Shell Rotella T vs Shell Rotella synthetic

[mwilson]

My Wife said 'white', am I good?

You’re good....

 

[mwilson]

I think an OEM would have a battle on their hands denying coverage due to an aftermarket oil filter.....unless it could be proven the filter was the direct cause..and then would go after that filter company..

OEM’s have started protecting filters by either coming up with a thread pitch or something in the same vein so it can be patented. Thermoking has done that recently...or the filter is sold OEM only for a few years even if made by RACOR, DAVCO, etc....such is the case with the second filter on the 4th gens...RACOR makes it for RAM....

 

[6V92TA]

Mwilson, I agree, and all the major manufacturers of filters have a warranty that says they will pay the cost of repairs directly attributable to a defective filter.

and what do you know, since the subject matter changed to Fram, Fram makes that spinon filter that goes underneath the latest greatest Rams truck... a FRAM PS11937 http://www.fram.com/parts-search/PS...gJxAGhAAgGJ4CMATAOwCcWAdgK4A2dmtDT9jz7brDAukA

 

[Newsa]

Mwilson, I agree, and all the major manufacturers of filters have a warranty that says they will pay the cost of repairs directly attributable to a defective filter.

and what do you know, since the subject matter changed to Fram, Fram makes that spinon filter that goes underneath the latest greatest Rams truck... a FRAM PS11937 http://www.fram.com/parts-search/PS...gJxAGhAAgGJ4CMATAOwCcWAdgK4A2dmtDT9jz7brDAukA

I wonder if Fram actually makes this filter.

It's $20 more than the mopar equivalent on Amazon. Might just be a rebranded Racor?

 

[6V92TA]

Newsa, as far as I know Fram is a manufacturer , not a relabeller.

 

[Newsa]

Newsa, as far as I know Fram is a manufacturer , not a relabeller.

Just sayin. Looks like orange wasn't an option?

 

[gsbrockman]

Can’t wait to start running my Donaldson DBL7349’s soon


(Via removing the intake)

 

[mwilson]

Just sayin. Looks like orange wasn't an option?

View attachment 107408 View attachment 107409

Many of the Fram Fuel Filters / Water Separators are white, not orange...

 

[JR]

Yes, I am stubborn, simply because I am objective and make rational judgement of most things in life based on facts, data, mathematics etc.... anyway ts weird stuff, most of the claims about filters or oils but we all know that Urban Legends dominate in a world where the unvarnished truth is that if you read it on the internet it must be true.

You gotta figure Fram is a big company, most likely ISO9000 compliant and all that gobbledeegook, and warranties their product blah blah blah.. but so does everyone else, after all the orange cans are on the shelf in almost every auto section of every chain you can think of.

But have you ever really analyzed what the tests of filters amount to and what they are really telling you. .?

NIsaacs just posted a link to the typical thorough yet mostly superficial filter comparison.There are dozens if not hundreds of these blog reads available on the internet, some written by some very astute people. One common factor is those tests dwell on the construction or the type of media and lean heavily on personal opinion and visual observation but never actually test the performance of the filter.

It would be great to read a test that tries to mimic what a filter is supposed to do, namely to test the flow rate, burst pressure , pressure at which the bypass opens or measure how many contaminants that filter will hold and somehow mimic what the filter can do but you never find those sorts of performance tests on the internet..

You might as well ask your wife what color filter you should buy

check this filtration test out http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/publications/Documents/1493/20141493.pdf

You can not correlate Frams lack of failures using mass numbers that they pollute the shelves of Wally world and the gen pop with. An oil filter designed for a 1.8L wheezer pushing no more than 4k gvw and oil half as thick in viscosity is a far cry from a true MD engine that flows oil at 16+ gpm. To put that into perspective, the high volume oil pump on my dad's built 427 is spec'd at...a whopping 6 gpm. With thinner weight oil no less and a much "looser" engine .
Comparing apples to apples the test medium is significantly smaller, and failure rates higher. Insignificant in the grand scheme of things, perhaps, but based on the deceitful efficiency reporting alone I'll pass. Many of the lower tier filters, including Wix and Fram do some serious false advertising on efficiency#'s. For instance regarding fuel filters instead of industry standard reporting in beta fram and wix have historically reported in % and at a multipass rating to boot. This is extremely deceptive given multipass ratings were developed for hydraulic/lube systems that are in constant recirc compared to fuel filtration getting one shot at collecting contaminants. Most people see 98.7% efficient (remember the big K&N air filter push and subsequent dusted engines/denied warranty?) And think they are buying a good filter but dont even realize their oem requires beta 1000 @4um (99.9%). 98.7% equates to something like beta 75@10um. Were talking gen 2 filtration standards (mechanical injectors) to gen4/ CR. Thanks but no thanks, I'll stick to my Donaldson and Fleetguard.

