog.html is a page from the online catalog of Westbury Dodge in Long Island. Fill in info at top for 2001 Dodge Ram 3500 then chose frame and frame assembly. It lists brand new frames for sale and there are separate listings for the 2wd and 4wd frames. There aren't part numbers there, just descriptions, but the prices of the two are slightly different, so I'd bet the they are not exactly the same. I guess that helps to answer that question.



Thanks anyway, Doug. Except for that, I would have jumped on it. I even Google mapped the trip out to you and it could have been done in a weekend. Oh well. Swing and a miss.



Anyone else know of 4wd frame available?

 

[surfbeetle]

Why would they even have to know?????

Because if you get pulled over by a over zealous policeman, you could lose the truck if the frame VIN comes up with a problem. The frame markings, not the body markings is the important VIN.

 

[icman95]

Let me throw one more monkey wrench into the works before bedtime. Does it matter if it's auto or manual trans?

 

[AEdelheit]

I don't know the answer for that but I would be very suprised if there was a difference between auto and man, I have a feeling all frames start out the same then the appropriate mounts are welded on to it for application

 

[WalterRyan]

I will jump in here with a little insight on the DMV. It does matter because the VIN number is on the frame. As a matter of fact all major parts have had to have the VIN number on them for a lot of years.



I do not have a legal degree so take this any way you wish but I have insight on this through first hand experience with the California DMV and Highway Patrol (I think we are now at the referred to ANAL level).



This is not a composite vehicle or any other definition a state may use but a repair. I did this very repair to a truck using truck I purchased for parts. I replaced several parts and forgot about the number on one part. I later sold the truck it got impounded on the new owner and this became an issue. I should have notified the DMV but did not. Nobody cared about that, all that mattered was that I was able to prove legitimate ownership of both vehicles when the swap was performed. I produced this and everyone was happy.



If it where me I would be sure I had a bill of sale from a wrecking yard or a private party with proof the vehicle was sold for dismantling or have a title for the frame. Do not bother with the DMV just keep copies in the glove compartment and the originals at home.

 

[painekiller]

oh well, it was a good thought. i didnt know your truck was a 4x4 until you posted it. good luck with your project and finding a good frame.

 

[CRodi]

Ken, would you be intersted in preventing your truck from rusting any further, or do you want to restore it first and then maintain it's condition?

 

[CRodi]

Hey guys, sorry for the short post. It got sent out by mistake, before I was finished with it. I had a longer version ready, but it failed to post. I'm not too good with computers and can't figure out the Avatar and truck profile. I'm waiting for one of my nephews or nieces to visit, so they could show me how. I'll try the longer post again, later.



Thanks

 

[CRodi]

Ok. Let me try this again. There are 2 rustproofing companies based in Ontario Canada that use an oil based product that works really well. They drip for about a week and it requires annual application - it's not a one time deal. On the upside if you start off with a brand new vehicle or a good solid rust free vehicle, you could drive a virtually rust free vehicle year round with out worrying about winter storage to protect it. Naturally it won't reverse the effects of rust, but it will prevent it from deteriorating further.



The first company is Rust Check(www.rustcheck.ca). The second company is Krown Rust Control(KROWN RUST CONTROL -Corrosion Control For all types of vehicles, and still ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY!). Unfortunately, you might have a hard time finding a shop in the US. I find it hard to believe, but I've travelled through New York, Ohio, and normally make one or two trips a year to Carlisle PA and never came across one of these shops nor seen any billboard advertising. I figured a shop in one of the rust belt states would make a killing. You might try contacting the company and asking them for dealer locations. I've used both company's products for the past 25 years and found it to be the cheapest - most beneficial thing I could do to my vehicles. I could spend hours discussing the side benefits and the similarity of these 2 companies, but this post is starting to get long winded. If interested check out the websites and if you have any questions, I'll do my best to provide answers.



In the mean time, maybe one of my Ontario neighbors will chime in with their view.