 

[mwilson]

Newsa, as far as I know Fram is a manufacturer , not a relabeller.

To a certain degree...on one hand I have received Mack OEM filters by mistake mixed in with my Fram stock orders..That could an issue with Fram's shipping and labeling department at the plant OR they have a hired warehouse that screwed up the shipment.

On the other hand I think many filter companies source certain filters from the big boys, slow moving stuff for example, and so on.
When dealing with Hengst and Mann filters for example it might be cost effective to buy them from a bigger manufacturer and simply paint, box and label them as their own.....

 

[mwilson]

You can not correlate Frams lack of failures using mass numbers that they pollute the shelves of Wally world and the gen pop with. An oil filter designed for a 1.8L wheezer pushing no more than 4k gvw and oil half as thick in viscosity is a far cry from a true MD engine that flows oil at 16+ gpm. To put that into perspective, the high volume oil pump on my dad's built 427 is spec'd at...a whopping 6 gpm. With thinner weight oil no less and a much "looser" engine .
Comparing apples to apples the test medium is significantly smaller, and failure rates higher. Insignificant in the grand scheme of things, perhaps, but based on the deceitful efficiency reporting alone I'll pass. Many of the lower tier filters, including Wix and Fram do some serious false advertising on efficiency#'s. For instance regarding fuel filters instead of industry standard reporting in beta fram and wix have historically reported in % and at a multipass rating to boot. This is extremely deceptive given multipass ratings were developed for hydraulic/lube systems that are in constant recirc compared to fuel filtration getting one shot at collecting contaminants. Most people see 98.7% efficient (remember the big K&N air filter push and subsequent dusted engines/denied warranty?) And think they are buying a good filter but dont even realize their oem requires beta 1000 @4um (99.9%). 98.7% equates to something like beta 75@10um. Were talking gen 2 filtration standards (mechanical injectors) to gen4/ CR. Thanks but no thanks, I'll stick to my Donaldson and Fleetguard.

It's Buyer Beware for sure as with many things. But I don't think Fram is any more dangerous than the filters that Jiffy Lube, Mr. Quick or any other quickie lube joint is gonna' screw on your Chevy 4 banger.

We TDR folk are a more informed group and prefer to run better quality stuff "Just In Case" or to take the best possible care of our equipment....but most of the consumers out there could give a crap one way or the other as long as the mini van is ready to move gobs of kids to the the next T Ball game.

My point is that the Fram filters, like it or not do not give much trouble which astounds me to no end, I kid you not. But I can't argue with what I have seen.

I have bought and sold enough of them to be sure of that over twenty plus years of handling the line.

 

[6V92TA]

You can not correlate Frams lack of failures using mass numbers that they pollute the shelves of Wally world and the gen pop with. An oil filter designed for a 1.8L wheezer pushing no more than 4k gvw and oil half as thick in viscosity is a far cry from a true MD engine that flows oil at 16+ gpm. To put that into perspective, the high volume oil pump on my dad's built 427 is spec'd at...a whopping 6 gpm. With thinner weight oil no less and a much "looser" engine .
Comparing apples to apples the test medium is significantly smaller, and failure rates higher. Insignificant in the grand scheme of things, perhaps, but based on the deceitful efficiency reporting alone I'll pass. Many of the lower tier filters, including Wix and Fram do some serious false advertising on efficiency#'s. For instance regarding fuel filters instead of industry standard reporting in beta fram and wix have historically reported in % and at a multipass rating to boot. This is extremely deceptive given multipass ratings were developed for hydraulic/lube systems that are in constant recirc compared to fuel filtration getting one shot at collecting contaminants. Most people see 98.7% efficient (remember the big K&N air filter push and subsequent dusted engines/denied warranty?) And think they are buying a good filter but dont even realize their oem requires beta 1000 @4um (99.9%). 98.7% equates to something like beta 75@10um. Were talking gen 2 filtration standards (mechanical injectors) to gen4/ CR. Thanks but no thanks, I'll stick to my Donaldson and Fleetguard.

you can stick to whatever you want, but throwing out the claim that something is junk based on misleading internet claims is what I object to.

 

[6V92TA]

My point is that the Fram filters, like it or not do not give much trouble which astounds me to no end, I kid you not. But I can't argue with what I have seen.

I have bought and sold enough of them to be sure of that over twenty plus years of handling the line.

know what you mean. Worked in FLA's largest municipal bus fleet since 1984. one common denominator for supplies is Low Bid. Low Bid oil and low bid filters. seen every brand imaginable in use, seemingly with no ill effects. last night after some discussion about this stuff I went in the stock room and took a survey of all the different filters we have. Fleetgard, Fram, Allison, Donaldson and Luberfiner was last nights survey for a variety of filters, if I go back there and do it again a couple months from now it might include Wix or Hastings. One thing for sure is they don't care what brand it is, just that they get the best deal on what is a throw away part


it seems to work for them.

 

[JR]

Double post

 

[JR]

you can stick to whatever you want, but throwing out the claim that something is junk based on misleading internet claims is what I object to.

Which internet claims, the one I pointed you to when asked with documented pictures of scoffed piston and loose filter media inside the oil filter and bottom end of the engine? Do you have any insight or evidence that the poster made up an elaborate scheme to defame Fram or are you simply defaming him with no evidence? You seek evidence but don't supply any of your own, I said stubborn earlier, contentious seems a better suit.

 

[6V92TA]

JR, there are multiple responses on here from different people.
Is it possible I mixed you up with someone else.

which internet claims?. I don't know if you are the guy who said to do a web search or not, but subjective info via the internet is still subjective info.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Do you have a list of approved filters?

A list of filters that Ram has approved?
Surely if they are going to deny warranty based on which filters are approved, they must have a list of approved filters.

No I don't just repeating what the big boys from Chrysler said at MayMadness a while back. For the price they can be had for it would be unwise to use anything besides RAYCOR, MOPAR and FleetGuard filters.

 

[JR]

You said the failure myth has been unsubstantiated in the last 15 years, I stated there have been a few in the short time I've been here. Here's one of them.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...ed-piston-51-000-miles-Fram-filter-the-cause?

As far as Fram getting their act together, they are literally one of the only filter companies I've heard of that has had multiple recalls in the last 10 years. I don't care to be a guinea pig to a company that sacrifices quality to improve on their bottom line, wether they make it right in the long run or not. Failures and recalls aside I would not run them based on their filter efficiency reportings alone. Their publishings are deceitful at best.

The most recent recall I'm aware of from last year
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjACegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw1yQp-QhakJHOFCSIw7ugFp

Another recall 2007

https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums...warning-fram-oil-filter-recall-framrecall.pdf

And another from 2013.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...3B3MQFghEMAk&usg=AOvVaw0g9JsA5VStyUf-hh1Um0F6

I can keep posting if you like but I think you get my drift.

 

[6V92TA]

JR, while those stories are common, are they reliable,verifiable and provable? Are they conducted by 3rd parties in a labrotary. Basically they are anecdotal evidence at best.

.

did you look for other brands and Recalls... some are much newer than 2007. for instance
More Than 63,000 Fleetguard Fuel Filters Recalled
September 22, 2014 • by Evan Lockridge https://www.truckinginfo.com/125490/more-than-63-000-fleetguard-fuel-filters-recalled

Approximately 42,000 of these filters were distributed as replacement filters in the aftermarket. About 21,600 were installed in Cummins ISB engines built between April 28 and July 9 and ISL engines built from April 30 to July 8.

Up to 25% of the filters are believed to contain this defect, according to Cummins


l

 

[JR]

lets quote him right here. QUOTE " we look them over much closer i believe they are remnants or scrap from a OIL FILTER GASKETQUOTE

And I suppose he also made up the bit about Fram reimbursing him almost $7k. I'll ask you again, do you have evidence he's defaming Fram or are you simply defaming an individual with no evidence?

The recalls I posted are directly from Fram/Honeywell website. What is the reason for a recall on a oil or fuel filter? To improve the paint job? Or perhaps to prevent a catastrophic failure from happening to anymore people than has already been screwed by an inferior filter. Let me clue you in on a little something. That's not hearsay, it's not internet myth. It is FACT . Straight from Fram . I'm sorry you can't comprehend the way a recall works.