 

[icman95]

Walt,



I'm with you. I'm hoping a bill of sale for a replacement frame would be all that's needed to ward off any bad luck with the state. Who knows, though? BTW-anyone know where the VIN is marked on the frame? I never thought about it before, so never looked.



CRodi-Thanks for the info on those companies. That's the kind of thing that if I had done say-oh-10 years ago, we wouldn't be having this conversation. However, lesson learned and that's why I plan on repainting with POR-15. LIke JMcCoy pointed out, it's a fantastic product. Used it to paint the frame on my Wrangler last year and it seems bulletproof. Supposed to stop any rust already there and prevent any more from happening.



I checked out the links you sent. First one has only one location anywhere in the Northeast US-about 5 hours away from me in Syracuse, NY. Other company asks to click on Province to find location near you, so it seems limited only to CA. I wonder if they are hard to get put up here due to environmental regulations. Even if they aren't federal, maybe state or local regs.

 

[mwilson]

I have been approached by a manufacturer's rep for Krown a few times.



They offer a Heavy-Duty Neutralizer for the under-carriage of trucks and equipment, it will extend the life of calcium soaked items.



They also have a sealer to put on once the weasel snot is neutralized.



I am considering taking on the Heavy-Duty line as the State Of Maine is determined to drown us in caustic road chemicals.



I just don't think that they (Krown) have done a good job of penetrating the US market yet.

Plus we have had some flops over the years such as Ziebart... ... . so people are a little leary.



Mike.

 

[icman95]

BTW Mike-I know it's off topic, but been meaning to say this. Was up your way a few years ago with my RV. Beautiful country up there. Stopped in your town for some supplies while on the way to camp in Springfield. Loved it.

 

[Ken55]

I have an '83 4x4 suburban I used to plow snow with. The body rotted off and I dismantled the truck down to the frame. . I found a virtually rust free '90 2wd. I picked it up cheap to swap the body onto the 4x4 frame. Our DMV says the truck would still be an '83 but the title would carry a notation that it had a '90 body on it. I have both titles and they both need to be turned in and made into one.

I had no idea a new frame would be available. How would you go about ordering it? Thru a dealer parts dept? For 3K that might be the most cost effective/faster way to go about the swap. Just my . 02

I'd like to make my '95 an extended cab for the extra room and this has got me thinking. There's no way I'd spend the money for a new Ram but retooling my old truck is feasible.

 

[icman95]

Ken55



I would never have guessed a new frame was available until the body shop I was talking with mentioned it. He said it MIGHT-not IS-be available because after a while they stop making them and mine is already 10+years old. He checked with his supplier in their online catalog and they listed several versions for between $5 and 6K. He said they should usually be around $3k, so we didn't look into it anymore.



When I got home I checked this site: https://www.1stchryslerparts.com/oe_parts_catalog.html



Its a link to Westbury Dodge in Long Island. I heard about them on the TDR a few years ago. They have their parts catalog online and sell at crazy cheap prices. I've bought one or two things from them before and it worked out well. Got a headlight switch that was priced so cheap that even with the shipping charge it was still cheaper than what my local dealer wanted and even the generic one that Napa was selling. Fill out the info for year, make, and model at the top and then search for your part. It still lists frames for my truck priced around $3k. I haven't called them yet to find out if they're actually still available or what the shipping charges would be. Maybe they'll tell me that they can't get it anymore, but who knows? Maybe worth a shot.



When you finished with your 'Burban project everything went back together ok? No long term problems that might make me rethink doing this?

 

[S.Morris]

Rust Check and Krown oil spray were once partners. When they split, Krown was started and has taken over the lions share. Rust Check went the easy route and the product is available in Canadian Tire stores etc for do it your selfers.



That said, I have used this product annually (Started with rust check , before Krown was started) on all of my vehicles. It is the single best thing you can do long term for maintaining a vehicle in rust country. A big side benefit is that any corrosion in wiring harnesses etc, is pretty much eliminated and that right there makes it worth it.



The strong liquid chemicals they have been using up here in recent years should be banned. They can literally destroy a vehicle. I've seen what happens in upper NY state and Maine, and its not pretty either.